c/MurderedByJillStein

Sadly not just in the USA. Getting fucked everywhere

God the Overton Window in the US is so fucked lmao

I have low expectations and still I was surprised by Kamala “FUCK YOU I LOVE FRACKING” Harris’ showing during the debate

i've been saying, these days in western capitalist countries being to the left of mussolini is considered a threat to the system.

They do actually have a shot at winning though.

As much as people like Claudia are 100x better, the Green's have over 270 possible electoral votes

AOC wouldn't be shit-stirring (against a party that she once campaigned for) unless shit was really hitting the fan for the dems.

The problem with the Overton window argument is that democrats move right even when they win

She has to do her duty of shitting on anyone that might take votes from Blue Team

sending attack dogs to maul your opponent

All of AOC attemps at dunking on her just helping her by making her and her policies more well known and all Jill has been doing is saying "ok but you support genocide" which keeps pissing her off

I'm gonna voooooote

WIsh I could go back to 2015 just for grocery shopping tbh

I’m so grateful it’s only one 27 for me 🙏

I don't want to do the math on how much I've donated but I can tell you now its been more than $27.

My then girlfriend convinced me to join her in donating hundreds to candidates like Bernie, AOC, and other smaller, local people. We even bought cringe merch. I never wore it, even while they were still in our good graces.

I was always very skeptical of them but thought and hoped maybe I would be proven wrong, and if it went well then it would very much be worth it. It was my first time but I'll never donate to these social fascist campaigns again.

I dunno, I think she's a real go-getter of a sellout and a comprador. She puts in the extra hours and takes initiative on ways to betray and backstab the movement she sprang from. She's a dedicated student of historic sheepdogs and an innovative disruptor in the field of movement breaking.

Dems must be scared a lot of the poll numbers in swing states if they decided to send one of their most known member to pick a twitter fight with jill stein

We need to consider the power dynamics she's under.

AOC is doing what the unions wanted her to.

Power dynamics

>(extremely well-adjusted)

> poster

pick one

Entryism works perfectly well, though: it advances your personal brand, nullifies energy that would otherwise go into building dual power, and gets you a successful career of perpetually failing upwards until you become Nancy Pelosi.

Entryism works (for the people who get in and reap the benefits of a seat in congress)

i dont give a shit if AOC 'wins' if "gaining power" means stooging for imperialism. also, i'm not a green by any measure but they do put resources into local elections, sometimes extremely local like schoolboards and selectboards, but there are only a few states where you can run as a green and not be immediately ritually slaughtered by democrats and republicans, sometimes in concert. there's really no critique of them that you can't make of any electoralist party in the US but if youre going to expend the effort to vote there's no material reason not to vote for any greens down ballot over democrats.

Say what you will about AOC or the DSA (I'm sure there is plenty of valid criticism), but at least they win and are executing on a plan to gain power.

Why is this a good thing? The Nazis apparently knew how to gain power. Should I support them?

What's the point of congratulating AOC on getting elected if she supports genocide? If you want that, you can vote for the other two parties anyways.

but at least they win

Yes, we know that the USian uniparty wins elections. Why did you put 'at least' there, as if that's somehow a good thing?

Say what you will about AOC or the DSA (I'm sure there is plenty of valid criticism), but at least they win and are executing on a plan to gain power.

Say what you will about the national socialists but at least they win and are executing on a plan to gain power. Also lmao at AOC and DSA in the same sentence in 2024

I dont see how you can see entrism in a neoliberal party guilty of supporting genocide as a winning strategy, the squad got reduced by 2 member this year and will probably drop more, the DSA has lost like 30k members from their peak and its still bleeding members, The dems have become even more right wing copying policies from trump

As small as the greens or the psl are they have seen more success than the dsa

Stein is mostly a gadfly, but gadflies get attention. The dems have no incentive to court leftist votes if they assume we're too small to make an impact or we'll fall in line no matter what they say. The possibility of the Green party becoming viable is one way to demonstrate that that isn't true. I prefer PSL as well, but it looks like the Greens are marginally better known and currently ahead in ballot access.

As for AOC and the DSA, the latter rescinded its endorsement of the former, so I don't think you can treat them as associated. As for why that endorsement was rescinded, it was because AOC got that power and then refused to use it to advance the DSA's objectives. She executed on a plan to gain power, sure, but she's not putting that power to good use, so I don't know what the lesson is there. It's easier to get power if you submit to the establishment?

but at least they win and are executing on a plan to gain power

Yeah, gaining power in service of genocide and the persecution of immigrants

But I don't really see any material reason to donate or promote the Greens.

Anything that reduces the power and vote share of the two parties is a material benefit for the working class, even a shitty green party getting a slightly larger share of the vote falls squarely under the harm reduction rubric left libs love to chirp about

Death by a thousand cuts is the best the western left can hope for, and every cut counts

The theory of voting third party is very simple:

Imagine politicians are all grifters, who want to get power and/or parlay revolving door through some deal making inside congress (imagine). If one party ideologically closest to you forces you to eat shit via spoiling votes, you either have to make policy deals or spend your days fighting battles with them (and not making deals to get board membership at some ngo).

The Greens haven't gotten a president but they absolutely do campaign and win at the local level. And PSL isn't on the ballot everywhere so they're the next best option. https://www.gpelections.org/greens-in-office/

Aoc doesn't really build off dsa anymore to be fair. Dsa can't even run it's own budget right. They provided a little extra volunteer power for bernie campaign got a huge influx of people and have been in decline since he dropped out of running for Prez. Dsa is a dead end.

Greens are a waste of time though yes.

Jill Stien is only doing what the Union wanted her to do

Back in the day, the Greens could win small seats and get some good stuff through on a State level. They do seem to have faded from public consciousness after the Bush admin, though.