Zelenskyy straight-up said Ukraine is going to lose if Congress doesn't send more aid
Zelenskyy straight-up said Ukraine is going to lose if Congress doesn't send more aid
Yes, no shit. That was the outlook from day 1.
The Russian Army is largely represented as a bunch of baffoons in the Western media, but it's still one of the 3 largest armies in the world. Ukraine cannot hold their lines indefinitely, the only way to "win" against an opponent that has multiple times your materiel available is guerilla.
Then guerilla it is!
There's no win for humanity through war against an opponent that has thousand of nukes. If one of the nuclear reactors in the region would had been seriously damaged you would be curse every cent that went into fueling this war. We are walking on a thin line already.
It is a bad idea to trust and rely on Ameeica. Some Afgans learned this lesson in 2021, the same is happening to Ukraine now.
Ukraine rely on a lot more than just the USA. But what else can they do? It's either that or they get annexed.
Their are a small country versus a world power.
The region doesn't rely on the US, the post-2014 fascist government that doesn't care about the wishes of eastern Ukrainians does.
There wasn't a problem here until the US-backed coup in 2014 and subsequent killing of eastern Ukrainians and Crimeans (if you're wondering why Crimeans overwhelmingly support Russia) by the coup gov for resisting, which also doesn't respect the Minsk agreements to stay neutral.
People in this thread clearly don't understand what the implications are. There is a very clear danger of war on the European continent that will involve NATO and by proxy the US. Aid for Ukraine is the absolute cheapest option. Europe is not going to just let Ukraine fall and will ramp up their involvement. We already have France willing to send troops.
You don't understand that the only danger of further war is again from US/NATO. Europe is going to let Ukraine fall because it has no choice. France is a laughing stock. Even what they threatened to send could do nothing.
Comment from the Torygrapgh readership:
@LarkinDePark @Alsjemenou because appeasement totally works with dictators and lebensraum
Well not very much with that speakerguy in the house.
Ok genocidaire
Aid for Ukraine is the absolute cheapest option
One who consider a proxy war where thousand people die and a country get destroyed the "cheapest option" tells you how much they are in bad faith. For politicians your life is indeed cheap and something they can trash away for profits
This is a delicate situation. If a NATO country is sending troops to Ukraine, it will escalate the war into a full blown world war.
We know what happened in both world wars, so there is no good answers here.
So no aid to Ukraine and show Russia that it can indeed start wars where thousands die and destroy countries, without negative consequences?
I'm not talking about just money. Of course in current capitalist society we analyse through the lens of finances. But obviously the cost of war includes the loss of human life. And of course some people will manage to profit financially from war. This isn't a revolutionary thought.
What I mean is that due to the obligation of being a NATO member, there is no way around having to join war in the EU. Actual boots on the ground, full blown, war machine goes choo-choo war. That costs many hundreds or even thousands of American lives. And yes, billions a day.
If you don't want that, then having Putin lose in Ukraine in key. It's key because it will diminish his political backing in Russia.
But Amarica bad, hypercapitalist dictator good.
The free world loses when Russia wins.
It's pretty much an invitation to China to do the same in Taiwan and an invitation for Russia to start more wars in eastern Europe.....
Helping Ukraine costs money. Not helping Ukraine costs even more.
"free world" has the same weight here as "state's rights"
Downvote and move on, but just like the American genocide in Iraq, you will realize I'm right in ~20 years
The free world loses when Russia wins.
I'd pay good money to watch the Anglos crash and burn tbh. Like, PPV amounts of money. At this point it might be the only way to avert climate collapse; if possible at all, and I have no material reason to want to see you propagate or prosper. Die faster; and do a backflip on your way down.
K
The free world 😂 Okay boomer 🇺🇸 🦅
You mean the "free world" that has Assange, Pablo González and lots of other journalists jailed? The same free world that has destroyed every country that didn't fall in line with US interests?
Russia is way worse. I'm in Hungary, and our government tries everything to scrub information about stuff they don't like, all while putting Project 2025-tier evil stuff into our constitution, meaning it could be pretty much be undone by an armed rebellion, which will very unlikely thanks to what I call "weaponized doomerism" (pushing people into inaction via depression, crushed protests, and underfunded health care system), and "political gaslighting" (basically the method behind "you'll be more conservative as you get older").
China is already bullying the Philippines too out of our own territorial waters, and they have already caused severe injuries to our countrymen. They literally want an entire sea to themselves and leave us with none. Just look at their nine dash line.
Edit: Here's their nine-dash-line, they even want Malaysia's sea, which is a long way away from chinese mainland, while they want seas close to the land territories of so many SEA nations.
wait, you are not being ironical?
how the fuck do you manage to claim that the west is the free world™ while it is the empire to blame for the largest amount of worldwide suffering in the second half of the twentieth century? It is responsible for countless invasions, sanction regimes and assassinations with the goal of subjugating foreign nations, as well as courting nazis post ww2, like for example people like klaus barbie or wernher von braun, as well as the entire early government of the frg.
your fantasizing about a supposed military threat from the prc to taiwan and from russia to the rest of europe is nothing but pure projection, since you westoids apparently cant imagine someone acting from a different motivation than your own. the prc has time and time again stated that it prefers a peaceful resolution to the taiwan conflict and the province has never officially declared any grade of independence from the mainland, simply being under a different government, the roc.
russia on the other hand has absolutely no reason to start any military conflicts in western europe, something you would know, if you would even try to understand the lead up to the current situation.
your last sentence honestly just sounds like a thinly veiled blood for the blood god.
FWIW, there are plenty of politicians in Europe who disagree with you, it's not an American take, here's a quote from Lithuania's PM:
"the outcome of this fight in Ukraine is crucial for Europe."
"If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, then whatever happens next is Europe's problem at large," she said. https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-not-stopped-in-ukraine-all-europe-problem-lithuania-pm-2024-3?op=1
Fuck off with your Putin propaganda.
China doesn't pose a threat to Taiwan? JFC China disagrees with you
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."
Without the support of Congress, it will be "difficult" for Ukraine to win, "even to stay," Zelenskyy said in a video meeting with fundraising supporters, including Mark Hamill and billionaire Richard Branson.
Nightmare blunt rotation
Anyway, wow! You mean every time Russia was said to be slowing down or taking unsustainable levels of casualties wasn't entirely true? Wow!
I think the weakness of Ukraine is also narrative.
Whatever narrative they push, it’s completely unrelated to the truth.
When they wanted western sympathy and when the western funds were rolling, it was the plucky tractor brigade killing Russians at $1.40 a kill.
Now that they aren’t getting another aid package, the front lines are about to collapse and Russia will be in Warsaw by summer.
It’s all bullshit. As in it’s unrelated to the truth. The truth has no relationship to what Zelenskyy says.
The fact Ukraine is starting to push an imminent collapse narrative is a key factor in me believing collapse is not in fact imminent.
You are right, you can't use only information Ukraine or Russia provides. But it probably is the case that Ukraine was stomping Russia for pennies on the dollar earlier in the war. However, Russia is not a static force. They learn and change their tactics, and Russia spends more resources now than they did earlier.
It would be a grave mistake to stop aid to Ukraine while they are still willing and able to fight.
That was propaganda. Without it people would say "why wasting money if they will lose anyway?"
Definately NOT proxy cannon fodder
NATO is seeking to take control of decision-making powers on future aid packages — normally led by the US — in an effort to limit the impact of a potential second Donald Trump presidency on the ongoing conflict.
This is wild. It's bad enough that the US president has the power to start wars wherever he wants with no congressional approval. But now they're trying to make it so that the only people with the authority to withdraw from a conflict are unelected NATO officials accountable to no one.
Dronies will support this, because they love endless war across the globe and want to remove any potential for popular support to achieve peace.
And who's gonna die this time
"Lol", said the red white and blue scorpion. "Lmao".
I was wondering how the media was going to explain the collapse in Ukraine when it finally becomes impossible to hide it, and now we know. The whole thing is going to be blamed on republicans holding up money in congress, as if pouring another 61 billion after all the untold billions that were already poured into this was going to make any difference. The fact that people genuinely believe this is frankly depressing. It shows just how utterly credulous and mentally deficient western public is.
Lose away bozo, you got played
will the neonazis kill him right away or wait til he has been living in Miami for awhile?
My money's on 'on the airstrip trying to flee'.
Countries will get fed up of sending aid to Ukraine long before Russia decides to return its annexed territories. We're already seeing signs of that.
If NATO isn't willing to go in and force the Russians out themselves, I fail to see how this war is anything but a net gain for Russia. They will just sit back and let their "new territories" become more and more Russified.
To me, the aid is just a delaying tactic to allow Ukraine to continue fighting until the west can figure out a way to accept that Ukraine has lost its territories without losing face.
It's a shit show, but I don't share the optimism that a lot of people have for a Ukrainian victory. It's like a game of chess, and it's currently Ukraine/NATOs turn, because the Russians are already dug in.
I mean yeah, the Russian Federation has clearly won this one
They will just sit back and let their "new territories" become more and more Russified.
The majority people who live there and have always lived there are Russian
It's like a game of chess,
No it really isn't. Its a proxy war forced by US aggression (2014 coup and NATO encirlement). The US achieved its primary goals - 1) to stop its European vassals (primarily Germany) from gaining energy independence through trade with the Russian Federation and get them back in line 2) to sell old weapon stocks/war profiteering for defense industry and make room for new weapons stores/more profits for defense industry.
The fact they've met these goals is the main reason why funding will stop, because there is no reason to fund Ukraine anymore. The US has won - Ukraine was always going to lose in this scenario.
Over 100k dead Russians isn't really a "net victory" regardless of territory gained
Ukraine=Palestine. Noone will fight for ir and will get robbed by the powerful bandit, Israel (Rússia).
Except that US politicians pretend it's the opposite
Ukraine=Palestine and Israel=Russia is peak Marvel brain.
It’s absolutely absurd to compare the Western settler colony of Israel’s “relationship” with Palestine to the Russia’s relationship with Ukraine. Israel, since its inception, has been oriented towards the subjugation, displacement, and slaughter of Palestinians as a whole, whereas Russia is responding to Western-backed Nazi aggressors. Investigate Operation Aerodynamic, NATO’s Operation Gladio, the US and Nazi role in the 2014 coup, hell what do you mean nobody will fight for Ukraine? The CIA have trained soldiers and there has been billions sent in aid by the US.
Donbas = Palestine if Palestine had a powerful friend to kick Israel out of Gaza.
Eat shit
Ukraine is already losing and unless something crazy happens they will lose.
That's why Congress doesn't want to send more aid.
No reason to let the Russians capture more patriot batteries...
Republicans are good buddies with Putin. If Trump would have been in power, he would have been selling weapons for the Russians, then play along with the whole "Ukrainians are actually Russians" stuff of Putin.
Can't wait until this shit is over so that all the shit-for-brains boomers finally take down all their stupid flags.
The modern American fascist is too soft to hear dissenting opinions.
Sweet as lemon poundcake and softer than corduroy
Go back to Reddit and have your opinions fed to you by billion dollar corporations
Folks, Holden Caulfield thinks we’re phonies. Mission failed; we’ll get ’em next time.
Copypasta from https://lemmy.ml/comment/9279492
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You could easily achive your goal by going back to reddit, there's nothing wrong with it. Seems like federated international community hosted by enthusiasts is just not your cup of tea. Centralized platform which goes to IPO would be able to provide you with echo chamber that you seek for.
Which Congress?
Time to end the war and give peace a chance.
Yeah, giving the five bordering regions of Russia to Ukraine, including Belgorod would be the best compensation.
Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people, this attitude you and the rest of the West hold has lead them to utter disaster.
If you could back it up with actual military success, it’d be reasonable.
But instead, all of Europe and the US is about to lose to post Soviet Russia, and Ukraine has paid the price.
Yeah, that tends to happen when you get you provoke a war then get your shit stomped. All this could have been avoided if the West kept their dick out of the former Eastern Bloc over the last couple decades, but they didn't, and this is where we ended up. We fucked up their country, and they get to pay the consequences for our actions.
The "I'm not hitting you! I'm not hitting you! Look! I'm not hitting you, nyah nyah!... mmMMMMOOOOOMMMMMMMM HE HIT ME! HE STARTED IT!" defense doesn't work if you're a fucking country.
I thought that’s what Russians/Republicans were banking on?
Well that sucks.
It doesn't suck. Well, it does for the west.
Guessing none of the other nations are doing anything either
Straight up?
Ukraine is going to lose with aid, all giving them more money does is allow them to not negotiate for longer.
If you think Ukraine won't muster a guerilla resistance fierce enough to make France blush you haven't been paying attention.
What makes you think their gonna start now after it's been going for more than two years and there even having trouble conscripting in western Ukraine ?
If they've ran out of volunteers in the more nationalist west how are they going to find them in the occupied territories where patriotism to Ukraine has always been lower?
It's not like Russia haven't dealt with those before...
That isnt really relevant because Russia would get what they are looking for in the end no matter how much of a resistance there is. All they need to do is finish off their army, and not allow a new government to form and they have achieved their goal.
Negotiate what? If they would consent to their genocide?
Sure thing!
UkraineUnited States is going to lose if Congress doesn't send more aidThe fact that everyone understands that the war in Ukraine is based on American backing means that it's a proxy war between the US and Russia.
$773 billion dollars last year spent on fighting "proxy" wars around the world (and if you count the spying, domestically).
The only one that America has actual moral footing to get behind is the only one we are pulling punches on.
Hardly the first time. I'd argue the US made the same mistake in Afghanistan in 2003, diverting resources to Iraq because Bush Jr. had such a hard-on for Saddam.
mm, delicious bait! 😋 go on then, which proxy war does the US have "actual moral footing" to get behind?
lose what? the control of another country?
Control over Europe. Russia is funding far-right politicians in Europe.