Turns out, far-right shitheads are still far-right shitheads
Turns out, far-right shitheads are still far-right shitheads
232 comments
-
-
Its warcriminals fighting warcriminals, change my mind.
-
The only thing I can say is that both have no problem with harming combatants and civilians alike, but one side is disproportionately killing civilians with the resources at their disposal (Israel) just because they can.
I'm not convinced that Hamas wouldn't do the same if the tables were turned, but one side needs to be better if we're ever to see an end to this conflict.
-
Yeah. Hamas doesn't have any moral high ground, but the one that needs to be restrained at this moment in time is Israel.
-
I always thought the IDF was supposed to be super skilled and tactical. I expected surgical strikes to take out terrorists and minimize civilian casualties. They had a reputation for strength.
Turns out they're either incompetent or they're genocidal or both. Hint: both.
-
We can guess they would, as they are backed by iran, who has declared they want to wipe Israel off the map.
(Not Zion posting, Israel is commiting genocide, just saying Hamas is no better, just less capable)
-
Ehh, Hamas would have killed just as many if not far more civilians by now if Israel didn’t have such good defenses with things like the iron dome.
-
-
Yeah, all those children murdered so that their parents homes can be stolen are war criminals...
-
-
Im talking about hammas and the Israeli military, who are you talking about? I dont quite get you
-
-
-
Who has ever said they're communists?
-
John Strawman
-
Gotta keep that connection between violence and communism alive or people may start to think it's not true.
-
-
There are fringe far-left/tankies who support Hamas. They think Hamas=Palestinians. The far-left think they know enough about politics in the Israel-Palestine conflict when they have not even heard of the more moderate Palestinian Liberation Organisation who are worthy of more support for the Palestinian struggle. But instead, the far left loonies support terrorist acts by Hamas believing taking foreigners as hostages-- who mostly have no horse to bet in the fight between Palestine and Israel-- then abusing and raping them is justified and somehow think that will garner support for the struggle for freedom by Palestinians.
Stupid be stupid I guess. Though luckily, these pro-Hamas, far left nutjobs are on the fringe and minority.
-
-
Yeah and so is Israel. I don't support either, I support Palestinians.
-
I agree.
-
Very telling to (rightfully) say "both sides are bad" but not say "I support civilians on both sides". You know you can condemn a far right regime but still show solidarity with that country's population, right?
-
I mean I said Israel, not Israelis, that was the hint.
-
Now that the terrorist attack is behind them, Isreali citizens arent currently being bombed the shit out of and active warzoned. Are they at risk of future terrorist attacks? Yes, but CURRENTLY its Palestinian citizens who are at a FAR higher risk
Edit: Lmao, apparently Tankies can see and reply to me even if I cant see them. I assume this is because I havent blocked them personally, but instance blocked Hexbear
Clarification to my Edit: Tankies if you are confused why Im insulting you even though you think I'm on the same side as you, Hamas can go fuck itself. Just like Isreal doesnt represent all Isreali citizens, neither does Hamas represent Palestinians. Isreal and Hamas can go fuck themselves, they are both pretty awful. I feel for Palestinians and consider them the most fucked over in this ordeal, but what Hamas did was VILE, even if what Isreal is doing in response is even more so
-
How many Israeli schools and hospitals are being bombed right now?
-
Yeah the fact that they only said they support Palestinians was pretty obvious what they meant. This smells, to me, like racism pretending to be a fair and balanced take on the situation.
-
-
-
The only people on Hamas' side are Netanyahu, the former Muslim Brotherhood, and Iran who all worked hard to keep Hamas well funded and in a position of authority. The important thing is to side with Palestine, not with Hamas.
-
Hamas is indisputably the enemy, the issue is that the tactics Israel uses to eliminate them also cause more civilian damage than should ever be acceptable. Often they target hospitals and schools where Hamas activity isn't even confirmed, seemingly just to cripple infrastructure and kill Palestinians.
-
"The enemy" of who? If a group is elevated to being an enemy due to the killing of civilians, the Israel government would easily meet that standard before Hamas.
-
The enemy of a fair and peaceful life for the innocent. Both Hamas and Israel have made it clear that they want conquest, not peace.
Israel is also the enemy. The enemy of our enemy should not always be our friend
-
-
Hamas is indisputably the enemy
Israel campaign of genocide and conquest
🤔
-
Yeah, they're both irredeemable. The victims are the civilians, everyone else involved is a perpetrator.
-
Sometimes it's not as simple as the good guys versus the bad guys. Just because one side is bad doesn't mean everyone on the other side is good. There are multiple villains in this conflict and a lot of civilians suffering because of them.
-
Just because one side is bad doesn't mean the other side is good. They can both be different flavors of bad. Just because hamas is bad doesn't justify a genocide like Israel seems to think either.
-
Do you need a diagram?
-
-
who thought hamas was communist?
-
Communist (noun)
- Anybody who trying to make Conservatives feel remotely guilty for being totally chill with a lot of people starving, being unhoused in unsanitary conditions and being denying life saving medical care because they are poor, foreign or inconvenient.
- Authoritarian bogeyman who will destroy civilization via terrorism
- Not a Republican
By the Conservative rubric of identifying communists we're pretty much all weilding a hammer and sickle.
-
Loons, mostly. There's been a multi-talk page dispute on Wiki, for example, over internet twits removing a sourced 'anti-communist' descriptor from the Hamas page that had been there for a while, because they want to believe that Hamas is aligned with them so very terribly badly.
-
How is the political stance of Hamas relevant?
It's a terrorist group defending their country from an invasion. Even North Korea has the right to defend their land. Even if I don't agree with the way they manage their country, it's their country.
Their political stance is totally irrelevant to me.
For me the issue is that Hamas already lost, and Israel is violating every single human right until Palestinians are exterminated using Hamas as an excuse.
Hamas needs to stop fighting, they are a piece of shit because they aren't giving up. Israel has always been a piece of shit. The end.
-
There are communist groups that work with Hamas, so that may have been removed because it doesn't seem accurate.
-
-
-
I don't disagree with this, but Hamas was created by Israel, and now Israel is bombing all of Gaza because of Hamas. It really seems like Israel has been planning this genocide for a loooong time.
-
“Every society has the criminals it deserves.”
- Emma Goldman
Can’t blame anyone for retaliating against the shit conditions they’ve been put in.
-
In the same vein, Israel's right-wing regime was in no small part created by Islamist hostilities towards Israel and Jewish people from the very start
-
This has been an incredibly slow genocide for decades
-
Well yes, they are well versed in history, right-wing politicians in Israel view the conflict on a biblical time scale and believe they are regaining their holy land. They are doing it as carefully and deliberately as they can, which is difficult and time consuming because they are supported by the West who mostly doesn't want them to commit genocide. Without the support of the West, Israel would be much more likely to be defeated by the numerous enemies that surround them.
-
-
-
But you see, in a dialectical analysis, far-right terrorists like Hamas serve a progressive role by not being the US, and therefore deserve critical support by leftists who are definitely not crypto-fascists. —Marxist-Leninists
-
I see you've met Lemmygrad.
-
-
I don't know why it's so hard for certain people to understand that sometimes (actual most of the time), all sides are the bad guys.
-
Maybe, there are more sides than just the people with guns and bombs.
-
Sounds like those people need to pick a side or risk getting gunned down or bombed.
-
-
Because some people need there to be someone they can root for, especially if the other side is aligned with other people they don't like.
-
The Nazis and the Allies. Both the bad guys. Stupid Allies bombing Dresden.
-
-
Note: This is sure as shit not meant to downplay or deny Israel's ongoing genocide. Only to point out the absurdity of some online leftists in simping for Hamas and expressing disbelief that far-right theocrats with a history of committing terrible crimes would commit terrible crimes.
-
Hey @Satelllliiiiiiiteeee what part of this do you disagree with?
-
-
It's incredible that this meme has a reason to exist, that there truly are people who refuse to accept the obvious, that Hamas is an extreme radical organization that feeds on hatred and is more than willing to use and abuse their own population as cannon fodder, for martyrdom-propaganda purposes.
-
Yep, and that the existence of Hamas doesn't give Israel the right to Genocide anyone. It seems really simple on the surface, but fucking Christ do humans love their team sports analogs.
"If you don't full-throated support Israel, you're antisemitic and must love Hamas"
I actually hate both, because both are doing extreme harm, but Israel is on a different level and actively supports Hamas because they're useful opposition. Hamas is a symptom of the oppression that Israel has instituted.
-
I hate that it's even necessary to make a personal qualification on the good-ness/bad-ness of either group.
I shouldn't have to say "I hate both", I would like to simply observe - "The current conflict is - in part - a result of decades of systemic oppression and disenfranchisement on the basis of religious nationalism" - without someone jumping down my throat to accuse me of antisemitism or of supporting a terrorist group.
-
-
People tend to assign a good side and a bad side to conflicts. Because the IDF is essentially committing genocide to attack Hamas, people who don't know much about Hamas are labeling Hamas the good side.
In reality Hamas and the IDF are both pretty monstrous and civilians are suffering as a result of both their actions, but since "Palestinian civilian" isn't a fun team name they get lumped in with Hamas by ignorant people -_-
-
They aren't "committing genocide to attack Hamas", they have propped up Hamas for years specifically so they can bomb average people more and enact genocidal policies, in their ultimate goal of the destruction of Palestine. Right-wing Israeli politicians have been pretty clear about that for decades. Hamas isn't alone on their side, and Israel isn't targeting them specifically, they are just the largest of several militant groups fighting against Israel.
-
-
For me is totaly credible, reality has a lot of nuances and it is complex to understand. If ppl still votes for trumps, bolsonaros and le pens how would you find incredible they can't understand shit about one of the most complex conflics of the last century?
-
-
Yeah maybe but Netanyahu put Hamas in power, against recommendations, and blatantly obvious issues. It had to be purposeful so he had a target that "deserved" to be bombed, so the campaign for the last 70 years could speed up.
-
For those doubting this, IDF leadership have admitted to this, and Arafat confirmed it.
-
-
That part supporters of either group fail at is that neither Hamas or the Israeli government are worthy of support or in the right. One behaves worse than the other at the moment. But there can never be peace with those two in power. It's a really fucked situation and my heart really hurts for the people caught in the crossfire of it all.
-
It seems that netanyahu bolstered hamas for years for political gain, and squashing any moderate palestinian activists, teachers or politicians. Like jailing them. What happened was really predictable.
And both of them are getting what they want, to be the kings of ashes.
-
-
Doesn't justify the bombing of hospitals and civilians. Nobody likes Hamas but they're the result of Israel's illegal annexation of Palestinian territories and subsequent genocide.
What do you think the Palestinians who had their house and families expropriated, blown up and/or resettled by an Apartheid State will do? Not like/join the guys who want to get rid of Israel more?
Before Israel's bombing campaign, Hamas wasn't very popular among Palestinians, now however I assume Israel gave Hamas way more recruits.
-
Before Israel’s bombing campaign, Hamas wasn’t very popular among Palestinians,
That's not true in the least.
-
Not just not true. A deliberate lie.
-
The state of Israel is older than Hamas and Israel bombing Palestinians started before 7th of October 2023. I think the establishment of Hamas in 1987 and rising popularity till they got elected on Gaza in 2007 can be fairly attributed to Israel's bombing, displacement and apartheid rule of civilians.
-
-
Same goes the other way as well. The popularity of Netanyahu in Israel would also be much lower if he couldn't use Hamas terror attacks to justify the need for a "strong leader".
-
Last I checked his popularity ain't doing so well.
Also may I remind you that the genocide of the Palestinians has been ongoing for far longer than the 7th of October and far precedes Netanyahu's government. In fact it even precedes hamas.
-
-
-
Weird, didn't know that people thought well of Hamas...
I kind of hate this meme format though because it's normally used to erect straw men, in my experience.
-
American conservatives think that any criticism of Netanyahu's genocide is actually support for Hamas.
Some of these conservatives are Republicans.
-
Not even just American conservatives, western conservatives, liberals (often times) and a good portion of Germans from all across the political spectrum that I had the displeasure of meeting seem to think that even remotely suggesting that perhaps bombing civilians is bad even when Israel does it means you're an antisemitic hamas supporter
-
-
Weird, didn’t know that people thought well of Hamas…
According to the NYTimes, people on /r/LateStageCapitalism are calling Oct. 7 a false flag. I've seen Hamas apologetics several times here. If having bad takes generated heat, you could build a Dyson sphere around tankies.
-
Weird, didn’t know that people thought well of Hamas…
Strange folk. "October 7th was a false flag, Hamas would never perform atrocities, and if they did, they were justified, there are no civilians in the Zionist settler state" sort of things. I can dig up a few if you're really skeptical, but honestly each time I read one I take a little SAN hit.
-
Those people certainly exist but the opposite is far more numerous and vocal in positions of power, making all the anger directed towards "Hamas defenders" seem misplaced.
It's like watching a cat bite a bear and start fighting, destroying everything around them, and getting angry at the few people defending the cat while most people are either cheering on the bear or trying to stop the fighting.
-
-
The PPP are the Communist freedom fighters and Israel has funded Hamas for years to stop the PPP from coming into power. It's easier to fight radical fundamentalists than it is to fight socialists.
-
It's easier to fight radical fundamentalists than it is to fight socialists.
Excuse me, what?
-
Radical fundamentalists, I believe they're saying, make more palatable enemies. Same essential reason why Hamas was funded by Israel to split Palestinian support from Fatah - Fatah, as a secular and nominally leftist organization drew some international sympathy - Hamas, much less.
The other side of the coin is that Hamas was able to rise in the first place because Fatah had become incredibly corrupt and inept.
-
Because fighting fundamentalists gives you more international sympathy and support.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
It was also to prevent there being a unified Palestinian government by driving a wedge between the west bank and Gaza.
-
In 1982, a prominent Israeli strategic analyst, Avner Yaniv, coined the term “Palestinian peace offensive” to describe the risk that Palestinians would become too moderate politically and Israel would be forced to make concessions.
He urged using the "fiercest military pressures" against the PLO in Lebanon to undermine Palestinian moderates and make the PLO more hardline in order "to halt its rise to political respectability".
https://www.newarab.com/analysis/why-israel-has-strategic-interest-escalating-violence
-
-
-
Shit the communists I know saw this coming a mile away and were some of the first trying to make sure people understood Hamas is a right wing theocratic movement.
-
Tbf, here in Germany for example there's still a sizable communist movement calling Hamas anti-colonialist freedom fighters. Maybe most of them aren't seeing them as communists, but they definitely see them as left-wing and deserving of left-wing support
-
Well "anti colonialist" and "freedom fighter" do not a communist make.
Though I can see how a connection could be made that the force fighting an apartheid settler colonial power aligns with anti apartheid anti colonial sentiment.
But critical support is kind of a nuanced thing that usually isn't understood well or interpreted charitably. It often follows the same logic of picking the lesser of two evils as a winning electoral strategy. Which means people end up supporting objectively bad things because they see it defeating an objectively worse thing.
-
being anti-colonial is not the same thing as being left wing? nor is being left wing a pre-requisite of receiving left wing support.
-
This is also the prevailing opinion of tankies on Lemmy. I've seen more than a handful of people on here saying they want to "write in Hamas" for the US election.
-
-
-
I don't know what to do with this information
-
Simply put, both sides of the conflict fucking suck, which is what makes it a very difficult conflict to resolve.
-
I think a big part of the problem is that while Hamas are fucken evil, they were a tool used by Israel to destroy the Palestinian people. Hamas wouldn't still exist if Israel didn't want them to https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12?r=US&IR=T
Israel has always had the goal of killing everyone in Palestine. Feed some rockets through to Hamas so they will be fired at them, send in an incredibly well funded military to level a few block (mostly with US taxpayer money), and use that military to protect the "settlers" who will just take the land.
The only change is they have expedited the process.
-
But Hamas isn't the entire side, there are numerous militant groups and average Palestinians fighting against the IDF. It's a little unfair to say "both sides suck" when one group is using whatever small arms and improvised weapons they have, suffering many thousands of civilian deaths trying to prevent the annihilation of their people, while the other side is fighting to take more territory and has the support of the entire West, with drones, airstrikes, fighter jets and the like.
-
Sure, the civilian deaths that started AFTER occupants of Gaza raided across the border, killed a bunch of civilians themselves, and took hostages back with them.
-
-
-
That guy started searching for the scroll in 2002.
-
Daily reminder that the word terrorism was only coined to prevent the obvious escalation when non violent protests are either ignored or put down violently.
When you've tried peaceful protest and nothing changes you only have one option left.
-
Everyone who fights against the genocidal state of Israel is by definition a freedom fighter.
The brain rot here is something else.
Ever heard of the enemy of my enemy being my friend? You may disagree but it's a valid position to take.
-
The US took that position, and we got the Taliban. Yay!
-
People don’t like being invaded and join whoever promises to fight the invaders. That’s enemy of my enemy from their perspective.
-
-
-
"We regret the deaths and injuries to civilians arising from armed actions. We apologize to the next-of-kin for the suffering and hurt," said a statement from the ANC to South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, set up to investigate apartheid-era abuses and promote reconciliation among South Africans of all races.
The ANC repeated its position that the armed struggle against the country's white-ruled government, which began in 1960, was a just war and that civilians had not been deliberately targeted.
-
The ANC repeated its position that the armed struggle against the country’s white-ruled government, which began in 1960, was a just war and that civilians had not been deliberately targeted.
Which makes a stark difference between the ANC (or rather, the ANC's policies) and Hamas.
-
-
they could be far-right freedom fighters, history have definitely seen communist terrorists too
-
Far-right and “freedom fighter” are categorically opposing though. If you’re fighting to install a far-right government, you are fighting to implement authority and counteract freedom.
-
I don't think fighting for freedom of your country is mutually exclusive with having far right views, also I'm not saying this about Palestinians or Hamas, but overall, the mere fact of fighting for freedom of your country isn't even remotely related to ones political views, you can be on the whole political spectrum
-
-
-
232 comments
I saw that, which is why I didn't label the character "OP." It was intended more of a response in general, not a specific criticism of you.
In my view it's rare that anyone really 'simps for Hamas', they are the leading militant group in Gaza opposing the Israeli state though so if there are victories against IDF forces it's usually going to be under that umbrella, and praising a victory against IDF is not the same as praising past terror attacks. I've never heard anyone confused that they are communist. There are Marxist-Leninist groups in Palestine though, like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.
What are you talking about? It is a conflict between two parties and everybody knows that things have to be black and white!!
I demand to know which of the two are the good guys!
By creating and attacking a strawman here you're distracting from the important points. Hamas is a direct response to the oppression of the Palestinian people by Israel. It's classic blowback and communists are just pointing out the obvious here. You can disagree that Hamas is deserving of critical support in the context of the current conflict, but if you ignore the conditions that led to Oct 7th and the fallout since you are taking the wrong lesson away from this issue and someday will be found on the wrong side of history.
You also have to recognize that there's no line between Palestinians and Hamas. I don't mean that it's hard to find. I mean there isn't one.
72% of Palestinians believe the attack on Israel was "correct". And presumably some of the remainder are smart enough to not admit to that.
Hamas still enjoys wide, wide support among Palestinians, for some valid reasons.
This is only because it was. And I'm really sad to say it, but it definitely was "correct".
Listen. Palestinians are fighting a losing war. Their enemy has taken their homes and is ethnically cleansing the region. There is NOTHING that they can do about it. We're watching the death throes of an entire people. And sometimes when you corner an animal, it bites. It's not gonna be nice. But Israel is fully responsible for this situation. It wasn't Palestine that wanted the two state solution. It wasn't Palestine that illegally settled Israel and stole their land. It wasn't Palestine that got granted an entire fucking country for no reason. It wasn't Palestine rigging elections in Israel and supporting the local terrorist organization. Israel has been the architect of all this destruction. Piece by piece, little by little, with the international community backing them and turning a blind eye to their genocide.
Everything Palestine can throw at Israel, it's justified. And I hope they do enough damage for Israel civilians to maybe think "hey, I don't want this. Let's get these warring fucks out of power and end this. Let me get out of this failed notion of a state, I don't want to be a part of it, I don't want to support displacing and killing off an entire people". But it won't. It'll just do a bit of damage to retaliate against the genocide, just enough to maybe make 1-2 people feel like they avenged the many loved ones who died. And I think - good. If you're gonna die anyway, if you're doomed either way? Fuck them. Fuck those Nazi assholes. Take off as big of a chunk as you can. Make them bleed, to remind them they're not invincible. Just as a last act of defiance before they finish you off.