[CW: Suicide] Any time I see "Bullying Works" or "bullying" being used positively on here, I think of shit like this

Just because it's ok to do something to an adult doesn't mean it's ok to do that same thing to a child. Many such cases.

Drake is in shambles
Adults are never bullied in harmful ways
- Yes obviously what I meant is its always ok to bully adults nothing has been clearer

There’s actually zero difference between good and bad things. You imbecile. You fucking moron.

Bullying bad people who deserve it and have shitty beliefs to be bullied out of is good. Bullying innocent children for things they cannot control is bad. Context matters.

I can see a line of argument where a 4th grader shouldn't be bullied even for things they can control. They'd hardly know better because of their mushy, young, little mind. In that sense, the bullying is only the harmful part of getting the message across. Therefore there'd be a desire to separate the connotations of bullying from the good work of rattling the chains of people who are responsible for harm.
I think this is where the problem is. You can't bully someone into having better beliefs. You can bully them into shutting up and being scared to say their shitty opinions out loud. There's a lot of people where achieving that would be great, and for them "bullying works". But believing that "bullying works" to actually change people for the better leads to some awful behavior, and it's an issue that a lot of people on this site accept it.
- You absolutely can bully people out of shitty beliefs and it's way more effective than saying "let's try to figure out why you believe you're a superior race"
  "Bullying" is literally what made it unacceptable for white people to call black people the n word in public.

"Any time I think of killing, I think of throttling a toddler while their parents have to watch. So let's not use killing to describe what we want to do to Nazis."

Sorry but this is a stupid, pointless argument to have. Context matters.

Yea I'm going to assume the 4th grader wasn't being bullied because of his dogsgit political takes that came striaght from a wapo op ed about how safety regulations are actually detrimental to the working class.
I would totally strangle baby hitler while his parents watch
- I wouldn't explain to them why I am doing it either, yea

Context matters.

.... if you search the most riducules way of framing something to then make it a problem you can then beeing concerned about..... its not a problem , the most ridicules way of framing you applied is the problem.

and Bullying works . You will not relate bulling fascist out of their opinion on an online forum with" Sucide Cases in Highschool" anymore even if you are ridicules enough to draw this connection..

Drawing this conection is real not acceptable , and if you do it you appear as somebody searching and Stirring for Drama.

maybe using the 'punching up' vs 'punching down' language would be some helpful context?

"Bullying Down"

"Bullying Up"

It’s because the chuds complain “I’m being bullied” that the term is used.

Yes, chuds are 'cry bullies'.

I would never use a

on a fourth grader

Yeah every time you're about to bully a fascist, simply shoot them instead.

No more half measures Walter

If we can bully some fascists into suicide that would be ok by me.

we have dozens of emotes which are direct references to murder, and a site culture that constantly celebrates righteous political violence, but bullying is a bridge too far?

Hot take, but to be honest, the whole 'bullying works' thing always came off as quite lame.

It's online discourse. You don't seem tough. You seem like the leftist stereotype of a keyboard warrior.

The chances are, a lot of leftists were probably on the 'bullied' side of the spectrum - more so than the right wing kids who were more likely to have been the bully. This could be too much extrapolation, but sometimes it seems like some deeper psychological impulse to enact justice on behalf of your younger self, and feel powerful.

I don't think it makes the poster cool by any means, but it's an effective way to deal with chuds sealioning or concern trolling. Often their shitty arguments aren't worthy of being engaged, and you don't want them to have free momentum. Hence, harass them till they are either banned or quit.
The flip side to seeming like a "leftist stereotype of a keyboard warrior" is seeming like a civility fetishist who scolds people for being mean to literal self proclaimed fascists.
If we're going to meaningfully oppose the rising tide of fascism in this country we may need to get a little thicker skin then being upset on the behalf of the enemy for calling them a dork.
more so than the right wing kids who were more likely to have been the bully
I don't think that rings true tbh. Like sure, right wing as per definition of a leftist, but if your schoolmates perceived you as right wing, good chance you were bullied for being a fucking loser
- Depends on school culture, more rural and suburban schools definitely have a very conservative dominant culture typically. Also in Canada hockey players take the role of the athletic kids and hockey tends to have a very reactionary culture compared to other sports

I object to comparing bullying libs and nazis to this. They're different things and everyone understands that.

I don't see why the word matters. I was bullied, I'd wager half the people here experienced some form of bullying as a kid. That doesn't change the fact that "cancel culture" "brigading" and generally being rude shits to people online with intent to get a social reaction out of them that is positive (they fuck off, apologise, delete accounts, never do it again, etc etc etc) is accurate to describe as bullying. It is bullying in service of good, this is bullying in service of bad. They're quite easily understood as different things.

Yea exactly this.
When I went to youth program in the next town over because it was free for my family kids literally threw rocks at me and would shove me I to shale so I'd get cut up and then the counselors would grab me if I tried to retaliate because they were the older brothers of the kids bullying me and we'd both get in the same amount of trouble.
Don't have much patience for people telling me calling self avowed nazis stupid assholes makes me as bad as them.
People here fundamentally understand the difference between punching up and punching down. Otherwise they wouldn't be here.

anytime i hear about 'sex' i think of the time i was abused but you don't see me making my personal hangups into a Big Dramatic Criticism Of Hexbear Sitewide Culture.

Most people hear 'bullying' and think of like low stakes teasing and stuff, not child suicide. Its not this sites specific leftist attempt to 'reclaim' the word 'bullying', it is literally just english speakers using the word as usual with its usual meaning and context which does not include child suicide. absolutely no one here advocates for children committing suicide and it is borderline wrecker behavior to suggest as much. This is shock value emotional manipulation to associate hexbear with child suicide for no good reason whatsoever.

idk if you are intentionally wrecking but to the passive observer you are equating the mild criticism of the online posts of others with advocating for literal child deaths, that is absolutely ridiculous.

I mostly agree in this case but what's exactly stopping somebody for making the same argument for words like "idiot" or "stupid"? There was a thread concerning exactly this a few days/weeks ago and people responded way more positively about that than about this.
I guess you can't do much better than take it on a case-by-case basis.

Bullying works. Shooting people works too. What matters is the target.

Ops argument is literally reddits excuse for why the original sub got banned.
Because we were being mean to hypothetical historical slave owners.
If it upsets you go back to r/politicalhumor pretty sure they've got rules about enforcing civility on libs and fascists too, op should feel right at home
- Or lemmy.zip. there are plenty of places to go be a milquetoast ass lib.
  Why should we change? They're the ones who suck.

On one hand fucking with random children sucks, but on the other hand turning cruelty back on the cruel is all i aspire to and my only real end goal. Shithead world

no shot this is sincere lmao

take your bait and fuck off

It is actually. I was bullied when I was younger and it fucked me up, which is why it makes me uncomfortable seeing the word used positively.
Some here are taking a bad faith interpretation like I'm saying "BULLYING NAZIS IS LIKE BULLYING THIS CHILD!1!1" when it should be pretty obvious that's not what I'm getting at. I feel there's a bullying culture in society at large that enables bullying, not just of children but indeed adults too, and that uses of the word like this aren't helping.
- Im sorry that u had this experience... u should not moralise the word "bullying" and focus more on who is the target.

Strong agree.

When I was first checking out r/chapotraphouse it was really alienating to see bullying being referred to so positively. Why was a community that’s so disproportionately queer and neurodiverse lauding the merits of bullying when we’re so much more likely to be the victims?

We pretty much only use the word bullying when we’re talking about punching up, harassing horrible people in power or shutting down fascists and liberals. I think it’s a form of immunisation, a way of preempting accusations of horrible people that they’re being bullied for their harmful selfish bigotry with “yeah we’re bullying you so what”. It disarms the accusation and looks really strong/funny to outsiders, because the power differential between the people who’re crying they’re being “bullied” by us and the people who’re bullying them, or how socially accepted the (awful, harmful) views they’re claiming to hold are compared to the views they say we’re “bullying” them for not having. It’s really really funny when actual elected officials or Op Ed writers with huge readerships whine about being bullied by a crowd of posters with names like Ho_Chi_Minx and ✨StanStalin✨ and it makes them look weak and us look strong.

When we talk about what would more commonly be considered bullying, punching down on people who’re different because they’re different, like (I imagine, thank you for the CW I did not need to read that today) is reported on in the article you linked and many of us experience or have experienced daily we tend to use words like harassment, micro-aggressions, abuse, discrimination and trans/homophobia to describe what we’re going through. Whenever someone posts here about the bullying they’ve experienced, either as a child or an adult, there is almost without exception an outpouring of sympathy, compassion, outrage commiseration and support, and anything out of line is usually shut down almost immediately not just by the mod team (who can’t be everywhere at once) but by the willingness of almost everyone here to bully anyone trying to make this an unsafe space for our marginalised comrades into silence.

Why was a community that’s so disproportionately queer and neurodiverse lauding the merits of bullying when in the larger we’re so much more likely to be the victims?
Because at the end of the day, this is fundamentally a subreddit dedicated to a comedy entertainment podcast fandom, and is full of people repeating ironic comedy bits from their favorite podcast hosts as though they were genuine political convictions. They act like roasting some shitty NYT columnist on twitter is the highest form of political praxis because roasting shitty NYT columnists on twitter made for funny podcast content. Fandoms are insular and they feel personally threatened when the fandom norms aren't upheld.

I'm with you but

"Causing intentional social discomfort and osticization in response to unacceptable antisocial positions and actions"

is a bit of a mouth full

What do you suggest instead

Yeah Hexbear has a problem with "being normal". Always has, it's why the podcast wanted to distance themselves from the r/chapotraphouse subreddit.

Really think about what "bullying works!" with no context added would look like to a normie. Complete insanity. I want to distance myself from this site whenever it gets brought up.

If you insist on stripping all context from sonmething to decide if you should get upset about it or not I'm pretty happy our "bullying" is driving those people away.

People here bully for the same reason anyone else bullies: cruelty without consequence makes the bully feel powerful. The idea that bullying is "praxis" or whatever is self-justifying delusion. Nobody who can explain at length why individual voting in bourgeois elections is a waste of time genuinely believes that they're doing more to improve material conditions by seeking out the safest possible environment to perform focused personal cruelty without negative social feedback. People do it because it's fun for them. It's a hobby. People don't want to be told not to enjoy their shameful treat, so they come up with tortured excuses about why their indulgence is actually a selfless public service.

No it's because it's easier to say "stfu nerd" then to engage with the idea the reason were mean to fascists and bigots is because we're desperate for "a need to feel powerful"
No it's because those people suck and they should be shamed for their shitty bigoted opinions.
- Also, this is the ONLY place on the whole internet where we as leftists can get ours. How many platforms have you been banned from while the libs/chuds can say whatever they want?
- Do you credit being being bullied with improving your life and making you a better person? Did you thank your bully? Has it been your experience that others thank you for improving their lives by bullying them? If you believe that bullying is effective at correcting antisocial behavior, then why wouldn't parents, teachers, and peers have a duty to bully children? If you just believe in an abstract sense that it's good to do bad things to bad people, then why would it be wrong to sexually assault people who have sexually assaulted others?
  Political education is a tool to correct harmful reactionary behavior. Revolutionary violence is a tool to remove reactionaries' ability to cause harm. If what you're doing isn't changing harmful behavior, and it's not reducing their ability to cause harm, then it's worth considering what you actually are accomplishing with how you choose to spend your time. Reinforcing an association of cruelty with pleasure in your own mind harms you more than it helps anyone else.

As much as the concept of bullying libs, lolbertarians and other chuds is funny, I do wonder about using the term while schools in the western world do jack shit about bullying amongst their student populace...