Guys, what's a toxic trait other guys sometimes have
Guys, what's a toxic trait other guys sometimes have
179 comments
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Customers hitting on people at their job.
Was eating lunch at a bar one time when three dude bros came in and started hitting on the bartender. They weren't overly aggressive but it was obnoxious.
She handled it really well. She looked each of them in the eye, smiled, introduced herself and shook each of their hands in turn. She stated she was a professional and appreciated being treated like one. She was friendly but firm.
Shut them right the fuck up. They behaved much better after that.
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She has done countless subsequent women a huge favour.
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This one’s a pet peeve, especially if the person is with me. IMO it’s one of the simplest ways to discover your friend likely has zero game with people who aren’t paid to be nice to them.
ETA: In case you feel called out and are wondering “What, so bartenders and waitstaff are totally off-limits?”
Of course not! You can shoot your shot, just try to keep it holstered until you’re (1) on even footing instead of a customer-host advantage and (2) aren’t cornering them in a place they must stay to make a living. For example, you could hold off until the bill is paid and/or they’re off the clock, then ask for digits on your way out (signaling you have no intention of bothering them further if there’s no interest) or give your number so the ball is fully in their court. Of course, if they shoot their shot first, rules of engagement are suspended. Mine did and she’s alright I guess. The above are her suggestions.
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The need to make everything into a competition or to one-up any story or anecdote.
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That’s nothing!
Ever seen a group of guys stuck in a terminal one-downsmanship spiral of mutual unaccountability?
It’s epic bro. Totally blows the doors off your example.
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Making fun of people for admitting they don't know things.
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I wish more guys just said they didn't know something instead of clearly not knowing what they're talking about and running their mouth based on vibes
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A friend of mine keeps doing this. He'll pretend to be an expert of fucking anything, and you can generally tell immediately that he doesn't know shit. When he goes on about things that I actually do know things about it's unbearable, and of course his ego is too fragile to handle being told he's wrong.
We have a lot of impressive common friends with awesome general knowledge, and I frequently wonder how the hell we have the patience to keep him around. My general knowledge is shite, but at least I'm quite open about being ignorant.
He's hyper sensitive about social situations, yet introducing him to new people is almost always embarrassing.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, he is a professional psychologist.
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In eighth grade I got into an argument on the bus, precursor to the Internet, with a kid about my ignorance of sex. He drew a picture of a diaphragm and ridiculed me for not knowing what it was.
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Guy at work always starts saying sexist shit when no other women are around, maybe wanting to built camaraderie or something? Toxic masculinity is a myth. Women all want the bad boys. No thanks we can avoid the 1:1 convos from now on.
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Ugh.
If you consciously change your behaviour once there's no women around... Yeah, chances are you won't see me again unless I'm absolutely forced to.
It's like some people think they're contractually obliged to make a sexist joke or some shit. Thankfully I don't meet these people often.
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Guy at work always starts saying sexist shit when no other women are around
I misread that as sexiest shit at first and was super confused. "Damn they must be working with some gay ass motherfuckers."
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Not a guy, but the one that really gets me is willfully incompetence - particularly around household or family chores (and the mental load associated with them).
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It’s called “brokedishing” and choosing the right dish to break is an art form.
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Damn, that’s way catchier than weaponized incompetence.
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I work from home so I typically do the majority of the cleaning; I don’t mind because I’m a bit of a clean freak anyway.
What I found odd is when my wife’s family from Mexico were visiting she turned into a maid and would shoo me away from things like washing a single dish (for example).
Not sure if it was cultural or what but it definitely threw me off — I don’t want her family thinking I’m making her do everything all the time.
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100% a cultural thing. Depending on what part of Mexico they're from, she may not want them to know that you do any chores. If a woman can't handle all of the chores herself, it's seen as a failing.
Super fucked up, but Latin America is in fact super fucked up.
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Oh, that's interesting. Could be a family thing. Could also be just a good host thing.
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Yeah, sorry but this one is just counterproductive. Guys just don't give a fuck. No one is going around "ooh, what if I pretend I can't do this task so she then has to do it". That's just patriarchy and gender roles for you. Maybe try to have a conversation about the subject of chores without sticking the "you're evil" tag on the other person. Well, for anything in life really. Also mental load is there for anyone, I see no point in bringing it up in this context. The dudes have to deal with a fair share of mental load as well, specially with all the emotional neglect and immaturity.
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Needing to be not just right but the most right person in the room about everything
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2 former coworkers of mine who always the smartest person they know. One of em lives alone and you can tell he's never lost an argument (with himself in his head) and anytime he tries to back up his opinion it's always the same "it's dumb, it's stupid, it doesn't make sense it's not LoGiCaL". But anytime you try to chime in...he talks over you.
The other is one of those "I read both sides of the story so I know far far more than you"...who was a one of those reddit knowitalls.
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There can only be one
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This is a pattern I've seen repeatedly.
Guys find themselves desperate to get laid, and that desperation comes across in all of their interactions with women, who don't like feeling that they're being treated like a vending machine, which leads to the guy being rejected for reasons that he doesn't entirely understand.
He gets in a relationship with someone, finally, and everything is great for a while. Then he realizes that women are talking and flirting with him more than they ever have before, and isn't sure why, but he enjoys it. He doesn't understand that, because he is in a relationship, he has stopped being desperate and weird, and is now actually having real conversations with women about mutually interesting topics.
Surrounded by women that are (seemingly) available, he either breaks up with his SO, asks for some sort of open arrangement, or tries to cheat. Unfortunately, for reasons that he still doesn't understand, as soon as he's available for sex, women start being turned off by him again (if not to quite the degree they were before) and, again, he finds it difficult to get laid.
From here, guys often fall into some incel-style evolutionary psychology explanation for things, regularly cheat on everyone that they're with, or gradually becomes aware of the pattern.
If they become aware of the pattern, they can begin to manage it and reduce the desperate, salesman vibe that they give off. As they become more confident and relaxed, it becomes clear to women that they're perfectly comfortable going home alone or just being friends, which allows them to have more meaningful relationships and, incidentally, more sex with people they like.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED Talk on the origin and mating behavior of the involuntarily celibate.
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Problem # 2,846 that would be solved if everyone wasn't so hung up on monogamy
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With polyamory, Brokeback Mountain is a light hearted comedy about some queer friends who like to escape to the woods sometimes.
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I think you're confusing incels with dudebros
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I have a coworker who is walking checklist of toxic traits and red flags. Here are the highlights:
- only helps attractive younger women or men who can do favors for him
- sticks his nose into situations that he has no business with
- tends to work on high visibility projects while ignoring his actual job
- has a BT speaker that requires wheels and extended handle and plays his shitty music loudly
- honestly thinks he's all that and a bag of chips
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LMAO Bluetooth speaker on wheels.
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wtf @ the bluetooth wheelie
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- honestly thinks he's all that and a bag of chips
ಠ_ಠ
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Naturally, you are the one and true Bag of Chips
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Factory standard self-centered douchebag™
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An egocentric attitude, like they're the main character. Super fucking annoying.
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Constantly questioning other men's sexuality.
Bro its 2024, MIND YOUR DAMN BUISNESS.
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guys at work comlaining about their divorce to anyone entering an enclosed room. four different times when i was forced to work in an office and twice so far in slack. mother fucker i dont known you but i already get why she left. stop trying to force random people to be your therapist.
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I've seen this, and what bothers me most is when you get that nasty feeling they're not looking for a therapist, but validation. Yeah, your ex-wife sucked, man. She was totally in the wrong about everything always, sorry you had to deal with her for so long. I'm sure you're in the clear and there's nothing you could be blamed for, it's easy to tell from this one-sided retelling of your personal conflicts.
When anyone's first topic of choice for casual conversation is how much their last partner was in the wrong, it's... difficult not to be dubious.
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Standard guy who can’t fathom the idea of changing or self-improvement. He’s never the problem.
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Being afraid to ask for help, and general pride issues.
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My uncle who asks which peloton instructors I like informing me that he only picks the hot ones.
Like, you’ve been married to a woman for 30 years. I get it, you’re straight.
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Just wish they wouldn't have to shove it down our throats all the time
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Not really exclusive to men; women thirsting after hot fitness instructors is a whole trope
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Not understanding boundaries and not having/setting them and respecting others'.
You don't owe shit to anyone and if they make you feel bad, they are often manipulating you. What you choose to do needs to be a hard yes from yourself otherwise its going through motions and can often be inauthentic which is inherently harmful to your sense and integrity of Self
People naturally test these limits and breach them all the time so it happens but you must train yourself to assert your will for yourself and how you respond to trespasses by setting those limits and then strongly upholding them when it comes time to address the opposing force, definitely for those who continue despite knowing the rules of the game you've set for yourself
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to combine all 3 of the above, i worked with a joe rogan bro who would come up and show me a video of him having abusive sex with a hidden camera footage that the partner wasnt even aware of, to brag about his weekend conquest, then tell me how he stole her soul with surprise anal. then he dared me to show him something better next week.
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I'm not sure why this is a thing more men do, but I can't agree more. Generally, I associate this kind of behavior with poor emotional intelligence so good advice for literally any kind of relationship with anyone.
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The only emotion men are allowed to express is anger. Being angry all the time is extra manly.
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And if you're not being angry, being an emotionless robot is also super manly
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That the most manly thing you can do is be intimidating. Big muscles, big car, loud car or bike, acting angry or tough. None of these things make you more of a man, in fact offten than not they make you look insecure and less of a man.
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I think the most manly thing I do is wear pink, I recently got a custom make shirt,bright pink with a big honkin "I love cowboys" printed on the front. Teenage me would be cringing but my thought is, "if you're manly, you can handle the color pink"
Side note is old ladies love it
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Thought of another trait that is as toxic as it is annoying: apparently a man must outwardly show how attracted he is to "hot" women around him or he must be gay, and apparently that in itself is also implied to be a disappointment.
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God, that's so weird. A boomer aged progressive will some times point out hot women to me. Not even in his age group. It really is just hard coded in that whole generation.
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But then when he does it in front of his girlfriend, he's being unfaithful. But if he doesn't express interest in other women then his opinion on his partner's hotness doesn't matter because he must not be into women or he's not macho enough since macho people are supposed to ogle women.
God I'm glad I'm not closeted anymore...(I'm polyamorous, agender, and pansexual).
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Turning every minor thing into a competition.
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Even conversations.
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Seeing regular masculinity as toxic. Just out right judging people for not being more feminine and doing normal guy stuff.
Like bunch of guys joking around having fun. "Oh that's toxic masculinity.
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Yeah, I kind of agree. Toxic masculinity is a thing, but it doesn't mean all masculinity is automatically toxic.
Then again, usually when I'm hanging out with guys and the testosterone level runs a bit high, someone will crack a joke about it and we'll laugh at ourselves.
I think having a fragile ego and not being able to joke about yourself and/or your masculinity probably does make it on in the toxic list.
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Most of the people I work with these days have fragile egos. It’s a big problem.
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Yeah, I kind of agree. Toxic masculinity is a thing, but it doesn't mean all masculinity is automatically toxic.
Then again, usually when I'm hanging out with guys and the testosterone level runs a bit high, someone will crack a joke about it and we'll laugh at ourselves.
I think having a fragile ego and not being able to joke about yourself and/or your masculinity probably does make it on in the toxic list.
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The inability to admit that they're wrong.
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Off the top of my head: the guy I recently saw get out of his car in stopped traffic banging on another driver’s window screaming “you almost hit me motherfucker!”
I was sat there thinking “almost?” Not that it’s excusable in any case but imagine losing it because someone almost hit you. Mistakes happen bro, be happy nothing serious happened.
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I guess it depends on how stupid the almost is Where I live most people can't drive well at all and honestly I wish someone would do this
The only issue is most people also have guns where I live
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Bullying.
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Dudes that nitpick jokes.
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meta
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I feel like I am missing a joke here
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The inability to accept/ ask for help.
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Because then they're told they're weak...
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When i was around 16 and drove around with co workers, they always had to comment on women they saw on the street. Oh she's so hot. Look at her boobs. Ew she's ugly. They were super nice guys, but i always just sat there quietly thinking: maybe when i'm an adult i'll be like that and don't feel so awkward anymore. I'm always 40 now and still when i sit in a car with guys i don't really know, nothing has really changed. I still just roll my eyes and when i see a lady with big boobs, i hope no one else saw her. But they always do and have something extremely funny to say.
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The prideful tough guy front masking all emotion (besides anger) was enough reason for me to leave an all-male facility.
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When we have female friends in common and suddenly it turns out they want to fuck her and they assume I'm only hanging out with her because I want to as well.
I have never had any men brag to me about their sexual encounters; generally the people I end up hanging out with don't make sexist comments about women in public or anything like that. But this bullshit I've experienced on numerous occasions.
I guess it's not really a "toxic trait" as much as "being toxic as fuck".
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Micromanagement and the need to take credit for work other people do. Of all the incompetent bosses I've had over the years, micromanagers are the worst and all of the micromanagers for whom I've worked have been men.
It's like, dude, you hired me because I know more about doing this task than other people (including you). Stop hovering over me, when I need your input I'll come get you. Just let me fucking cook. I know what I'm talking about and what I'm going... you employ me specifically because I know what I'm talking about and what I'm doing.
I guess their thought process goes: if I'm not hovering over this person at all times, the company might figure out I don't know 100% of 100% of everything my employees do day to day... even though that's insane. What company would require a manager to know absolutely everything about how their employees do their jobs; a manager obviously shouldn't be completely in the dark about operations but also it's crazy to think they'd want them to be an expert on everything.
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Not letting their girlfriends hang out with other guys.
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Huge red flag right there
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Not just guys, but mainly.
In the engineering field and other technical realms you’ll often find an asshole coming out of their shell under the guise of superior life choices. They full delude themselves into believing other trades and interests are less than because they don’t benefit society in such a directly visible way.
I should know, I was brainwashed into the cult for a few years. It took seeing it go to the extreme before I snapped out of it and started respecting other career and life choices.
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The need to always seem manly around other men...in particular the choice of music. Ride in the car with certain people, they always have to be blasting hard rock or rap, or hard country depending on your location.
Meanwhile I'm over here enjoying switching between pop, rock, new wave, alt and even my playlist of exclusively Elton John, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel and Billy Joel
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Friend, there's nothing wrong with enjoying extreme music. Its a bit weird when that's all someone cares about, but many people have a healthy obsession with extreme music and you shouldn't judge them for it.
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what is hard country
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A cognitive bias with a reification fallacy in common speech. "Scientists say...", "Everyone believes...", " All of Lemmy knows..."...
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Thinking that just because they can fight that means they win any argument they're in.
My current boss is an ex mma fighter and does this literally all the time. You'll bring up a concern about something he's doing and he'll shut you down and if you persist he tries to intimidate you by reminding you of his size and fighting history.
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"Check out my hotsauce collection!" or otherwise making mundane things into competitions.
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To me, just that statement reads like collecting something, being proud of it, and wanting to start a conversation or find shared interest in it rather than some competition. Maybe I'm lacking context?
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So I think I know what you're talking about, but I don't think having hobbies is the issue here.
You do see this a lot when guys are talking and someone brings up a sort of niche hobby (tech, fan bases, something that requires a lot of knowledge)
Guys will all show interest but not want to be talked down to or mansplained to on a topic they're passionate about (yes ladies we experience it too)so they overcorrect and try to prove their knowledge real fast.
This sometimes leads to a sort of feedback loop where the other person thinks they're trying to one up them and tries to be the more knowledgeable one and on and on, I've seen so many guys do this, that's why I avoid talking about hobbies with IRL friends (looking at you RuneScape)
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Feeling slightly attacked, I’m big on the hot sauce but are people making this competitive? I don’t understand, is hot sauce rare in some places?
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If you use hot sauce so slowly you can keep a collection going, you're doing it wrong.
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Men were just as depressed before, the only difference is now we admit to it.
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And there's this whole thing with correlation and causation.
In the midst of a million different other potential causes, they are identifying "masculine fragility" as the big contributor to depression? Not missing data points, not social media, not the momentum of societal change in the last 30y, not socioeconomic factors, potential comorbidities as contributors, increasingly inflammatory politics, globalization as a whole, ...
It's so dumb to single this out. Sure some people need more confidence, but being "more masculine" sounds like the worst plan ever to gain healthy confidence. If you have problems with your confidence there's usually other factors at play and the most efficient way to improve is to seek a therapist and sort your life or your brain out.
Same goes for dating by the way. A million factors that are potentially contributing to that one, and that's a two player game, so even more factors to consider.
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I agree with the effects you’re seeing but not the cause.
Women’s liberation changed how women are presented in society. It fundamentally changed what it means to be a woman.
Men never went through that. At the moment, we sorta can’t. If I were to create a “men’s liberation" group, it would quickly be taken over by Incels. Hard-core feminists would also stir up a fuss that this group was exclusionary to them. So we are kind of stuck.
Manhood needs to be redefined, because many of the classic male role definitions no longer apply. men can be sensitive where historically they've been expected to be stoic. Men can raise children when classically they have been breadwinners while the women raise children.
I think these are all great changes, but we haven't been able to redefine manhood in the same way that the feminists were able to redefine womanhood.
I don't have a good answer, we are somewhat handcuffed by the expectation to fulfil classic roles, along with new expectations to be more modern feminist-aware, sensitive men. The two are not compatible enough to make for a nice midpoint.
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I don't know if we have to make a societal decision to change the definition of manhood. I think just by accepting that men can be sensitive, and don't have to be bread winners, more men will fill those roles (and not feel like they have to hide it). And as time goes on, the more men live like that, the more the definition of manhood will change in its own.
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There are some good men's lib groups, but they take diligence so that they don't fall to the incels. The one on reddit was actually pretty decent (prob still is but I haven't checked in awhile), and there are a couple on lemmy but they're not really active
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Losing your sense of self in response to criticism is one mark of a man who’s been failed by his upbringing. Mistakes aren’t flaws if you learn from them, and so an identity can only become fragile if it is too brittle to endure change.
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Friend if that is your current experience with same sex relationships then maybe it might be time to branch out a little bit and start talking to new groups.
Ngl your current one, to me, sounds a little depressing
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No one is forcing men to be more fragile.
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It’s true in some circles.
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179 comments
Gonna take the hit on this one: a Joe Rogan bro. You probably know what I’m talking about, but to be more clear: aggro “alpha male,” gym rat or has a weirdly intense workout routine, takes a bunch of supplements, ready to believe anything pitched as “they don’t want you to know this,” weird diets of meat, “edgy” humor that’s more nodding and agreeing with prejudices than being funny, etc. Oh and listens to Joe Rogan willingly.
There’s nothing toxic about working out and getting strong, taking supplements etc. As long as you’re not harming yourself or other people then I see nothing wrong with it.
My dearly beloved ham casserole, I don't think going to the gym was the toxic trait here.
The description wasn't "any one of the above", it was "all (or most) of the above".