There's no coming back from that

If you were alive (and online) during the 90s, you may remember the banter between Microsoft and General Motors:

From https://crysa.fzu.cz/ondra/documents/cars_like_windows.html (the only online copy I could find)

Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving twenty-five-dollar cars that get 1,000 miles to the gallon."
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
[...]
The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single "general car error" warning light.
New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
The airbag system would ask "Are You Sure?" before going off.
Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed a hold of the radio antenna.

30 years later, some of those jokes are finally becoming reality, thanks to Tesla.

The Macintosh one is wild
“6. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would only run on 5 percent of the roads."
- Love the scene from the Steve Jobs movie where Woz asks Steve if in order to send an email on the NEXT computer the recipient would also need to have an NEXT computer.
  Of course!
- My experience with Macs was not anything like that. Not super intuitive to figure out, which was made more frustrating by how slow it was, which was made more frustrating by the crashes and having to start all over again.
Ironically the errors a Tesla throws are very detailed, and tell you exactly what's wrong. GM's error messages are literally an incomprehensible glyph that, when backlit, might mean there's a problem.
I've heard of Tesla owners being unable to get into their car because their wireless-only key fob was to close to a radio dish and was being effectively jammed. The owner had to go under the car and hide the remote from the radar dish to get it to unlock
- Yikes. Wouldn't that effect all fob style entries though? A lot of cars do that.

PC LOAD LETTER
- WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN!?
- HALT AND CATCH FIRE

Most modern computerized cars are like this sadly, but i think tesla is the worst one them all

- When they get old and central enough for hacker kiddies to have, I predict jail breaking will be pretty common.
Hyundai Ioniqs don't feel this way!

"Wiper fluid empty. Car shutting down."

I mean if it only did it at home I'd be okay with it, my wife might actually fill the wiper fluid occasionally.

So for the record, I had a non-EV car scream bloody murder, barely drivable, ABS triggering randomly, 10 warnings whenever you turned it on, and in the end it was one little burnt out sensor that caused it all.

I wouldn't buy a tesla considering all the dodgy stuff that has come out, but non-EVs are just as susceptable to the printer analogy.

I've had my car's transmission go out and keep putting itself in limp mode (won't go above 40mph) but I could still actually drive it and open the doors and windows. I just read an article of a woman who got locked into her Tesla because the fucker started updating. That's a problem literally no other cars have, nor should they.
- The woman was an idiot then, because the car has manual levers to open the doors, for cases just like this, or total power failure. It's required by law in most countries, if not all.
- That kinda sounds like it might break some kinda law? A fire safety requorement comes to mind, but I'm not sure if it actually applies to cars and not just buildings.
  But yes, you're right, a car you can't get out of at all times is a car no one should have.
The only ICE cars that are as unreliable as printers are Italian vehicles.
- Mine is from the US of A.

I don't get this. I live in the sweet spot for ev ownership: in an area with rich liberals who like outwardly show they care about the environment.

4 people on my block have Teslas. All of them say they love the car. The guy who lives across the street from me says his only regret is that he didn't get the AWD version because his sucks in the snow. My boss owns a Tesla, said he would absolutely buy one again. My cousin leased one and said that when he goes to buy a car, it would likely be a Tesla. One of my best friends bought one, and loves it. I rented one (it was 15 dollars more a day, with free charging, so I'm pretty sure it more than made up the cost) and it was mostly a pleasure to drive (not a big fan of the touch screen for everything).

According to Consumer Reports, Tesla is one of the top brands for owner satisfaction.

Yet here on lemmy, you would think that owning a Tesla is some kind of miserable experience. I can't help but believe it's driven by a dislike of musk, rather than Teslas actually being bad cars.

I think our bias is that a huge portion of us are scientists and engineers, so the things that bother us aren't the same things that bother everyone else. Most people don't worry about how their car works, or want to repair it themselves, etc.
It's not the car for a Linux user.
- Im not buying this. If it could be demonstrated, I'd be willing to bet that at least 99% of the people who upvoted this have never even changed a spark plug, let alone anything actually complicated or difficult with their car.
  It's clearly en vogue on lemmy to hate on Tesla, which is almost certainly why this has so many upvotes. I just don't get why people have to pretend the cars are shit when seemingly it's really about hating musk.
- Funny because (at least last I checked) The cars use linux.
I think half of it is Elon Musk and the other half are the news stories about the numerous problems they seem to have.
There are some things that Tesla does wrong, but a lot of these issues are also found in other EVs. It's a car for somebody who is fine using Apple products.
- No half about it for me. 100% the fact musk is a giant piece of shit.
I love my Tesla and hate musk with the fire of a billion suns.
I'm sorry haters, but Teslas are absolutely fantastic cars to own and drive, in my 2 years of owning one. ZERO ISSUES and 100,000km down.
That said the only reason I'll not buy one NEXT is because that nazi fuck head is attached to the brand and has poisoned the joy of owning it.
- I've been thinking of buying a EV for a while now. Tesla was obviously the top of the list. Now it's kind of the bottom of the list.
Love my Tesla, wouldn't go back to an ice car. I'm not particularly a fan of Musk, but I'm definitely a fan of the science and engineering being done across his companies. Comparing a ownership of a printer to owning a Tesla? Kind of a lame joke
I think the bar is pretty high for EVs. I have a non-Telsa EV, and the driving experience is just so nice. Even if the rest of the car had a bunch of issues I would imagine the way that Teslas drive would be enough to still make people love them. They would probably love a better built EV more.
- Yeah but people hate the printers because they are a pita and not enjoyable to use. Which is why I switched to brother printers (well, just one, I've had it for well over a decade at this point).
  People still seem pretty happy with a Tesla and would buy again, despite there being other options.
For the most part, the cars are fine. I really enjoy working on a car and find pleasure in purely mechanical things. I like internal combustion engines.
Sure, I think Musk is an idiot. But it's much more that I think Teslas are overrated. My biggest gripe is the arbitrary changing of existing user controls and their ethos of the car should anticipate and do things for me. I don't want the car to do anything unless I tell it to. Even if it is something as simple as turn signals.
I don't want solenoids for car handles.
I don't want controls on a fucking touchscreen.
I don't want automatic updates.
I don't want subscriptions.
I don't want to be able to change the horn (because a horn is supposed to be a safety item and sound a certain way.)
I don't want stupid games on the touchscreen.
On top of all that, I think they are pretty ugly too.
- So, really nothing to do with them being bad cars, just things you preferentially don't like.
  As I said elsewhere, I don't give a shit if anyone likes Tesla. I will consider one when I buy a new car, but I highly doubt I'll end up buying one. My issue is with this pervasive belief here that Teslas are miserable, problem-ridden, locked-down piles of junk, like many modern day printers. It just doesn't seem to line up with reality.
I really really wanted one. Now that I can afford one, I won't get one because Musk is a giant dbag. I'll wait and find something cool to do an EV conversion on.
Well yeah, on Lemmy, you'll get the anti-Musk sentiment. I honestly rarely base purchasing decisions on who the CEO happens to be, and I'll only avoid a company if I think purchasing from them actively harms either their employees, the environment, or the market as a whole (e.g. they're a monopoly).
Here's why I don't want a Tesla:
Too expensive for a commuter, not enough range for a family car (we do road trips)
Battery is pretty much unrepairable, and too expensive to just replace
Fire risk - I know it's relatively low, but my ICE cars don't have a risk of burning my house down
Can't turn off tracking, AFAIK - I don't need my car to do anything but get me from A to B, and none of that requires network access
Quality control issues - I don't want to keep going to the dealer to get recalls serviced
Crappy in the snow - I live in the Rockies
The first four are deal breakers, though to be fair the rest of the car industry is trying hard to fail point 4.
I'm looking forward to sodium-ion EVs, which promise to solve 1&3, and make replacement a lot cheaper. If I can find something that solves the first four, I'll probably buy it. I'd love to never have to fill up gas again, but I'm not giving up my privacy or ability to repair my own equipment.

How dare you. My brother laser printer is fantastic. I'm not even sure if it uses ink.

Nope... Uses toner instead, and is typically much longer lasting than ink, doesn't clog like ink, cheaper per page than ink.
Doesn't do as good at extreme quality photographs as ink but does everything else better than ink.
- An acceptable flaw for what it offers instead.
I didn’t have to scroll very far to find the comment I was looking for
- Good. The brother laser printer faith is being preached most effectively.
Oh it does use it, but that's on me printing several hundred pages two months ago. With normal usage, I'm sure it lasts years.
- We finally replaced the toner in ours after... 8 years? And it was still printing fine, I just couldn't bypass the warning anymore (started complaining at 1500, finally replaced at ~2400)
  It got us through:
  wife's immigration paperwork
  my contracting work (lots of contracts)
  lots of handouts for various community stuff
  COVID at-home school assignments
  drawing pages for the kids
  And so on. The new one should last 8k more pages, so I think I'm set pretty much forever.

I own a brother printer and never have had an issue. Only had to buy toner once in like ten years. I've had a Tesla for 3 years and will probably have to buy tires in another two years when I get to like 45,000 miles.

So yeah, this tracks I guess?

Brother printers haven't "innovated" in years, and produce fully functional printers without software lockout and freemium "features". They just make printers, and don't screw their customers. Brother is the Toyota of printers.
Tesla is the HP of printers. Deviates greatly from a standard model of a printer, locks down standard printer features, and sells them back to the customer as a service.
- Well the new brothers refuse to print when toner is low. Old ones would still print after giving the toner cartridge a shake even if the prints looked shitty.
Are those the original tires from the factory?
They wear out at 30-35k miles, just FYI. EVs weigh more than ICE ~~cars~~ sedans- it's harder on the tires.
You can buy aftermarket tires that will last much longer, but you lose the internal foam that dampens road noise. Make sure you match the tire size. EVs require fairly specific heavy-load tires.
Edit: this was experience with a Model 3 coming from a compact gas sedan as my previous car.
- A model 3 weighs under 2 tons, less than most SUVs and the same as any internal combustion car of the segment just above (BMW 5, Mercedes E class, etc).
  And most manufacturers have now tires with dampening foam, from high end sporty tires to economical low rolling resistant tires.
- Yes they are original tires. I check against bar in the tread periodically and wear is tracking about normal. When I was a kid someone watched me corner like a madman in my honda civic and said to me "wow you must really like buying tires." It really stuck with me. I had been buying tires frequently for that small car. Now I corner like a grandma and tires last forever.

Forgot to say "ink jet"...

...and "Windows 95"

You misspelled ME

Doesn't most of this stuffapply to basically all EVs?
I have done zero research and I know these dealbreakers:
Microtransactions for a car (e.g. autopilot features, features already built-in, but subscription locked)
A tablet on the dashboard is a UX nightmare, since it can't be used blindly (you should focus on the road, please).
The futuristic retracting doorhandles are a nightmare for firefighters, since you can't easily pull people out of crashed Teslas.
The whole cybertruck debacle
Wasn't the estimated reach that the car supposedly had explicitly programmed to overestimate?
Edit: aparrently, the doors are very hard/mostly impossible to open when the power goes out.
- I definitely do not want to defend Tesla here, but other manufacturers are unfortunately following the same path. It's ridiculous. BMW is putting most of the extra features into the car on a technical level, but lock them down so you can't use them unless you pay a fucking monthly subscription for e.g. the seat heaters. What the actual fuck has gotten into manufacturers?
  And the touchscreens? I'm soooo glad that the German equivalent to road and safety announced that the safety rating of cars will go down in the future if there are no haptic controls. I definitely like a sleek appearance, but form follows function for fucks sake.
  /rant
- My mom has one, and the door handles are so awkward, I really don't think I'll ever get used to them. From the inside, it's easy enough, but it's also just a button, with no physical unlatching mechanism, and the window has to go down slightly when the door opens, so I would not want to be in there if it lost power.
  She does generally like the thing though.
- Also the doors freeze closed, because the stupid window design.
- Not only EVs.
  My '19 Honda hybrid has all the same features, save being an EV (I live in an apartment and have no place to reliably charge).
- The high end Tesla's have the stupid doorhandles. The low end (Y and 3) have manual door handles, they're just recessed so you have to press the thick part in to present the handle. In practice it's a non issue unless things that are slightly different stun lock you into inaction.
  The subscription thing is overblown in my opinion.
  Autopilot is the big one where it matters. You get TACC and Auto steer on freeways for free.
  Navigation on autopilot, auto Lane change, auto park, summoning the car and moving the car through the app are all locked behind an Enhanced Autopilot option you can buy.
  FSD unlocks austosteer on city streets and auto stoping/going at stop signs and traffic lights. You can buy it outright or rent it on a month to month basis, and switch between the three modes at will.
  Most non-autopilot features are free but require internet, so you can either pay Tesla ~$9 a month for unlimited car data, or connect your car to wifi (hotspot while driving).
  I think only careoke, live traffic / satellite view on maps, and remotely interfacing with the car (viewing the car cameras through the app, etc) actually require a subscription to premium connectivity, but I'm not 100% sure those don't work over WiFi.
  oh, there's also a one-time performance package you can buy if you want to destroy your tires even faster than normal.
  And I won't defend the goofy Cybertruck (I would drive one of it had launched for at the promised price and range), but how does that existing count as a mark against owning an EV, or even a Tesla?
- Was gonna reply to your points but I'm not gonna do the research for you lol
It's honestly really hard to distinguish genuine criticism of the product from rabid Elon-hate on the internet. He's an ass, and I've read what seem like real complaints about Teslas, but the internet tends to lose all rationality when it hates someone, so I try to take anything I read with a grain of salt.
- Yeah man. People love to bash Elon and rightfully so. I live in Southern California, I drive a Tesla and a lot of my friends do also. I used to travel a lot for work, and would regularly rent nice cars for weeks on end. My Tesla is the car I've enjoyed most ever, and it's not really even close.
  Yeah it has problems. But what car doesn't? Nothing is perfect. But for me, the features that Teslas have check all the boxes in a really novel and enjoyable way.
This sounds a lot like my experience with public transport. Fuck am I glad I don't live in the US.
That just sounds like a shitload of expensive stuff to go wrong. I want my car to be as minimally computerized as possible. I can set the AC, press the garage door button, and drive myself thanks.
Uh, lol:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tesla-issues-massive-recall-2-million-vehicles-autopilot-safety-concer-rcna129486
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05/massive-trove-of-tesla-files-contains-thousands-of-safety-complaints/
https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/29/23188085/jd-power-initial-quality-study-2022-tesla-polestar-ev-decline
- Grandpa can turn cruise control on in any 20 year old car and take a nap, but everyone's fine with that. Meanwhile Tesla issues a software update to marginally improve their camera and torque based driver monitoring system that can literally tell if you're not looking at the road, and everyone loses their minds.
  JD power is paid for those 'reports' by the auto companies.
  Toyota blatantly disregarded complaints about unintended acceleration but they're still considered great cars. https://www.autosafety.org/major-recalls-toyota-sudden-acceleration/
  I get the Musk hate, but honestly his attachment to the company is probably the worst part of Tesla.
If the company was owned by a less controversial character people would not hate Teslas as much as they do. Now the logic for the most part is that hate comes first and then they look for justification after.
Are there issues with Teslas? Yeah, just like with every other car out there.
Lack of build quality and lacklustre service.
Is it still user-friendly if you need to exit in an emergency, like a fire?

Man, don't get me started on copiers....

Oof.

That is actually a more apt description for a gas car. You have to drive a car with expensive parts that break with a proprietary and expensive fuel that malfunctions if you use the wrong fuel.

Meanwhile my car sips on electrons generated from my front yard.

Not all fuel car parts are expensive unlike Tesla parts. Putting in the wrong fuel is like mixing up the ink for laser and ink jet printers. It's about Teslas not all electric cars vs all fuel cars.
Yeah but only if you buy an Audi or BMW

Elon Musk went against the establishment.

Now we hate him.

Gotta protect the establishment at all costs (those in power)

Let's attack Elon Musk!

Yeah, people tend to dislike deranged narcissistic transphobes that parrot racist dogwhistles all day while also driving multiple companies into the ground and endangering people's lives with his vehicles
- Agreed on everything, just want to make sure it's clear he's endangering people's lives by artificially restricting access to FSD. Supervised automated driving (that is, the car drives often drives itself point to point with no interventions) is statistically safer than the national average.
  The fact that access to this is behind a $12,000 paywall (outside of the currently running free trial) is limiting access to a software safety feature. This should be illegal.
- deranged
  The only thing deranged is this post.
  narcissistic
  Anyone that uses the word "narcissist" unironically is a chud.
Trump dick sucking and bible verses in his comments.

PC LOAD LETTER

`PC LOAD LETTER`