I’m 18 — and facing jail because I won’t fight for Israel

I do not believe in "nation's interest". That's the thing that made USA an aggressive state. It also means that the minorities' opinions are completely rejected. And yk politicians often like to do what people didn't ask them to do. Democracy is good but the right of choosing the country and freely leaving one must always be there

Democratic states are the abstraction of all the private interests of their citizens.

I am not sure what this means, can you clarify a bit?

You largely can choose the provider of this service,

Really? I'm from the Middle East, took me fucking ages to "change the provider".

If you’re in a country with compulsory military service, make yourself interesting for other countries and leave.

Literally not an option for 99% of people.

unless you're a US citizen which requires the extra step of completely renouncing your US citizenship or continue paying US taxes (and therefore supporting the military mostly lol) regardless of where you may live in the world

Idk much about fascism but I don't think my views are close to it. Afaik it relies on patriotism and nationalities and similar kind of stuff. I don't believe in any of that. But I do believe that my English is not the best so it can be easy to misunderstand what I say

Well at least here in Finland, where we also have conscription, you go to a normal prison and serve six months (or at least it used to be 6months, the same as the shortest conscription time). And I'd like to note that there are several options for conscription. Full military service, unarmed military service (you serve in the military but don't have to touch weapons, you'll be a backline logistics guy or some such) and civil service, which is a bit longer, but you never serve in the military (essentially you work in an old people's home or something for 13 months).

For one, we don't have a "military prison", as that's an actual prison operated by the military. Israel does have them though. Or one with several detention centers.

Secondly, because when conscripts refuse conscription, they're still civilians, as they've not been conscripted.

This one was about a reservist, so it's probably different.

However, going by the stats on...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_military_prison

... I think the numbers might've been in the figures I mentioned (compare the occupancy numbers) and because a lot of the prisoners were prisoners of war, who go to these military prisons.

My point is that while a majority opposition to the war seems unlikely, getting 1/10th, 1/20th, or even 1/50th (=2%) of people refusing like the brave woman in the article, there'd be massive issues for the Israeli prison system.

They already started trying to lift regulations of the conditions in the prisons, so they could shove them even fuller.

Well I'll forgo my dislike of linking this bullshit "news source", so we can all be on the same page, more or less.. No pun intended.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jails-running-out-of-room-due-to-war-prison-service-warns/

Eighty-four percent of those classified as security prisoners are currently living in an area of under three square meters in size, less than the legal limit, and 3,000 prisoners are now sleeping on mattresses on the floor rather than in beds.

This situation is potentially dangerous and “my biggest fear is that we will lose control over the prisoners in the prisons,” committee chairman MK Zvika Fogel (Otzma Yehudit) warned

They fear the exact problem I'm proposing would be easy-ish to exacerbate.

Last month [Nov -23], in the wake of Hamas’s devastating assault on southern Israel, lawmakers passed a bill allowing the government to declare an “incarceration emergency,” paving the way for the temporary lifting of restrictions on housing conditions for prisoners.

And another article from December:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-extends-israels-incarceration-emergency-as-prisons-near-capacity/

##Knesset extends Israel’s ‘incarceration emergency’ as prisons near capacity

According to the Israel Prison Service, 19,756 people are currently held in Israeli jails and 'within a week or two, we will reach the maximum capacity for prisoners'

They mention the max capacity as 20,000.

And these must be military prisons as well, since I don't think POW's or "security prisoners" would be held in normal prisons.

He added that some 88% of Palestinian prisoners held for terror offenses — commonly known as security prisoners, are living in spaces of “less than three square meters per prisoner.”

Some genocidal right-wing zionist maniac then went on to say how these conditions are "a summer camp" and how "Hamas killers must be kept in the lowest conditions the law allows".

And this is following a security prisoner getting a beat to death.

Anyway thanks for coming to my TED-rant.

just a bunch of indoctrinated teens

But yes, I absolutely agree.

It’s literally his first sentence…

Or you can recruit heavily in areas where folks are disadvantaged and have few options, dangling education in front of them in exchange for being willing to kill or die for you.

This is absolutely what we do in the U.S. and it's abhorrent.

I guess what I want is for nobody to be so desperate for their basic needs that they feel compelled to kill and die in war.

And if we had a country that cared for all of its citizens and didn't start wars of aggression, maybe more people would want to enlist as they have real values to protect and have a reasonable expectation that they won't be committing atrocities?

Honestly not a criticism of you or your comment. Lot's of people are advocating for the same thing; You just said it plainly.

...Anyway, this is all terrible and we absolutely can do better, starting with building community locally, mutual aid, protesting, and listening to marginalized and oppressed people's.

Conscription against the nazis invading the USSR in a war of extermination

What about the argument that it gets more buy-in and attention from the public? That if everyone has to participate, then the public will care more and hold the military more accountable? I agree that forcing people to serve a genocidal military is wrong, though. And maybe compulsory military service doesn’t hold the military accountable (see Israel). Or maybe that is further proof that the Israeli population supports the IOF

Conscientious objectors are not jailed.

Anyone can just do community service roles instead of the military. Sounds like only people who completely refuse to help out at all are punished.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherut_Leumi

Sherut Leumi (Hebrew: שירות לאומי, lit. 'National Service') is an alternative voluntary form of national service in Israel, as opposed to the mandatory military conscription prevalent in the country. It is designed for individuals who do not meet the eligibility criteria for service in the Israel Defense Forces, or who hold conscientious objections to military enlistment. The program primarily was created for religious Jewish girls aged 17 to 24, although it is open to all applicants who cite diverse grounds for their decision.

The majority work in schools, but can also work in places such as special education, administration, hospitals,[3] law, geriatrics, nursing homes, health clinics, teens at risk, internal security, disadvantaged communities, immigrant assistance, and many other organizations. Acceptance is based on an interview via a placement organizations that try to find the youth appropriate skills, interests, and needs.