Falkland's sovereignty 'not up for discussion' Britain warns after new Argentinian president vows to 'get them back'
Falkland's sovereignty 'not up for discussion' Britain warns after new Argentinian president vows to 'get them back'
'Get them back'. What does 'back' even mean in this statement? Of all the countries that have ever legitimately ruled the Falklands, Argentina was never one of them.
The penguins have a better claim to the Falklands than Argentina...
I agree it's more British than Argentinian. But "Argentina never one of the rulers" isn't quite right. There were several stints of Argentinan (or Spanish but back when that was the same thing) occupation long before the war.
Yeah, Spanish. That's the point. There were penguins, then was French, it was Spanish, it was British. It was never Argentinian. There were never civilians there.
The only civilians who have lived there are the Falkland Islanders, who identify as British. Argentina's claim is based on the Spanish once having a very limited military presence there, on which basis they want to assert some sort of imperialist sovereignty over a bunch of civilians whose ancestors have been there for hundreds of years and who have only ever considered themselves British.
That would give Spain a claim on them then, not the country that exists because it said it was not Spain.
Malvinas islans are legally and physically part of Argentina and this is accepted by a majority in the UN, they are also the symbol of the centrist liberals (imagine the island of the statue of liberty) so this new neonazi psycho (and elon fan redditor) wants to "eliminate" their symbols including the ministries, universal health care, education systems, social plans that support several million of poor and make their party illegal
Just a reminder: that there was no one living in the Falklands prior to the UK and France showing up. My understanding is that no one even wanted the islands until they found oil nearby. While it's weird that the UK has a colony all the way down at the tip of South America, there's no reason to argue for Argentinian ownership of the Falklands. Hell, Argentina taking ownership of the Falklands is more colonialist than UK maintaining ownership due to the population being mostly British and French.
I personally think calling them a colony is incorrect. They are an island where UK citizens live and have lived since the beginning of human habitation. They get to vote. They have the same culture and want to stay in the UK. The only thing that matches the colonial definition is that they are far away which is a relative term.
I think the people living there are technically indigenous.
I mean the original US states were also British colonies with ethnically British people having fairly British culture. They just revolted over unfair taxes and the culture diverged with immigration of other Europeans.
The main difference between the pre revolution colonies and the Falklands is that there weren't any natives on the Falklands that had to be removed first, and the Falklands are much smaller and less important.
They are an island where UK citizens live and have lived since the beginning of human habitation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute
beginning of human habitation
They're not Aboriginal though.
My understanding is that no one even wanted the islands until they found oil nearby.
Bingo!
there’s no reason to argue for Argentinian ownership of the Falklands. Hell, Argentina taking ownership of the Falklands is more colonialist than UK maintaining ownership
The United Nations says otherwise.
The Wiki page is really interesting reading on the ownership of that island, really jumps around over the centuries.
This one part of the article really jumps out at me...
That self-determination is further rendered inapplicable due to the disruption of the territorial integrity of Argentina that began with a forceful removal of its authorities in the islands in 1833, thus there is a failure to comply with an explicit requirement of UN Resolution 1514 (XV).[93][94]
Heh, getting tired of copy/pasting this link, but so many bad takes are being stated as fact on this topic...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute
I met an Argentinian, and she is still upset about the Falklands. It made an impression on me that Argentines are still not over it. Don't get me wrong, she is a nice lady, but I'm guessing that nationalism is Argentina's past time instead of fixing their own more critical domestic issues. Tribalism is a time tested tool used to distract and manipulate people, anyhow.
Argentinian leaders use nationalism as a distraction for their economic woes – it's why the Falkland war started in the first place, the president wanted something to make citizens focus on other than the declining state of the country, and grabbing some land from a greater power to get a bunch of glory seemed like a great option, especially considering they didn't think the UK would actually retaliate or even care. The reason they went for it is they thought the British didn't give a damn about the Falklands, seeing as how they constantly denied giving the island economic support. Oh boy, were they wrong.
Because of the war, Argentinians now see not having the Falkland islands as a detriment to their national pride, they think it's soveirgn Argentinian territory... even though everyone living on the island has always been and still is almost entirely Anglo-Franco-descendent, and not once did Argentina actually have claim to the islands until recently in history...
Argentinian leaders use nationalism as a distraction for their economic woes
Tale as old as time...
Yeah, it has been over 40 years since the end of Falklands War and many Argentines are still bitter about it. Maybe not all of them but a huge portion are.
And as far as I could remember, Argentina has been suffering from economic woes. They are in similar situation with Japan in having a stagnant economy. Not growing but not contracting either. The Argentines should focus on their domestic issues first than picking fights and beating a dead horse.
even though everyone living on the island has always been and still is almost entirely Anglo-Franco-descendent, and not once did Argentina actually have claim to the islands until recently in history
That's not true. They feel that they inherited the islands fair and square from Spain when they won their independence from Spain, who were on the islands before anyone else. The UN agrees, and officially asked Great Britain to give the islands back to Argentina.
Ask an American southerner about the civil war sometimes.
Shitheads are gonna shithead no matter how far removed they are from the supposed inciting incident
Your statement assumes that they don't actually have a real right to the islands, and that they are doing what they are doing just for other 'human failings' reasons.
Why would they, they're not indigenous to the area either. It's all bullshit. Nobody has a great claim, but they (the islanders) want to be British, so that should really be enough.
Argentina lost and people living in the Falklands voted to remain with UK numerous times. Making comparisons with voting in occupied Ukraine is not the same because those living in occupied territories of Ukraine were coerced. Local Falklanders voted numerous times under a free and fair election. Get over it. That's like Spain still trying to claim Puerto Rico, Cuba and Philippines after they lost them to the Americans in 1890s.
Argentines should focus on fixing their country first instead of crying sour grapes over a territory they have no viable claim to begin with, and lost a war over it. Philippines have a similar case with North Sabah, which is administered by Malaysia; yet Filipinos did not and would not think of going to war with Malaysia because they have their plates full instead of wasting time with blind nationalism. Argentines are being manipulated by their leaders to ignore economic woes.
As an American from Argentinian parents, let me put it to you this way.
Would the US get over China taking Hawaii away from them? Especially if it's just so they can control the oil rights in that area.
Because “getting them back” worked so well for the (not for long) ruling regime of Argentina last time around. Lol.
Just for who didn't know the story: in order to distract the population from a 120% inflation, the ruling far right dictator decided to take back the islands, (sounds similar?) thinking that the us would support them and that the UK wouldn't fight back.
Anyway the UK is very far and it would take months to send reinforcements, right? And the US loves us, just because we're not communists like other neighbors. We gonna just take them back with a special military operation, no war declaration needed.
While for a short time it worked as the local media was ecstatic about getting back the Malvinas islands and didn't talk anymore about the rampant inflation, it eventually backfired spectacularly and the fascist regime was overturned.
Are we just doing out of order reruns of the 20th century?
Oh God. Pls no. 🇩🇪
Gotta get people reading more history textbooks and visiting more 20th-century museums. Some, like the Holocaust Museum in DC, are about as pleasant as getting a fishhook caught in your open eye. Which is some of the most compelling arguments for peace I've ever seen. The pictures are etched into my mind decades later, and I still remember the smell of all the leather shoes in there.
I'd like to visit France and Belgum and Italy soon to see the WW1 sites. We've done Normandy and WW2 across Europe and the Pacific. It's also incredibly somber arguments for peace.
Are we just doing out of order reruns of the 20th century?
When it comes to humans, it's been my experience that if you don't resolve issues they come back to bite you in the ass, at some point.
Lol I was wondering just yesterday how long it would take this guy to bring up the Falklands after getting elected.
Normally right-wingers in the UK would be pleased to see someone like him elected, but because of the Argentina-Falklands connection, they're going to hate him lmao
I mean the Falklands war did Thatcher no harm.
I think they're going to love him.
If I remember it correctly the whole Falklands affair worked wonders for Thatcher's popularity.
Mind you, these types have been gutting everything in Britain including the military, so who knows what the outcome would be in a Falklands War v2.
Argentina has esentially no navy to speak of, and what it can field would be conpletely smashed by the typhoons stationed on the islands.
Milei is a lot less focused on the Falklands than the presidents before him. Every Argentinian politician says "we have to get the Falklands back". It's literally in their constitution. Milei says that Thatcher legit kicked their asses and they should try diplomatic means, and maybe try not having 140% inflation so that the islanders would be less opposed to becoming Argentinian.
On a differrent note: What would anybody want of the Falkland Islands? I mean, it is a lousy island with 3000 inhabitants and half a million sheep, and they live of fishing, wool, and day tourism from cruise ships.
On the one hand, maintaining a military presence equivalent to more than half the number of native inhabitants costs the British a shitload of money. On the other hand, starting another bloody war with the UK in the middle of an economic catastrophe over a piece of rock with sheep does not make any sense for Argentina, either.
On a differrent note: What would anybody want of the Falkland Islands?
Oil in the nearby ocean ownership is the reason why.
Its the way international treaties work as far as claiming ownership of resources in the ocean.
It's about the territorial waters that come with them
Falklands nascent oil industry + giving the population a rallying cry to distract from poor economic conditions.
Nationalist Kvetch entirely, those are Brits on the island, not just British citizens, full on ethnically British Islanders who've lived there almost since anyone knew the islands were there to begin with.
When polled they overwhelmingly voted in favor of remaining with the UK
Falklands are as British as black pudding and the royal corgis. Argentina just keeps pressing the claim because it makes a good nationalist distraction whenever right wing nutcases inevitably prove to be completely incompetent.
Also, any attempt to link it with some overarching notion of decolonization is complete bunk, the islands were uninhabited before they were discovered it's only colonialism if you think the very concept of an exclave is colonialist because that's in effect what they are, a very far removed exclave.
those are Brits on the island, not just British citizens, full on ethnically British Islanders
Why are you mentioning this? Does that mean they're worth saving more than a citizen who isn't "ethnically British"?
What is that anyway? The UK is a collection of countries: England, Scotland, etc. Is there a hierarchy of British ethnicities in your mind? You implied that there is some separation between certain groups, so you must have thought about it. Right?
He has said he wants a diplomatic solution similar to the one that Britain reached with China over Hong Kong.
Wonderful example. What happened to Hong Kong is something that no place in the world really wants to experience.
Yeah the reason HK went the way it did was because China could credibly say "Give it to us or we take it". Argentina already tried the take it by force way, when their military was in a much better state than it is now, and there was effectively no military garrison on the islands. Argentina have pretty much zero leverage here.
last I heard, the people on falkland don't want to be argentinian either.
Which should be the biggest, and loudest, reason to oppose Argentinian demands for the island.
Hong Kong was a completely different situation as the British signed a specific lease for Hong Kong with a set end date that was known all along. Nothing like that happened with the Falklands.
This happens every couple of years, as a populist move in Argentina to avoid tackling the real issues.
The UK will have a nice chuckle, will make some empty threats about protecting its people if needed, and we'll all move on.
What worries me is that this seems to improve the opinion of those in power, and last time the Falklands came up Theresa May loved every second of it because she could act out her Thatcher cosplay fantasies.
I miss the images of her wearing the same goddamn outfits as Thatcher. Shit was surreal.
Well, if another curbstomping by Britain is what it takes to run this addle-brained right wing moron out of office in short order, then perhaps that's a silver lining.
@Thrashy @thehatfox As long as it doesn’t get the bloody Tories reelected.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sunak had slipped them a backhander so he could be like Thatcher.
Argentina: we will retake Las Malvinas!
Royal Navy: Oh really? Try it. We'd really like a chance to demonstrate the combat effectiveness of our QE2 Class Carriers. And Bob here hasn't shot his destroyer's deck guns since '82 and he's bored!
RAF: (Rapidly dusting off the Vulcans and Nimrods)
Royal Marines: (Lights up a Benson & Hedges cigarette)... Right... (Slaps knees and stands up)... Grab yer Bergens and Bayonets lads!
I really hope Argentina doesn't hand the UK's faltering Conservative government a nice patriotic war just before the next election. If they hadn't done that in 1982 we might have seen the back of Thatcher before the worst damage was done.
I mean, the Brits might be chomping at the bit for it. I mean with Brexit and all, I'm pretty sure it's been greyer than usual in the UK. Nothing like completely mopping up some country trying to invade your land to put on a slightly brighter disposition.
That said, I think Milei has mostly been talking about attempting to get them back diplomatically. Which I'm highly doubtful anyone remotely responsible for making that kind of decision in the UK is vaguely affable towards entertaining. Just a hunch.
@ThePyroPython @thehatfox The Vulcans were not useful the first time, and they have been scrapped for a very long time.
There are Eurofighter Typhoons based there, with plenty more able to get there in hours (the Typhoon has Mach 1.5 supercruise and a long ferry range, just take off a tanker from Mount Pleasant to meet them with more fuel en route).
Given the Typhoons can carry bombs as well as being air superiority fighters, the RAF would not need to dust off anything.
I'm aware the Vulcans have been scrapped, I was just memeing.
I saw the Vulcan's last flight as Cosford Airshow about 10 years ago. The sheer size of that aircraft flying overhead at under 100ft, the rumble and roar of the engines will stay with me for a lifetime. It was an awesome aircraft.
OK, so maybe you can explain this, many things all over western Canada are naned for "Mount Pleasant", a cemetery in Swift Current, a neighborhood in Vancouver, it pops up all over, and no one seems to know why, what or anything about the term, from old timers to Google.
our QE2 Class Carriers
Plural? Huh, TIL they've got more than one of them.
(I always found it kind of crazy and hilarious that the US has like 10 CATOBAR nuclear-powered carriers and then also a bunch of STOVL diesel-powered ones that we don't even bother counting as "carriers," when every other country has maybe one or a few at best, and most of those are STOVL or worse. I guess the last time I counted was before 2017, though.)
During world War II, the United States had over 150 aircraft carriers which would be the equivalent of a wasp class amphibious assault ship/helicopter carrier.
Soooo trouble in Middle East is back from standby and Argentina is making demands about the Falklands. How about we just stop there and let other famous Conflicts in pease. * sweats in german *
Sorgerechtsverhandlung für Elsass Lothringen 2024?
Nee danke. Ich bin mit den Besuchsrecht zufrieden
Uh, last I checked, Britannia rules the waves, not the Falklands. Checkmate, Margaret.
"Now we have to see how we are going to get them back. It is clear that the war option is not a solution."
If more people actually read instead of knee-jerk reacting to click-bait headlines they might have a better understanding of what is going on around them.
Yeah because it would be such a great Idea just to straight up say :"I'm going to attack you. But please don't prepare or anything. Just act surprise."
@thehatfox What's he going to use as his main military weapon for this conquest? Harsh language?
He'll fart in their general direction. That'll show them!
He'll send an army of dog ghosts.
Yeah, Argentina is about to explode into civil war. That place is going to be real dangerous in the next few months.
Oh so THIS is how ww3 starts
I wouldn’t call the Falkland Islands War 2: Electric Boogaloo “WW3”. More like a police action, to be honest. The Argentine Navy and Air Force these days is frankly laughable in comparison to their military strength before the first FI war, let alone the strength of the RN and RAF today.
I think this one is just populist sabre rattling.
Maybe we'll have a nice Article 5 party this time.
Step 1: dissolve central bank
Step 2: piss off capitalists
Step 3: ???
Step 4: profit
Ok compromise. Argentina gets them back but the British museum gets whatever they want from them first.
The thing is, Argentina has never had the Falkland Islands. The British discovered them first.
The Falklands were empty until fairly recently in archeological time, so there isn't really anything interesting there.
Inb4 the British core sample the entire island and cart it off in dirt barges
There are so many of those things, I say everyone gets to keep an emotional support island
그리고 독도는 한국 땅!
.z .,-,-..**x Z **********
The guy might be a nutjob but I don't think he's talking about getting them back through war, Argentina has next to no military.
Having colonies in the year 2023 is ridiculous though, I don't know why so many comments act like Britain is in the right here in any way whatsoever.
Since when were the Falklands an example of colonialism? Nobody lived there until the Europeans showed up.
If you think the Falklands should be part of Argentina, logically Hawaii should be part of Kiribati. Alaska should be Russian/Canadian, etc etc. If you think about it for more than a minute it becomes clear that geographical location is not the only factor or even the most important one.
Wait, can we give Sarah Palin to Canada? Seems like a fair trade to me.
geographical location is not the only factor or even the most important one
I'm pretty sure that if another country took over Hawaii, or the Catalina Islands off the coast of California, especially just for being able to put a marker down on future oil reserves, that the US would not be ok with that claim.
Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute .
Agreed about owning colonies. But that's not what this is.
Say what you will. I find it a bit insane that a country can just own an island like that which is nowhere even near their mainland. If you just look at the map it's quite obvious to who that land belongs to.
Something like Hawai is a more difficult case since it's in the middle of ocean. Maybe it should just be a sovereign nation.
EDIT: Though since most people living there are native born Falkland islanders that speak English and voted to stay as a part of the UK then it's perhaps something we should leave be as it is. Kind of similar case as with Israel to be honest.
If you just look at the map it’s quite obvious to who that land belongs to.
Denmark isn't going to be happy about having to give Greenland to Canada but I guess it is what it is.
I'm not advocating for UK to give Falklands to Argentina. It's too late now. Otherwise yes, makes no sense for Denmark to have Greenland either.
If we're going by proximity, there's some Caribbean nations that are even closer to the US than the Falklands are to Argentina, would you argue that we should annex Cuba or the Bahamas?
And from what I understand, the people of the Falklands overwhelming want to be a British territory. I think that's probably the more important consideration.
It is wild that it came to be the way it is. It certainly doesn't make sense to me in the world before modern air travel, the internet, etc. that they'd be ruled by a country so far away, but in this modern era where just about anywhere in the world is only about a day's travel time, or available on-demand 24/7 by phone or computer, it makes every bit as much sense to me that they be a UK territory as it does that Alaska is a US state.
Hawaii is actually a pretty interesting comparison to make, because most Hawaiians did not want to become a US territory at the time, but that's really begging a whole 'nother discussion with lots of complex talking points about imperialism/colonialism, indigenous rights, etc. but I'm frankly just not going to go into that right now. Suffice it to say that it's similar in the sense of it being a small island territory located far from the colonial power that laid claim to it, but the attitudes of the people living there were very different.
I'm no historian or anything of the sort, so take my thoughts on this for what it's worth (and I am certainly biased being an American, don't exactly get a whole lot of Argentinian history books to study, and most of the Spanish I know is food-related, so if someone wants to enlighten me more on the Argentinian side of things, I welcome the education.) But in general my understanding is that the British were the first people to land there, didn't really do much with it at that time, and pretty much just said "finders keepers"
Maybe worth noting, there were no indigenous inhabitants there, so that's probably about as ethical as colonization can get.
Then France showed up and set up shop since the British weren't doing anything with it. Britain came back and also set up shop, and it's not totally clear if either of them even knew the other was there. France eventually decided to fuck off, and let Spain have their bit of the Falklands.
Spain and Britain coexisted for a while, had some scuffles, but more or less worked things out. Eventually Britain pulled out to focus on other things but still considered their "finders keepors" claim to be valid.
Spain eventually pulled out as well, so for a little while no one was really doing much of anything with it officially.
Argentina (technically Buenos Aires at the time if we want to split hairs, I'm going to just use Argentina and Britain to keep the sides easy to follow) comes along, and decides it's theirs, and this is pretty much the root of the dispute. While Britain still held their claim of "finders keepers" Argentina countered with "losers weepers"
Argentina gave some German dude permission to set up a colony for them there to fish and hunt feral cows. Eventually he gets into a fight with an American navy captain over fishing and hunting rights, Captain America kicks their ass a bit and declares the colonial government disolved, and pretty much continues on his merry way. Argentina tries to get things there started back up again but never quite gets their shit back together in the Falklands. A little while later the Brits come back around, still claiming finders keepers, and take charge of everything again, and this time the colonies stick and continue to grow. Argentina spends the next hundred years or so muttering "this is bullshit" to themselves.
Around the 1960s, Britain starts talking about decolonizing, and Argentina gets excited thinking they're going to finally get the Falklands. Britain even quietly floats the idea of giving them the islands, figuring the Islanders would just kind of accept that decision if it was made, and running these islands from halfway around the world was getting kind of expensive. Turns out though that pretty much everyone on the Falklands is pretty damn happy to be British subjects and don't really want to be part of Argentina, which made things a bit complicated.
Argentina gets kind of impatient with all of this, and eventually decided "fuck it, we'll just take them ourselves," Britain cannot abide Argentina's inability to wait patiently in the queue and was starting to really wrap their heads around the idea that the Falklands would rather stay part of Britain and so we get the Falklands war.
Britain wins, Argentina goes back to muttering to themselves, and that pretty much brings us up to the present day.
Great comment! Accurate and entertaining to read. Well done! Was giving up hope, after reading so many bad factual takes on the ownership situation on this topic.
I've been posting the wiki link about the conflict all over this topic. If people ended up not reading that link, I would hope that they read your comment at least.
While Britain still held their claim of “finders keepers” Argentina countered with “losers weepers”
One minor quibble, and to be fair, Argentina is claiming based on the fact that Spain owned the islands, and when Argentina won their independence from Spain, they also got the islands.
People lived on Hawaii since time immemorial. They had a proper Kingdom and everything with the US meddling with putsches and coups, then they had a Republic, then the US annexed the whole thing, very much not with consent of the Hawaiians. That was 1898, statehood was granted in 1959. The Falklands were uninhabited, settled first by the French in 1764. They also enjoy autonomy in everything but foreign relations and defence and if they wanted to they would readily be granted independence, the situation couldn't be more different. Practically speaking the relation of the Falklands to the UK is much more similar than that of Greenland to Denmark than that of, say, Indiana to the US federal government, which is the exact relationship Hawaii has with the federal government.
Also it's not by far the largest European overseas territory, that'd be French Guyana. Who btw overwhelmingly voted against becoming an overseas collectivity, they kept their status as "just another department" with no more autonomy than the departments in Europe. European colonialism died pretty much exactly with Algerian independence, what's left are a flurry of overseas territories which we couldn't get rid of if we wanted because they want to stay, politically, part of Europe.
Hawaii used to be a sovereign nation.
@ThornyInsight @thehatfox There are a thousand kilometres of open ocean between Argentina and the Falklands.
There are a thousand kilometres of open ocean between Argentina and the Falklands.
If you look at the map on the above link, that distance is not straight East to West, its to the center of Argentina, SE to NW. I checked a couple of web sites, and they all measure a longer, diagonal distance, that gives a false impression of longer distances.
If you use the Google Maps measuring tool, and you measure from the West coast of the islands to the East coast of Argentina, going directly East to West, you get this answer ...
Total distance: 338.20 mi (544.28 km)
The Malvinas are allot closer than Hawaii is to the US.
find it a bit insane that a country can just own an island like that which is nowhere even near their mainland. If you just look at the map it’s quite obvious to who that land belongs to.
The UN agrees with you, and asked Great Britain to give the islands back to Argentina.
Not quite.
The Special Committee on Decolonization concluded its 2021 substantive session today, approving 18 draft resolutions, including one requesting that the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom resume negotiations as soon as possible to reach a peaceful resolution of their sovereignty dispute over the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)*.
There was a fight for them and they're still British. There was a referendum and the islanders overwhelmingly want to stay British.
The UN asked Great Britain to give the island back to Argentina, but they refused.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute
You keep saying this, I'm starting to question your ability to read or understand english.
That’s what you understood after reading the page you linked?