Chrome not proceeding with Web Integrity API deemed by many to be DRM

K, I'm still not using Google search engine anymore. And once I find a replacement for any other Google services and devices I have, it's out with those as well.

Both leaving reddit and leaving google s.e. were two things that I thought would be harder than they were.
- Just need to install Linux as your primary OS and your transition to software freedom will be complete.
- Leaving google isn't hard.
  Leaving YouTube specifically, however... Well, it's been getting easier as content seems to be less and less frequent or quality.
- I still worry that leaving Reddit is going to make it tilt to the right. I spent a decade posting there in the hopes that it would nudge people towards sanity.
- leaving reddit is easy leaving google is pretty damn difficult
- The hard part is the cost difference (I haven't looked terribly deeply yet) Family Proton (3TB) is 395 AUD (when you sign up for 2 years)
  2 TB, 125 AUD per year for google drive, and it's per year.
  Pro-rata that's literally twice as expensive, and you have to sign up for 2 years to get that rate, which makes moving my stuff a hard pill to swallow :(
  Is there a plug and play service that's as good as proton without the hefty premium?
  (The single plans are even more steep, 24 months, 158 AUD per year for only 500 GB...)
This is something I wrote in another thread earlier but it's relevant here too
A security guy popular in the internet, Ollam, recently left Delta's program because they are changing it to be more pay to play vs miles traveled or something. Delta walked it back but he's sticking to his guns. In his rant, he said something poignant. Something to the effect of "if your significant other raises their hand like they're gonna hit you, but they don't? The time to leave is now." (Video)
(Quote)
I replaced gmail with protonmail and everything else with nextcloud. Couldn't go back.
- Hosting your own nextcloud I’m guessing?
  If so how did you install it?
- After a lot of privacy switching I finally did try NextCloud, but I couldn't get port forwarding to work on my Internet and gave up... For now
- Question: can email from gmail be imported into proton mail?
- Based
Honestly. Off the back of this debacle I switched to Firefox and duckduckgo. Previously I used to use the shit out of incognito because I hated that when I searched for something once that I then get that thing popping up everywhere else in ads etc. Since the switch I no longer get the feeling of being stalked.
- NoScript helps a lot, too. I suppose other extensions also. It’s horrifying how many sites embed Google and Facebook tracking, including ones that really shouldn’t like medical sites and banks.
My concern is saving my email and photos before my account is randomly banned one day with no customer service and no recourse. God only knows what data they already harvested from when I used to back up my photos with their service.
- Just grab a copy using Google Takeout, then after that use Syncrify, FolderSync, Resilio Sync or something else to automatically copy your phone media to your computer.
On the topic of this, what is the best alternative out there? A few years ago I've tried a couple options, out of curiosity, but the search quality was super poor for anything that's not in English, and the accuracy of found content wasn't always there
- I reckon Kagi is the best search engine out there. It's paid though. Second I'd have Qwant followed by DDG.
- Best? Kagi. Best free? Probably bing or searx
https://ecosia.org as a search engine :) Uses bing in the background (and newly also google), but your data isn't sold (AFAIK).
Or https://duckduckgo.com
If you want opensource there's YaCy
- I'm on Kagi but I did the one time payment and am unsure about whether I'll extend. Results are good but 10 dollars a month isn't insignificant (cheap plan is orders of magnitude less than what I need in searches)
- I used Ecosia for a long time (almost 5 years) but the search results are pretty bad. Often I had to use another search engine to actually find what I was looking for. DuckDuckGo is pretty good, Brave Search is OK as well but SearXNG is my personal favorite.
- I adjusted my entire digital life so I can do everything without ever connecting to Google services. I block them in my self-hosted Pi-Hole, on NextDNS and in my OPNsense Firewall.

They're just starting it smaller scale. Within a year it'll be pushed out to everyone broadly.

This is literally going to be what they did for FLoC. Basically release it as topics.
Google absolutely cannot stop tracking everyone at this point. I'm pretty sure they've put the entire house on the bet to track people more and do everything to ensure that Google Chrome tracks every aspect of your web browsing experience.
So while WEI is dead, I think Google's boat is so far out to sea now that it's either try this again a bit more gently or watch the ship sink. Everyone said FLoC was dead and they absolutely put it into the web browser with Topics. Nothing convinces me this is any different, they are absolutely going to, and I dare say have an existential need to, put this shit in everyone's browser.
They get the permissions for the little thing that is worded vaguely enough to them funnel people into the larger thing

I'd like to believe that enough of us actually stopped using chrome and switched to Firefox the day they made that announcement that swayed them... But in reality I'm sure it was just the bad press and they're going to try to find a different more sneaky way to do the same shit.

I've been using Firefox since it was Mozilla.
- Amateur. I've been using Firefox since Netscape Navigator.
- I strayed away over IE6, then Chrome v1.0 for a short period, but then came back to my senses.
From now on, the only browser I’m installing is Firefox.
Chrome market share actually has been declining on desktops since this spring. Could be a factor
Can you actually stop using chrome on android? Because every link I click it opens in their webview app which is chrome
- Dunno if this is what you mean, but you can definitely set another browser as default. Any context menus will change too: "Open with Firefox", or w/e you're using.
- I've been using Firefox for a couple months now, no issues.
- Yeah there is a setting and now when I click links it opens in Firefox. But if you use the Google search widget it still opens in chrome, which is to be expected I guess.
To be fair I still think Google services, Microsoft, etc and all that jazz is great, I'm no corporate shill or some free software nutter, but the issue however is the consistent anticompetitive strategies and vendor lock-in used to compensate for a lack of innovation.
Imagine if you could, for about a month, up to a year long period, where you just use a de-googled phone, a live USB and a portable hard drive, you'll actually have a different perspective and appreciation for what works with computers, printers, etc and our use of technology as a whole
Actually right now Congress is writing new laws for the Internet, and the EU is looking pretty hard as well, so they might be backing off just so they can get the new laws being written minimized.

Not proceeding for now.

Yes, something tells me that they will just switch to attempting to introduce this piecemeal so that fewer people will notice what's going on.

'Heard your feedback' is becoming the death flag of future fuckery these last few years

more like they realised that the Irish data protection officer looked like they were gonna side with privacy advocates over anti-adblock, which is a precursor (and main usecase of) this API
- Irish data protection office
  I had to look this one up.
  https://www.digitalguardian.com/blog/irish-data-protection-puts-google-notice-data-privacy-again
  edit: that's from 2020 about google, not chrome

Bet they'll just rename it later, like what they did with FLoC to Ad Topics.

What's funny is how these companies refer to ads as if it's something we should be excited about.
"Good news! We're implementing a new ad delivery feature for your enjoyment! You can now choose what ads to watch, yay!"

That usually means they will have something worse at a later time.

The most likely option is that they will rebrand and we will have to push back against a "completely new, completely different functionality" in a few months.
They have to figure out how to apply DRM to YouTube first.
- I mean, Widevine is present in all browsers and actively used by Netflix for example. YouTube also uses this when you're watching movies on YouTube Movies.
  Not running DRM on the majority of YouTube content is also likely due to the added cost of running such encryption (the encryption is usually on a per-customer level, not one key fits all) and the added bandwidth and computer cycles required. Not to mention that this might be a legal struggle with the content creators.
Yeah, it makes me worried about what they have planned to replace it.

They had some of those changes already checked into their code base. It'll be interesting to see how much of that code comes back out.

My money is on zero. They'll comment it out and then turn it back on when no one is looking.
- Comment out? Nah, they'll just put it behind a feature flag so it keeps passing the tests.

The Advert People are easily startled, but they'll soon be back, and in greater numbers.

...yet.

Yeah gotta wait for the heat on this antitrust probe to die down before doing the dirty.

This is your wake up to stop using Chrome and Chromium based browsers (e.g. Brave, Vivaldi, etc). Switch to Firefox if you haven't already.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/

Tbf, I have tried but on Android the performance is dogshit. There is a few seconds difference between Firefox loading pages and Chrome loading unfortunately.
If there was a third option I'd gladly take it, but for now Firefox just doesn't have the functionality and I'm willing to put up with the current state of Google shit. If it gets much worse I may just have to suck it up though.
- I use Fennec (fork of Firefox)
the real problem will begin when big websites start blocking unverified browsers. it means the end of spam and ad blockers, but it also means the end of privacy.
My biggest problem is the security and sandboxing around Firefox. I use both, but I feel my passwords are safer in Chrome tbh
- I use Firefox on Mobile with the bitwarden addon. Works well for me. Plus you export all your saved Google passwords into bitwarden. I need to make the switch on my PC now.

Disgusting piece of craps! All should continue to open eyes, against google. They wont stop!

Spread the word to install firefox based browser, use different frontends to block youtube ads in browser, Invidious and use piped youtube apps on android to block youtbe ads: Newpipe

This should never be left up to Chrome. We need antitrust laws.

We'll see how this shakes out in a year.

Eternal vigilance is the price for a free web.

Do we get freedom with it or do we have to double eternal vigilance to get both? 🤔
- I believe the scale is n * log2(n).
- Yes.

the web has been getting so shitty lately i've actually gotten into drawing and reading and vinyl and film, which i highly recommend as a backup plan; just the idea of this feels like the atomic bomb for the internet

The mainstream web... yes.
The back of the house has never been fucking better. Mastodon changed the game. Why hang out at some asshole's website, hating the website, lacking features and full of advertisements to suck you dry, when you can just come down to the flea market of federated social media and shoot the shit with someone real?
- "Flea market of federated social media" is an awesome description!

Moving it to WebView just makes it a Trojan horse for the rest of the web.

Isn't Webview just a proprietary Android thingy? I still don't like it, but that sounds pretty isolated to me.
- I think Android WebView is open source as part of AOSP, but yes, it is Android only.

The "don't be evil" motto was replaced with "don't be evil, but greedy and posessive is okay"

And then later edited to
“~~don’t be evil, but~~ greedy and posessive is okay”
- Soon after it changes to it's final form:
  “~~don’t be evil, but~~ greed ~~y and posessive is okay~~”

That's the problem. They could have made it a requirement for a site to work in Chrome. And since Chrome has such a majority sites would have to comply. Then the other browsers would have to fall in line or just stop working with most websites. Google's monopoly is complete enough that they can dictate how the web works. You need to both care what chrome does and care that other people are still using it or you're just as fucked as they are.
- Please, people, stop using Chromium-based browsers and handing Google a near-monopoly. Firefox is awesome and has even more privacy-oriented derivates.
- Yeah, the current management is so horny to have Chrome be the next Internet Explorer like that. So sad Google has fallen so far.
- I'm not sure on stats or anything, I know Google has paid a lot of money to get Chrome as a default browser, but I remember a time when it became ubiquitous because the family nerd would tell their parents to use it and so on. It could possibly happen again and have a lot of people switch to firefox because their favourite site stopped working on Chrome. It's the kind of plan that could backfire pretty bad. There's a lot of legal reasons for their hesitance I'm sure, but I think that sort of thing would also play into it. A bunch of parents calling up their children because something stopped working and being told to download firefox isn't outside the scope of reality I don't think.

"We've decided not to pursue Web Integrity API."

"Oh great! But what's that giant thing under the tarp behind you"

"Oh don't worry..."

we already have play integrity and now we have this webview attestation now?

Floc returned as something else, we will see this come back I am certain

One small victory to fend off the cancer that is current year google.

You did it everyone! Good job!

Way too early to celebrate hombre. Don't do this to yourself.

While this "battle" may be won for now, I've no doubt Google will simply try to implement this in a different way with less backlash.

Ah, let me guess, now Google's gonna get everyone and their sister to move all their content to apps...

They already have. I can barely go to a mobile page that isn't broken or doesn't have a pop up I must dismiss telling me it's better in the app when it most certainly is not. Some things I use have let their desktop web pages go into disrepair and when I contact them with my issues logging in they just tell me to use the app and that their site has been down for months. Gotta force that tracking and those arbitration clauses somehow.
- Tell them that you don't own a smartphone and that you can't use their product.
  Might not solve the issue in the short run, but eventually they'll hopefully realize that a desktop site is important as well.

Good! Now we just need to degoogle everything else on the internet.

Rriiiiiiiigghhhhtt.

I'll just be standing over here, watching them not do that.

I absolutely do not trust Chrome or the google team. It does not make me feel any better the only barrier to them trying to ruin a internet a bit is some backlash.

Web Integrity API proposal is what happens when Big Tech takes over the internet.

I have not followed this stuff very closely. Here's a question. This article says:

People took issue with how the Web Integrity API would bring DRM to the open web.

Has there not been DRM on the web for many years by now for videos?

This is worse. Let's go with an example: on an Android phone, you visit a website. The website asks for an integrity check, the browser works with Google Play Services to complete the check.
What if you have a de-Googled phone without Play Services, or if you made modifications to restrict Google's tracking? Then Google can refuse to verify you. What if you installed an ad blocker in your browser? Google can refuse to verify you.
If you fail verification, the website could ask you to complete a captcha, or just refuse to show you anything.
This would bring DRM to everything on the internet. If you wanted to get grandma's apple brown betty recipe even the text would be unavailable unless your browser and the page agree that it should happen. And the browser wouldn't give the OK unless the page is advertiser friendly, and the page won't give the greenlight if you've blocked any ads recently.

The Media Integrity API is something that streaming video services want and applies only to Android apps that are built on web technologies. This has nothing to do with conventional web experiences or even the Chrome browser on Android: it's effectively a solution for when media is served on webpages that are embedded inside an Android app.

Typically an Android app will use native libraries like ExoPlayer to request and serve DRM content, for instance a video from a paid streaming service to ensure that the viewer is permitted to watch it. Chrome is built on top of open video codecs and doesn't inherently support DRM in this manner (as far as I'm aware), so if an app developer wants to use web technologies by leveraging a WebView, they are restricted to which codecs and DRM is available.

It's my understanding that this new library offers a solution to such developers. As a reminder, this doesn't apply to the web at large.

From my perspective, this is no different than DRM offerings that are supported natively in all operating systems, including Android, iOS, Mac and Windows.

That's why DRM is bad period. It takes away your power and gives it to a single authority
- The difficulty as I've understood it, is that this isn't sustainable for streaming services: if a bad actor knows how to serve the media request, there are no guarantees if they are actually licenced to watch it. I'm not especially knowledgeable in this field though, so perhaps there are other solutions that would mitigate concerns around the use of DRM.
Yeah, but they were testing the waters with this one. The hydra's going to grow another head eventually. It'll be interesting to see how/if the media integrity API gets leveraged in the Android Chrome browser. They're eventually going to attack this problem from a slightly different angle.
Good summary. I used to think that apps were soooo much better than web apps, but I've come to realize that frequently the web UI is made intentionally janky to nudge users onto the apps where ads can't be blocked.
- Ads can actually be blocked in apps if you use a VPN that has the ability. Though not all apps will function with a VPN enabled
- This is essentially an attempt to further embed Google's existing dominance. What we need is a serious competitor in the Android space, that can involve a webstore, an api, etc that can provide an alternative force catering to both OEM and consumers alike that stands to challenge Google's dominance to the OHA alliance.
As a reminder, this doesn’t apply to the web at large.
Every movement has a start.
Dont care all drm should be outlawed

I am not asking for much. Just break up Google and throw both the big shareholders as well as the executives in jail for the rest of their lifes. If you go as far and decide to take all their money and spend it on social services, healthcare and education for the general public, I wouldn't be mad.

"All I'm asking for, is giving some people life imprisonment for an action that currently is completely legal."
Listen, I'm completely for seizing the means of production and stuff. Google is evil. They can go fuck themselves. However, saying something so incredibly stupid (like you suggested above) voids any credibility that you have.
- You are getting mad at an internet post by a random person who has exactly zero credibility to begin with. I sourced nothing, I claimed nothing, I didn't even pretend that any opinion I hold is of value. As much as I am for calling out shit and as much as I applaud you doing that if for no other reason than out of principle, why? Why don't you use your brain against someone actually doing harm and argue with a shitpost done by a shitposter on a platform that is mostly about shitposting instead?
  All of that pointless stuff aside: Legal ≠ Right I hope you will agree with me on that. We'd like to pretend the rules we make up are just. We'd especially like to believe that if they are democratically legitimated someway or another, they must be morally okay. That is not the case. It never was and never will be. If you base your whole stance on something being legal, then that's a huge issue in and of itself.
  At this point in history money is power is law. If you are rich enough, you have to be the utmost incompetent idiot around to do something blatantly illegal and get in trouble for it. I for one don't think this is the way. So maybe a bit more anarchy from time to time would serve us all well to balance out rich people's crap.
  Also: It's a shitpost. A freaking shitpost. Vote it down and move on. I'd do the same if I didn't think it would be worth engaging with you.

Google isn't proceeding. Maybe now they'll realize YouTube is also suffering from their poor decisions.

YouTube isn't suffering. Lemmy has an active userbase of just over 30K. Given the fact a lot of people have multiple accounts (I do), that's less than 30K active users.
On top of that, probably less than half of Lemmy users actually cry about YouTube.
Even if we are generous, and say the entirety of Lemmy, and each user is unique, 30K is nothing lol.

Unpopular opinion here: I kind of hoped they'd go through with it, as that would completely kill Chrome and Chromium and would lead to a repeat of IE vs Firefox, except Chrome would be the new IE. The fact that they backtracked means that they too saw that people would be massively flocking to Firefox.

I think it's less, "We're worried people will flock to Firefox," and more, "We could get in a lot of legal trouble for trying to force everyone onto Chrome".
Most Chrome users don't even know what a web browser is. They would have remained on Chrome and the web would have suffered for it.
- To be fair, most IE 5 and 6 users didn't know what a web browser was either and here we are.
that would completely kill Chrome and Chromium
It definitely wouldn't. The majority of people would never know the difference. Most people use Chrome and don't use ad blockers.
Careful what you wish for.
I still think it will come out but on the down low
It wouldn't. If Google only owned Chrome, then maybe. But combined with services like AdSense, Google can easily leverage people and site operators to keep using Chrome.
Firefox is losing users year over year. I think it's beyond saving.

thank FUCK

Victory!

One set of standards for the internet systems, and multiple measurements and methods I say, hardly makes sense to split the whole web to pieces over advertising money, especially when access to knowledge, strength, capability to invent and discover of all sorts is now at such an all time high.

We've yet to build anything on the moon or create livable spaces in outer space

Ha, suck on that!

I wish they did, so chrome could loose some market share

Problem is big sites you're forced to use (banking sites, work HR systems, etc) would've made shitty decisions and required it to use their site. It would be like the old "you have to use IE 6" era
- Banking site: We've implemented the Web Integrity API because security is important to us.
  Also the banking site: Your password can only be six characters.
- Various state and federal accessibility laws would've made that a very questionable decision for a lot of industries. Given that it would cost money simply to get programmers to implement and might lead to more costs from legal challenges I suspect a lot of sites like banks and the like would've avoided it.
  Now when it comes to basically any news site, entertainment service, social media, online store, or anything else that makes extra money on ads and harvesting user data? Oh yeah, they'd implement it in a heartbeat.
no, websites would implement and force you to use chrome

I’m sure that’s true,

How can you be sure? Are you in their team and are aware of all the talks?

There's this thing called sarcasm. I'm not surprised you didn't spot it; it's an advanced skill.
- then you haven't understood "this thing" in my comment