Trump said to lift all military restrictions on Israel on 1st day in office according to reports
Trump said to lift all military restrictions on Israel on 1st day in office according to reports
Yeah, both sides amiright?
Well, to all the folks arguing with me on how voting for Harris was bad because of Gaza: CONGRATULATIONS! You REALLY made a point there. The Palestinians had a chance under Harris. Instead of voting for a chance for the Palestinians, you did nothing or voted for genocide. You did it from the other side of the world, where you won't have to suffer the consequences.
It's not genocide if they aren't people.
--Trump, Probably
The entire unhinged right wing has been declaring them UnPersons for decades. I remember in the 90s, possibly earlier, hearing wingers saying "Palestine is not even a country, it was made up by the libs/Muslims, using the term 'Palestinian' is talking nonsense", and so on.
Given the stark difference in how Dems resoonded to the plight of Ukrainians vs. Palestinians, it's clear that this is also the tacit Dem position and what upsets their voters is for it to be explicitly acknowledged.
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
Doubtful: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/15/biden-israel-gaza-palestine
Well, to all the folks arguing with me on how voting for Harris was bad because of Gaza: CONGRATULATIONS! You REALLY made a point there.
Yes, I hope you can take this time to internalize a lesson: you should not support genocide or genociders. The candidate and strategy that you embraced was a gamble tbat you could support genocide and still win the election if you just recycled enough bad faith talking points at the people who consistently oppose genocide.
As you can see, you were wrong. And yet here you are trying to blame others rather than learn this lesson. Do some self-criticism instead. I hope you can forgive yourself for supporting genocide for a cynical loser like Harris.
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
Harris, of the Biden-Harris regime, has had an identical line to Biden's during this 13 months of US-backed genocide. Unconditional material support and some empty rhetoric trying to PR handle their base rather than change policy.
What do you imagine when you say, "had a chance"? Is it the current mass civilian bombing campaigns? Children burned alive? Mass starvation and malnutrition? Those are the things you've gone to bat for, that is the realized vision of the Biden-Harris regime.
you did nothing or voted for genocide
The people voting for genocidal candidates like Harris or Trump voted for genocode. That was something you seem to have done, but not I.
You did it from the other side of the world, where you won't have to suffer the consequences.
You cannot make your support for a genocider into an anti-privilege clapback. Do some self-criticism because this is gross.
Yes, I hope you can take this time to internalize a lesson: you should not support genocide or genociders.
Sorry, what exactly is the lesson to be learned from this election, in which the candidate who more vocally supports the genocide won? As in, showing more support for the genociding party and demonstratively siding in all points with the genociders with not even rhetorical pushback, just pure endorsement of the genocide? Which lesson will analysing this election yield again?
Those are the things you've gone to bat for, that is the realized vision of the Biden-Harris regime.
There's a difference between making the best of a bad situation and going to bat for it. Your choices were someone who there is a chance of reigning in Israel or someone that told them to do whatever they want with weapons we send. The latter is obviously a bad choice unless you agree with Israel.
giving putin a free pass at ukraine will be after lunch, then?
He's not sure, he's still waiting on orders from Putin.
Putin isn't waiting, he apparently started amassing troops within a day of the election.
Can we not use Fox News, please? They legally argued in court they are strictly entertainment and no reasonable person would believe them. In other words, they are literal propaganda.
But yeah, I hope the smug voters that sat this election out are happy...
That's a misrepresentation of what they said. I hate Fox News too, but they argued them being called Fox News doesn't make them exclusively a news company. Most of what they provide on their TV network is entertainment. Written Fox News is actually not the worst thing ever, though still conservative and far from my preference. I also think they still have an hour dedicated to news on the TV network, which is probably worse than having none because it gives cover for the rest of the garbage.
So, do you think that, in this case, the reporting is inaccurate? Or do you just wish they linked a non-Fox version of the same story?
You should default to assuming anything Fox says is untrue without a second source to verify. Because legally they can just say whatever they want and aren't beholden to any type of journalistic standards because they aren't news.
They have no more credibility than a random social media user.
Great going with seeing the point yet completely missing it
Let's be real. The Zionists in charge are Nazis and there was never a path out of genocide in these elections.
It's also part of the evangelical grifter prophecy that the Jews be in control of all of old Isreal before the apocalypse starts.
Trump will dismantle this country and the Christians will cheer it on as society circles the drain because the version of their book that was rewritten in the 70s says so.
It will at least be funny to see them all realize that the "rapture" probably already happened and they're all still here XD
Trump will dismantle this country and the Christians will cheer it on as society circles the drain
These idiots should be disqualified for holding office, since at least some of them, and/or the people they represent, simply don't think this world matters, but only their fictional eschatology.
It's bananas when you actually talk to some of them. Weirdly, though, some of them are still preppers. Wait, I thought you will be one of the blessed chosen ones in the end times? WTF are they stockpiling MREs and thinking they'll be hunting for deer with a bow and arrow or some shit....none of their plans - if you can call them that - make any fucking sense, but they want to rule so that they can drag more advanced people, cultures, and societies down with them into their lunacy and their absolute literal hellscape.
Let's be discerning: there was the potential for a better path out of this, but people decided on the definitely-worst-case-for-everything option on this binary choice, to ensure everyone suffers as much as possible in every situation, most assuredly during the belligerent invasion by Israel.
It was explained over and over; you need more time?
Let's be discerning: there was the potential for a better path out of this
Harris, of the Biden-Harris regime that has been the necessary backer of this genocide for 13 months, did nothing different from Biden rhetorically and was an empty suit candidate that holds the party line. A party whose reoresentatives almost unanimously provide the material support needed for this genocide despite 70-80% of their constituents opposing it.
The "better path" you are referring to is literally unconditional support for genocide. I slmost said you were describing the better path, but you didn't actually describe what it looks like. Presumably, you cannot.
but people decided on the definitely-worst-case-for-everything option on this binary choice, to ensure everyone suffers as much as possible in every situation, most assuredly during the belligerent invasion by Israel.
Who provided you with these choices? Have you considered looking at politics as more than just which monster to press a button for?
It was explained over and over; you need more time?
There was a peeiod, maybe two months, when I could barely get Harris supporters to even say the word genocide. What do you think you are explaining?
Harris just needed to stop the shipments to win the election and she wouldnt do it. She had a billion dollars of pollster and consultant data to tell her this. But its everyone elses fault she lost?
Such a fucking idiotic take... I'm sure Palestinians will take heart in this sentiment when they get gassed out of existence on January 21.
I'm not happy about it either.
The Zionist entity, generally speakinf, does not use gas. They use large scake bombing campaigns and white phosphorus. This has already been happening for 13 months, if you weren't aware.
Everyone in north Gaza will be dead or deported before new years. That will be complete before Trump even takes office. How can you still pretend Biden is somehow better when the outcome is the same?
Boy those pro-Palestine folks that didn't vote for Kamala to protest her stance on the genocide sure did own the Democrats. I'm sure they're super happy about helping get Trump back in office and aren't at all upset about the leopards gnawing off their entire heads.
I am happy that Democratic voters did not learn that they can support genocide and still win elections.
If you tolerated genocide, you are the kind of voter that allows them to get away with these things. This enabled the current genocide - they expected you to fall in line znd it sounds like you did what you were told. It will also enable the rightward swings the party always wants to take in the interests of capital.
It would be better if you focused on becoming politically informed and worked against these forces rather than giving them legitimacy.
They quite literally do not think Palestinians are people. Nothing else could explain their blood soaked entitlement. Nor how unapologetic they are.
But that was before the election.
Now you know they're literally the same as the nazis on the other side by how fucking gleeful they are to watch the bodies stack with an ignorant "I told you so"
They're exactly the people we said they were. Let's see how many learn from us saying so and being right.
I am happy that Democratic voters did not learn that they can support genocide and still win elections.
Unlike every other time we've supported the ongoing Israeli genocide and still won elections.
Good thing the anti-genocide party w-
Oh, what's that?
The message sent is actually "More genocide is a winning position to the electorate"?
Huh. Almost like this was a stupid idea from the start by privileged types who won't suffer the consequences of their actions.
You didnt vote democrat this election you are responsible for never again getting the chance to elect a candidate that will stop Israel or make anything better.
It's gratifying to know you don't mind recognition for being literally too stupid to vote.
Biden put pressure on Israel several times and achieved temporary ceasefires and more humanitarian aid. Rafah would have been stormed months earlier without US intervention.
Haha! So bad was so bad that picking worse was better? Good going there!
Usually abstinence prevents idiots from entering the gene pool; this time it may help get rid of some if Trump gets his way. Great work!
The headline is wrong but still congrats to you morons for enabling Trump. He is clearly a friend of the Palestinians and not Bibi's buddy.
Where my “Democrats are evil genocide people” posters now?
Right here. Republicans being worse doesn't excuse selling weapons for an ongoing genocide. Democrats never should have done that. And it got you nothing. You supported genocide for nothing.
I think a lot of the hostility here is because centrists are mad that trump is going to be able to take credit for the complete implementation of their only policy.
I'm right here. Democrats are still evil for supporting a genocide, and your "lesser of two evils" logic continues to make us more evil.
What do you think of the 30 days the Democrats gave Israel to improve the humanitarian situation by measurable metrics? Israel failed every metric, but the Democratic administration ignores the results and continues to ship weapons to the genocidal regime.
What do you think of the dozens of international doctors who have been to Gaza saying they saw children with single gunshot wounds to the head almost everyday? Reports are widespread that israeli snipers are intentionally killing 100s of children each month.
What do think of Israels recent use of small arms drones? After an American/Israeli bomb destroys a civilian building, a dozen small drones swarm the area. These drones fire small cube-shaped projectiles with the force to pierce skin and break bones, using AI to target any human in the designated area. They are deadly accurate and fast, firing 3 at the head, 3 at the chest, and 3 at the groin. Doctors say these projectiles are especially hard to fish out of the bodies of the child victims as they rarely exit the body, instead they bounce around causing more internal damage.
Suggesting that the people upset about an ongoing genocide are just going to forget about it due to electoral politics is disgusting, and you should feel ashamed.
Hear hear.
People ignore that Biden’s policy was simply indefensible. He fought his own party, he fought his advisors and the media and he STILL lost the election. There’s no longer a need to carry water for him.
It still applies? Just because the Republicans are exponentially worse doesn't mean the democrats weren't supporting genocide too.
the blue maga can’t see anything with their tongue so up dnc cronies.
I mean, assuming everyone on an instance has exactly the same views is kind of asinine. You won't find me pushing that shit. And plenty of others from ml also.
In what way were we wrong? Did we ever claim Trump would be good on Gaza?
Yes. Now fuck off.
There were two ways to vote for Trump. 1) Mark Trump on your ballot and turn it in, or 2) Not vote for Harris, not turn in a ballot at all.
Quit being coy, just take a bow and acknowledge your victory. You stood strong against genocide, and helped elect the only candidate who can't be reasoned with and whose stated political policy was to SPEED UP THE GENOCIDE. Congrats! If you thought their blood wasn't on your hands before, it absolutely is now.
Genocide Joe has been an established term for months.
Why are americans so fuckin dumb? Instead of pointing their fingers at millions of trump voters, they are pointing it at people with empathy for having anti-genocider stance.
It feels like they are just interested in finding a scapegoat to blame rather than asking the real questions, why did so many people voted for trump? Did kamala, despite having more funding, failed to convey her plan? What happened and why it happened and how can it be avoided?
They’re angry and looking for an easy scapegoat. Even though it’s obviously the wrong one. We all knew Trump was worse, which is why Mehdi Hasan and many others were pleading with Biden to please change course because he was destroying his re-election by his own hand. Biden overruled his advisors and the state department and pressed forward on an unpopular policy in hopes he could get republicans to vote for him and it failed. He undermined his own foreign policy and ruined his own career.
Most likely what happened was inflation and a whole lotta price gouging, and people think Biden was to blame. The same people seem to think that donvict has a magic wand.
What funny is, i never heard in news about democrats impose any restriction on israel weapon donation.
You see it is like the media reporting “hamas want a deal” even when hamas october 7 plan was aim at getting a deal to swap prisoner, agreed to Biden deal in July but then the US backtracked their statement.
i went to hamas website and the statement was “Trump should listen to what the American people want”
I believe all these post are by Zionist to create a division in supporting ending the massacres.
Instead of pointing their fingers at millions of trump voters, they are pointing it at people with empathy for having anti-genocider stance.
Trump voters are lost. We (incorrectly) expected those that aren't dumb enough to directly vote for Trump to be smart enough to understand FPTP voting and act appropriately to avoid the worse outcome.
We were wrong.
Why are americans so fuckin dumb? Instead of pointing their fingers at millions of trump voters, they are pointing it at people with empathy for having anti-genocider stance.
It's because of do-gooder derogotation, and generally not caring about winning or learning from mistakes so long as they can save face and protect their egos.
Do-gooder derogation is a phenomenon where a person's morally motivated behavior leads to them being perceived negatively by others.
One possible reason for do-gooder derogation is 'anticipated moral reproach'. This describes a threat to one's moral standing and to their sense of self-worth.
Research suggests that since people are highly sensitive to any criticism or challenge to their morals, they are more likely to put down the source of this 'threat'.
It feels like they are just interested in finding a scapegoat to blame rather than asking the real questions, why did so many people voted for trump? Did kamala, despite having more funding, failed to convey her plan? What happened and why it happened and how can it be avoided?
You answered these questions in your very first line.
Why are americans so fuckin dumb?
Did anyone tell the Palestinians that this would have been the same and to not worry? We had brave, brave people who sat on their hands and did nothing in their name, so I hope they're grateful for their "sacrifice."
The more common correlary was to sit on one's hands and provide consent for genocide or to try to vote shame on support of genocidal candidates.
Though I think you know that those who stand with Palestine tend to be more politically active than your typical Democratic voter. I know I don't see your type in the streets or running education programs or building connections to support Palestinians directly.
Oh my, my type? Goodness, you know, I didn't see your type either now that I think about it! When I went to protests and meetings in my community, I'm afraid I didn't see you there, I only saw people who we trying to actually help people, you know, the ones that knew they were between and rock and a hard place, but actually tried to not hand the government over to a blood thirsty racist, while making sure the community was informed in what steps to take should he win and are now continuing to rally and make their voices heard instead of "not VoTiNg fOr GeNoCiDe" which, you know, kind of got us here.
But perhaps it's scary to stand for a belief off of the internet, but I'm unfamiliar with the feeling because my mom didn't raise a bitch.
Don't worry, we'll handle it, sport. You just stay safe inside, okay? ♥️
They were braver than that, friend! They took to the internet in droves, and in every comment thread they showed everyone how principled they were, commenting "I ReFUsE to VoTE 4 GENOCIDE!!!!!!!", spreading their message to either vote 3rd party or don't vote at all. They worked hard AF to spread their apathy far and wide!
This type of person doesn’t give a fuck about actual Palestinians. It’s just a way to make themselves seem virtuos and ideologically pure.
That they did. I'm sure Netanyahu is grateful.
You could literally ask them yourself. They quite explicitly refused to vote for you and your genocidal racist candidate.
You brave, brave keyboard warrior who would get their ass beat if you said any of this in person
Lmao I would absolutely square up against a fascist. Don't threaten me with a good time. See, I'm an adult. I understand the work doesn't stop at the vote, but I know how important it is to do what I can, even if it's small. And I know that giving the government the equivalent of a cold shoulder allows shit to happen. Evil happens when good people do nothing, and, unlike you I guess, I refuse to do nothing. I'm involved in my local government and plan to keep working. I'd say you should do the same, but I think we both know that ain't happening. But I hope you feel good doing nothing but bad mouthing those braver than you on the internet. Just down vote me and be on your way. 💅🏾
Time for the 2nd stage of FAaFO for all those that fucked around.
No both sides were not equally bad choices for trying to stop the slaughter of non-combatants.
It is possible for two things to be true at the same time. Sure Kamala might have lost for the reasons you suggest. And it can also be true that another group is about to Find Out what Trump is going to do. Just the last few days alone are giving a lot of evidence that the Palestinian people are not going to be better off with Trump in office.
As for it not being strategic, well, that depends if you think the strategy was ONLY to win the election as opposed to trying to do what he thought best in a horrific and complex situation; and ONLY if you think there was an alternative course of action that would have actually won the election.
I'm not sure why folks are only hearing, or responding to, the coulda/woulda/shoulda side of the conversation. A side for which I haven't really disagreed with in spirit, namely yes Biden/Harris surely knew there were electoral consequences to their actions, among other much sadder consequences, but you continue to ignore the actual topic of conversation ... What the future holds.
Okay I can take a guess why [shrug] but such is life. Feel free to have one more reply, I'm done beating a dead leopard.
Non-combatants have been getting slaughtered none stop for over a year now with the help of the Biden/Harris admin.
If they were the better choice they could have demonstrated that, with actions not words.
Bidens 30 day deadline came and went and nothing changed because Biden doesn't care about innocent life and the dem leadership are all in the pocket of aipac https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/11/biden-israel-palestine-gaza-aid-30-day-warnings-blinken-toothless/
Not going to debate what Biden (since as VP Harris has no actual power to do anything) has done or not done nor your opinions of what he's done or not done. I do take issue that you think he doesn't care, at a human level I just don't think that's true. What he's done to express that humanity given geopolitical realities is the real issue.
But anyone who actually thinks Trump cares at all about innocent life, or anyone's life but his own, or cares about the legacy he leaves behind may find themselves rethinking that opinion in the coming year.
Now that the election is over, I truly do hope something good gets done. We of course won't know what Harris could have accomplished, but we'll certainly know if Trump tries and if he succeeds. Keeping fingers crossed.
ETA: I'll just drop this here https://www.reuters.com/world/us/muslims-who-voted-trump-upset-by-his-pro-israel-cabinet-picks-2024-11-15/
What restrictions?, the article doesnt mention any, Bidens ultimatum came and went with no action.
Both sides were for unconditional aid to Israel, kamala may have added some laments about loss of life but she repeatedly said restrictions on military were off the table. Until someone can point to me a concrete policy that kamala had in her platform that was different from trump then yeah both sides are equally bad on this issue. Trump is worse on a lot of others but to a Palestinian they are both bad.
The article has a vague statement trying to make it sound like there were lots of restrictions, but I think it's just the 2000 lb. bombs, and maybe some sort of guidance system (IIRC). Because it's a fucking Fox News article for some reason.
Currently, U.S. restrictions include an embargo on a certain weapons shipment and limitations on various combat-related equipment, even if they do not involve explosive ordnance.
Allowing them is definitely more bad, but it's going from like 95% of maximum complicity to 100%.
The only restrictions are stuff we don't give to anyone. By the end of Trump's term I will not be surprised if Israel has an Ohio class submarine.
what a tool
I know this is a disgusting thought but, assuming there are ever free elections in the United States again, Gaza won't be an issue in 2028. Palestine will just be a memory.
It's already a memory for plenty. All the cool kids are upset over a squirrel killed in New York
They'll just move on to Iran
Perhaps, but Iran has oil and a closer relationship with Russia.
Oh for sure. I wonder how many of the 5.5M they started with are even left.
What restrictions?
What restrictions?
I don't think surph_ninja was implying support in their comment, more just that the Biden Admin's restrictions are sadly near nonexistant to begin with...
You're not a very intelligent person are you?
There are no restrictions to lift, but I guess it makes a good sound bite, even if its utter nonsense.
https://www.reuters.com/world/no-us-conditions-security-assistance-israel-austin-says-2023-10-12/
I think you will find out exactly what he means... I think you already know, but are lying to yourself.
The Biden-Harris regime used this as a rhetorical fig leaf and Trump will not. No policy changes, no material changes on this. It is just different propaganda angles to keep doing the same thing.
Me trying to find the restrictions in question just like me trying to find Biden's red line and also just like me trying to find Blinken's endzone and also me trying to find the consequences of Israel's actions for the past 13 months.
What a joke lol
This comment has some real manic desperation energy. Are you ok?
Posting memes in response to news like this... You're showing everyone your ass, moron.
Take a breath, and maybe do some introspection.
I see that you have made no such comments towards the memers in this thread trying to crap on those who won't vote for genocide.
Wait, the ~14,000 dead children complied with American restrictions? The damaging or destruction of over 80% of all structures in Gaza was within restrictions? Interesting. It's honestly going to be tough for the victims of genocide to tell the difference. It actually may benefit Israel's victims since America is likely to massively lose influence in the world with the clown car pulling into Washington. Many nations who likely want to push back against the genocide are under huge American pressure to stay silent and complicit, hopefully as America loses influence that could change.
Not saying that will occur, just an opinion.
There aren't any restrictions, unless they mean the stuff we don't give to anyone, not even NATO.
All Netanyahu needs is a half dozen F-22s to finally accurately target Hamas!
The Democrats aren't in power anymore, Palestine is saved! /s
It's not genocide. Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race.
--JD Vance, probably.
Those protest votes are certainly being heard loud and clear by every Palestinian right now!
The problem is not military restrictions. Biden did not have any either. The problem is recognition of annexed territories. We see how Israel is clearing out the northern part of Gaza and they are already talking about annexing the West Bank. We are likely to see a lot more violence in the West Bank soon. My guess is parts of Jerusalem and Jericho being in focus.
As opposed to enabling any genocide the Israelis commit and unconvincingly pretending to wag his finger at them, like Biden is still doing.
You have correctly identified the relevant difference: rhetorical approach.
Biden-Harris: feigned concern and "ceasefire" claims while providing unconditional support for the genocide.
Trump: no feigned concern or "ceasefire" claims while (presumably) providing unconditional support for the genocide.
But this difference means nothing materially, of course. If someone punches you with a smile on their face do you thank them for it?
Did you know the Democrats are the first party to have a Palestinian-American woman elected as a member of Congress? Her name is Rashida Tlaib, and Israel has banned her from entering their country, and Marjory Taylor PieceofShit attempted to pass a resolution censuring her for her criticism of Israel.
Hm, I wonder if any of the "anti-genocide" assholes ever stopped to think about Rashida, and whether she would have wanted Democrats to sit out this election or vote Green. I wonder if they understand anything at all.
Tlaib has generally been the sole voice against US support for Israel in Congress and very publicly refused to endorse Harris days before the election.
She got nearly twice the support in her district as Harris did.
Hm, I wonder if any of the “anti-genocide” assholes ever stopped to think about Rashida, and whether she would have wanted Democrats to sit out this election or vote Green.
When you definitely know Tlaib's positions lmao
Incredibly chauvinistic to use her as a talking point and put your own positions into her mouth without listening to anything she says.
She publically refused to endorse Harris days before the election. Are you ignorant or deliberately spreading misinformation?
The problem is recognition of annexed territories.
Don't look too hard at Harris's pick for VP if this is the pretext for "we're not as bad" that you're clinging to
Yeah didn't he call for the creation of "greater israel" in the region or something?
Yes. Now make sure you stand in front of a mirror once a day and say that out loud so you actually start to believe it.
To pretend that Biden did not deliver weapons to Israel used for a genocide, but Trump will make it even worse? I just need to read the news for that. No need for a mirror.
The Biden-Harris regime has provided, unconditionally, the material snd diplomatic support needed for Israel to carry out this genocide. If you support them, you are complicit.
Who should look in the mirror?
Despite what Biden said, there never were any restrictions. Israel gave basically had a free for all since the beginning. White phosphorus was used right at the beginning and no consequences happened. They bombed hospital and nothing happened. They killed aid workers and nothing happened. Unless trump sends American troops in then nothing changes, Israel is going to do what it was always going to do.
American pilot already film themselves there and lets not talk about mercenaries.
Hey OP can you list the restrictions currently in place?
They are mentioned in the article, if we can call it that. But no specifics:
Currently, U.S. restrictions include an embargo on a certain weapons shipment and limitations on various combat-related equipment, even if they do not involve explosive ordnance.
What does this entail, nukes?
The 2000 pound bombs are still flowing. I can't think of a single restriction.
This is because none of it is enforced and it OOS just a fig leaf. They claimed to embargo "offensive" weaponry while keeping a firehose of JDAM shipments to the Zionist entity.
That's just rewording the nonspecific claim. You were asked for a list of the restrictions.
Good work Pro-Palestinian voters who support, especially in Michigan, Mango Mussolini or an independent. We tried to warn you and there is going plenty of US made tungsten zipping through the air in Gaza and southern Lebanon, This also means you can kiss the West Bank good-bye and that is Israeli's primary objective.
Democrats were never holding them back from expanding, they literally expanded the war into Lebanon under Biden. The only check they ever had are the people on the ground fighting.
The outcome wasn’t even decided on Palestine. And the majority of people who are against the genocide understood what was at stake, tried to push Harris left but voted for her in the end.
So you can stop trying to scapegoat anyone who is against genocide as being somehow responsible for this outcome.
If her base had spent more time calling her out for simultaneously calling Trump “hilterian” while also copying Hitler’s policies and chasing after those Republican votes and trying to please her corporate masters rather than fighting for the working class and using left wing economic policies to go after the billionaires and do something substantial about the everyday cost of living, housing, food, healthcare things would have turned out different.
She needed those working class votes - all the people who will never own a home, can’t afford to go to a doctor and don’t give two shits about Palestine one way or the other.
It sure might have given her a bump if she had made any kind of signal that she would make any kind of change on Palestine post-election. Apply American law to stop some shipments of weapons to an active genocide. Instead we got “most lethal military in the world” and Walz saying Israel must expand its borders. You have to understand that people who know Trump is much worse would still vote for her given the circumstances, but that’s not going to cause a surge of a big group of people to get out and vote.
Still it may not have been enough without going to the mat to fight for the working class.
Like really, imagine if it was your family and friends who had been killed in their beds by a year of slaughter by Biden / Harris / Netanyahu. And people are telling you “yeah but you’ve gotta vote for the people who killed your family or the other guys might start killing more people”. I don’t know about you but if all my family and friends had already been killed I might not have the energy to go out and vote for their murderers, or even have the will to live or participate in this fucked up world anymore.
You can’t just shut down any leftist voices and continually run to the right and expect to win. If the voters who have been groomed for years on right-wing content want Hitler they’ve going to choose the real deal not Hitler-lite.
If you throw your hands up and decide you’re now pro-genocide all of a sudden because you’ve scapegoated the victims of genocide, I don’t think you were ever really opposed to it, and you’re likely to accept the next genocide and the one after that.
What do you with the Israeli strings that pull on both parties? The GOP has the US version of the fucking Little Austrian Corporal and the Democrats have an attorney. I'll take the attorney.
Comments deleted by moderator: who the fuck are we moderating for? This isn't reddit where we have to mind our Ps and Qs to make a bunch of advertisers happy. Why the fuck are we still moderating like we're beholden to advertiser-friendliness?
Lots of monochrome in this thread.
If you took pretty much all of the finger-pointing positions to which individuals are stubbornly clinging to the exclusion of any and all other positions and strung them together with "and"s, you'd have the closest approximation yet to the reality.
Uff?
(United Faschists Ftw)?
Including the restriction on bombing Israel?
Given that Biden was too much of a coward to enforce any restrictions, nothing will really change.
Oh yeah? You tell that to those Palestinians displaced permanently from their homes as Netanyahu annexes Gaza and the West Bank.
The Far Left Palestinian protesters did this with their bullshit Genocide Joe nonsense.
💯
Yes in this very specific case of genocide, both sides.
There were and are no restrictions from Biden/Harris. They did not stop any weapons or stop giving any money. Their 30 day deadline for food trucks passed and they did nothing. They've already given basically the maximum they could. The only difference in this specific case of genocide between the two is one won't apologize after doing it. They were both still going to do it
Why do people seem to believe all the pertinent information surrounding this issue is unclassified and available online?
You’d have to believe that to say shit like this.
Democrats: Vote for us, we care about human rights and will manage out genocide more humanely.
Democrats: Haha! You didn't vote for us and now the genocide we started will get worse.
Really shows how much the Democrats care about human rights and genocide. I really regret not voting for them now.
How thick are you?
You're so wrong and I hope you're never on "my side".
Thanks, Uncommitted Assholes.
I loved having people arguing with me and saying "At least my conscience is clear."
How's your conscience now??? Still feeling good about your decision?
They think they get to wipe their hands of it because they "didn't participate", refusing to concede that said choice still counts as their participation. Through ignorance, cruelty, and/or privilege, they'll blame everyone else for the state of the world while refusing to do their part.
There is a certain set of dumbasses that will say this kind of thing no matter what.
Feeling very good about my decision, yes.
Dirtier than Trump supporters
Yes.
Trump is an irredeemably evil genocidal psychopath who deserves eternal torture in the deepest circle of hell. That fact does not make me wish that I had voted for a different irredeemably evil genocidal psychopath who deserves eternal torture in the deepest circle of hell. The fact that Trump is horrible was never in dispute.
I voted Uncommitted in the primary so that Biden and the Democrats would get a count of how many people took the issue seriously. Primaries are a great place for message votes.
I also donated, volunteered, and voted for the Biden and then Harris campaigns, and didn't hold back any support in public. I had no illusions about how bad it would (now will) be with Trump in the Whitehouse.
Wasn't the uncommitted movement some 100,000 people strong?
Didn't Harris lose by millions?
How would have the uncommitteds saved the election if their numbers represented a fraction of what Democrats needed?
Could a more likely explanation of this deplorable outcome be that Democrats did this to themselves by not rallying up their base enough to bring more people out to vote?
Stop blaming the American people.
Almost 100,000 in Michigan alone likely flipped the swing state.
https://theconversation.com/voters-in-arab-american-strongholds-likely-tipped-michigan-in-trumps-favor-242854
They would have been enough to secure the swing states and win Harris the electorial college. Her campaign would have need to promote more progressive policies that addresses the material needs of Americans, instead of running to the right on issues, in order to also pick up the popular vote.
100% It's entirely on the campaign to secure votes. That's the entire job of the campaign. Blaming voters is an easy scapegoat that accomplishes nothing. And when it's blaming marginalized groups, it seems like it's only promoting hate against the people most vulnerable to the violence of fascism
Yes, thank you for teaching the lesson that you should not support genocide.
Now we get to see who has learned from this snd who is going to double down despite losing.
It was the Harris campaign that made the decision to not break from Biden on Israel, at the cost of at least a +6 points gain. Those votes were entirely up for grabs. That's the fault of the campaign's calculations to ignore those voters, take them for granted, and instead run to the right with having the most lethal Military and unwaivering support for Israel a year into this genocide. That single policy change would have secured her the swing states needed to win the election. Biden is a Christian Zionist, the genocide and de juro annexation of Palestine is exactly what he wants.
I voted for Harris and told others to do the same. It's still on the campaign to earn votes to win. If they took this election seriously, they would have been going after those votes. Blaming voters is just sowing division when we need unity and solidarity to fight against Fascism.
The United States Administration is the one enabling Israel unconditionally. Support for this genocide is bipartisan.
Can you also make a graph on how many luxury hotels Trump is going to build in Gaza after the rubble is cleared, thanks 👍
Thank you for voicing this opinion in this thread, and bringing the receipts.
Your take is absolutely idiotic.
the donors of the Democrats/Republicans are doing a good job keeping the citizens divided and pointing fingers at each other
Yeah, no.
After months of alleged "Genocide Joe" bullshit, they don't get to shirk themselves of this.
They were told this was going to happen. They didn't want to listen.
No. That's not a thing.
Don't leave out the Harris campaign with the Cheneys and the DNC