Why is there no sense of "camaderie" in the workplace?
Why is there no sense of "camaderie" in the workplace?
So when I worked in last 2 roles, I'd joke around and have a laugh with colleagues, the workplace culture of those places I guess was more relaxed, but I got that sense of lack of camaderie or fellowmanship from others too during my time working.
Sorry to be naive, but is it because some people look out for themselves and it's kind of "Yeah you're a funny guy but uh.. when shit hits the fan I ain't there with you" kind of shtick.
Not saying these guys are assholes or anything, but I just think with the current world in any work industry it seems to be tricky to make real friendships inside and outside of work.
I don't know if this just me but I notice that big distinction of the joking around and sharing the same invested topics (I.e. video games) but no more than that
TLDR - Confused if people are being genuine, but they don't really "care" in a sense?
Please let me know if I'm spouting gobbledygook, thank you.
What you're saying is a bit gobbledygook. I don't want to make friends at work. I want to do my job and then clock out when finished.
Yeah but not all people need or want that. I agree with op. Camaraderie makes the job easier.
Its a cultural thing that definitely exists where I live
Not only that but it makes it easier to care about one another, which gives a greater incentive to unionize.
I totally agree with you that I don’t need to make friends at work. I 100% clock out at the end of the day and make a hard cutoff between personal and work life. I can even work with people I personally dislike just fine, as long as they’re not making things harder for others.
But OP was talking about camaraderie, which is mostly just about being generally pleasant to be around - as Merriam-Webster defines it, “a spirit of friendly good-fellowship”. Nobody likes to deal with the moody guy who doesn’t want to talk to anyone either, including the other moody guys. There’s definitely a minimum level of camaraderie required not to make things harder for everyone involved. You don’t have to lean into the “we’re a family” BS not to be unpleasant.
Different companies have different broad cultures, and different subcultures within teams. Some companies just don't have a sense of camaraderie built into their broad culture.
One thing that people don't always understand, and I always point this out to people I work with, is that your professional relationships are much more important than the company itself. Everybody is going to move on from their current job some day. When that day comes, they will benefit from having strong relationships with past team mates, either by knowing folks who can help them get new work, or by knowing folks who they can bring in to tackle projects at the new job.
Your professional network is one of your most valuable assets in your career. The people you work with are real people, with real families. Relationships with great team mates are more important than the company you both work at now, and will outlast your time at that company. Camaraderie is key to that whole scenario. Make sure you reach out to people you respect and enjoy working with and tell them how much you value that professional relationship. You will both be better off for it.
I always say: if I'm ever in a situation where I need a job and can only get one with a former employer - do I want them to say "hell yeah" or "hell no"?
I've worked with people who, if they had to ask me for a reference, I would decline to give one. By the same token, I would reject their application for a job in my company or team. And I have worked with the opposite - people who will always under any circumstances get help from me if they're looking for a job. All the competence in the world doesn't help if someone is miserable to be around.
Having contacts, people who are willing to give references and similar always helps. Sure, you can do job hunting hard mode, but why make things unnecessarily difficult?
After a few decades of working my default is to avoid making close connections with coworkers outside of work because of the trouble it can cause at work. I don't want to be at work in the first place, why make more trouble when I can instead just be professional and get along with everyone in the context of the work itself?
For me, I just don't have any interest in making friends at work. If we happen to get along, then great! Gimme your number and I'll text you memes about this week's House of the Dragon after work. Daemon needs to get the hell outta Luigi's Mansion, am I right hahaha
But outside of those one-off friendships, I just don't have the emotional energy anymore to maintain any meaningful connections with somebody just because we happened to apply to the same LinkedIn listing. Life is too stressful to be thinking about even more people and their problems.
Maybe it's just because of my line of work, but nobody does this job because we want to, we do it because we're competent at it. We're not here because of some shared vision or dream, but because the hiring manager accepted "some college" on the applications. We're only sharing this space as a matter of consequence, not intention. That's not enough for me to form a bond on in a lot of cases.
Maybe if I worked in a field that I was passionate about, things might be different and I might be more open to connecting with people. But otherwise I'm just here to do what I need to pay my bills, and that's it.
And yeah, it can be lonely. That part can suck.
Being friends is off the table, but solidarity among workers is important.
Word of advice--be a good person to your colleagues, and let friendship possibly develop after one of you leaves. I've made many friends throughout the years once we each know there is no pressure to be friends. I've had many job leads throughout the years because people I previously worked with thought I was a great colleague.
You find good friends whenever you happen to be in the same place. Your personalities are compatible, and you like to hang out together. You had to go to some place that is a shared interest, after all, to meet that person in the first place. Like a local bar, or a bowling league, or whatever.
Your workplace can be a source of good friends, but people aren't there based on shared interests, they are there because someone pays them all to be there. So the chances that you find someone compatible enough to want to spend time outside of work is slim, because you are not there out of any particular shared interest other than your career.
The real problem is that the amount of "third places" (like bars and bowling alleys) are decreasing. People spend so much on their housing that they can't afford to go somewhere else to socialize, and are much more likely to just stay home and interact with their collected virtual friends online.
And also the fact that so much of our work is remote now. I am fully remote and my "team" is spread out worldwide. My work "socializing" is limited to asking people in Southeast Asia about the weather 5 minutes before the 10 pm (my time) meeting starts.
I work in a restaurant and most of us are friends at this point. We drink together, smoke weed together, and generally enjoy each other's company
I miss the restaurant. FoH was always a slow cat-fight with lots of low-key drama. You make a few friends, turn some tables, grab a beer and go home. It's uncomplicated work (simple doesn't always mean easy), or was in my time.
At the IT jobs you have the passionate and the jobbers. I enjoy debating stupid tech things with people but I get that at the end of the day they all go home to their families and real friends after. Our big deal is that even when we're fighting or Dave's being a right prick today, we can cooperate and work together like professional adults; and then some of us will hotly debate when and why ipv6 will never happen or something lile that.
But that may be an IT thing. They throw you together for a few years until they cut away half your team, and you have to decide how close you are as friends. The job I quit last year, some of us are on great terms, and we're meeting tonight. I'm still on a Skype chat - sometimes a call, usually a rolling chat - with some peers from 2003.
There's no rule that requires you to be friends with your workmates. Sometimes you are, but don't force it. If you can work professionally with the dinks and make 1-2 actual friends, that's maybe okay. Ultimately you need to survive work to live, and a good social connection is a bonus that isn't always gonna happen.
Restaurant friendships are smth else 👌👌
Trust me, as someone who has that right now I dearly wish I didn't. It's false & unhelpful. Especially when there needs to be a painful change but people refuse.
You’re only there due to the coercion of capitalism. And employees are direct competitors with each other.
Lots of conjecture incoming:
I've asked myself this same question, and coming from a military background rather than anything more typical, I think it coalesces as something altogether different depending on the situation.
When I was stuck on a ship with hundreds of others, underway two or three weeks out of every month, 6 to 8 month deployments sprinkled in just for fun... Hard not to come out of a situation like that with some lifelong friendships.
On the other hand, in the years when I wasn't on a ship, almost regardless of the work, even if we were friendly during the day, when the time came to go home it was like cockroaches when the lights come on.
I've come to the conclusion all these years later that it was some combination of shared hardship, forced closeness, security in employment, and a core belief that we were all working toward the same goal. We were in it together, and it felt like it.
Social relationships come from everywhere, even work, and while there are many people who worry that friendships at work will distract from... I don't know... There are still plenty of people out there who want to make the day go by a little faster by working with a friend.
Maybe it just comes down to people not being committed to their work, because why would you be? Sticking your neck out, working extra, helping others, etc. are punished in a lot of different little ways, to the point that the best alternative is just to hop between jobs, staying one step ahead of accidentally giving a fuck.
DoD work (both civilian and active duty) tends to bind people together a lot more than other industries, in no small part due to the factors you mentioned, but also because a) the additional barriers of national security/clearance work make it only really possible to vent about work to coworkers/friends from work, b) the work can often be unique enough that only coworkers have shared experiences to bond over and empathize with, and c) the civilian side of the DoD tends to attract career folks a lot more than it does transitory people. I think a disproportionate amount (when compared to private industry) of civilians who hire into the DoD stay in federal service for their whole careers. And people sticking around their whole careers tend to invest more in personal and professional relationships in the workplace, because networking is how you get opportunities, and you never know who you might owe a favor some day (or who might owe you one).
Spot on. This lack of secure employment (and yes, also probably lack of sense of purpose) also undermines the social relationships necessary to collectively bargain (with a union or not) for better working conditions. When workers don’t feel they have each other’s back, they are less likely to pressure an employer for better pay and conditions.
This is a pretty insightful comment.
I’ve come to the conclusion all these years later that it was some combination of shared hardship, forced closeness, security in employment, and a core belief that we were all working toward the same goal. We were in it together, and it felt like it.
This seems to explain why people who work in restaurants can often be close. There's the shared hardship of dealing with a dinner rush, there's a lot of forced closeness in the kitchen, and everybody's working towards the same goal, whether that's just getting through the shift, or trying to produce a really amazing dining experience.
There's probably another one: depending on other people who work right next to you. If you're working alongside other people but everybody's working on their own project it's going to be different than if you depend directly on the person next to you for whatever you're doing.
Maybe it just comes down to people not being committed to their work
I think it's the lack of all the things you mentioned. At an office job the hardship is pretty mild other than occasional "crunch time". There's some forced closeness, especially when people are crammed into an open-style office. But, I don't think that's the same kind of closeness you get in kitchen, or on a ship, or in a factory. You may be working towards the same goal, but it's often a nebulous and distant goal. And, often, the goal isn't something that feels particularly meaningful. You're helping ship a product that may or may not be vaguely useful to some customers you'll probably never meet.
But, I think the big thing is the lack of security. In the military you literally can't leave, and unless you do something insane you're not going to get fired. At most jobs, it's extremely easy to leave, and many people feel like they're always on the edge of being fired or laid off.
So I went through fire academy in a high school career school. We had a small class of 12 and months of mutual challenges. Learning how to get gear on, buddy checks, doing search and rescue searches crawling around blindfolded. Then doing live fire training in an old abanodoned house the academy bought for us. It was the closest "Band of Brothers" feeling I've ever had with a group.
In the military it's similar but not as intense imo. Same people, prolonged group interaction, same goal. We do the same thing as everyone else. Clock in and clock out trying to get shit done asap to maximize free time, but we still have spent deployments and tdys together. We give a shit about the big picture when it counts (large operations, helping Ukraine etc) but on the daily we mostly just try to help each other get through the day but it's not totally friends centered. Bottom line is still that we're all here to do a job
There is no incentive to doing note than bare min at work and helping people is more hassle than it is worth.
With that said, you ain't got to be toxic but most work is just that straight up toxic lol
In my experience, this varies a lot between work places and departments/teams. I've experienced what you describe, and it correlates with shorter em0loyment durations and loads of people "moving through". People don't want to bother with forming bonds when they don't know if the person will be there in a week.
And then there's the complete opposite: A few coworkers and I have changed employers a few times, but in the same industry, and we've always been part of the team "field crew". While we generally don't care about the rest of the company and its office personnel, we always had fun when meeting somewhere around the world. While the amount of beer filed on the expenses as "department meeting" is enough to drown a flock of horses, we often do other things together, like museums, shopping, and sight seeing. Hell, we were supposed to go parachuting together once, but timing and weather intervened. The nature of this job makes it hard to maintain "normal" friendships, so we kind of have to rely on each other for that social interaction fix.
Yeah. It also depends on the corporate culture of the group and a lot of that comes from management.
I've also seen cases where people need to fit somewhat in the office culture.
The company I work for has a decent professional culture that emphasizes teamwork without any weird gimmicks. But I don't get paid to make friends with these people. If anything, the people that think they're there to socialize usually put the work second and make things harder for the rest of the team.
There's nothing wrong with sharing jokes and having fun at work. As long as you understand that there's also value in keeping your personal life seperate.
This is highly dependent on which company/agency you work, and even which dept or team you're on within a company. I've made a ton of very good friends through the years at my jobs, but I'm also not friends with everyone who I worked with, and I recognize there's a difference between joking around as friends outside of work and being amiable and professional at work
They're just there for a paycheck, relax. Just do the job and head home.
Cause your workplace sucks?
Did you mean Camaraderie?
Yeah sorry lol, Guess the autocorrect didn't fix it there for me!
I think it depends on the industry and circle of friends you can find in that work place. Someone I know works in an oil chang place and they tell off color jokes and what not. I work in corporate and almost nobody does that. I also avoid creating that kind of relationship at work because I've been burned on drama from those types of connections. But I still manage to have a couple of people I trust and we'll joke around and curse.
My work team is very close. It's the reason we all stay. We range from 1 to 34 years and people only leave if they're retiring or moving for a spouse job. Our office is shelter from the shit going on in the rest of the district. That said, it's beginning to penetrate and, after 16 years, i may be the first one to just walk.
You all should have a better reason to stay
We love our work. Having a vey close, supportive team makes us able to tolerate the shit that rains down from above sometimes.
For me it's much easier to work with people I don't like if we're not trying to be friends. It doesn't matter if I like them or not. Doesn't matter if I think they are a piece of shit or awesome. We each have skills required to get the job done, and we use them together to do it.
Butts in seats is the most important metric for our middle management. In my gig if we don't have a full team, job can't get done. Middle management is incentivised to have butts in seats. So good luck having any say in who is filling those roles.
Combine that with an industry full of toxic work environment. Yeah, I apply my skill set and go home. It keeps the lights on
Doesn’t matter if I think they are a piece of shit or awesome. We each have skills required to get the job done, and we use them together to do it.
I am of the same opinion, but sadly a ton of people have to like you before they will just do their damn job. Bunch of petty assholes.
sadly a ton of people have to like you before they will just do their damn job.
Sounds like management issue imho.
Also, I wonder how that turn over is looking if the job requires this lol
Yeah it's pretty gobbledygook. Don't think you explained yourself that well.
Many people just want to do their job and go home. They don't want to make friends. Or they have no motivation to do anything beyond what they are paid for to help the company or colleagues.
Which is totally fair enough to me. If I didn't need to work to live I 100% wouldn't. Even though I quite enjoy my job and like the people I work with.
From the comments I gather that this mostly depends on the kind of work. I’d assume anywhere that is a “career” type place vs “just a job” will have different kinds of attitudes. At a “just a job” you want to just gfto when you clock out. I’ve mostly had jobs in relation to education or creative, and most of the people there just want to connect.
I’ve always had friends and good times with coworkers, many of whom I’m still in contact with to this day, hell, I’ve helped some of them move.
I have a 'just a job' and to give you a different perspective: we are bored as fuck and many people survive by socialising. People make friends and start relationships there all the time. There's a social club and other groups of friends that regularly see each other outside of work. It's also shift work with regular overtime and weekend work so people can't always easily socialise outside of their job.
This has always been my experience as well. My first job was “just a job”. But I worked there for 6 yrs and made many friendships during that time. There were many “time to clock out people”, but at least half regularly hung out.
As a non american working for americans in a american company, yes you guys have a very formal/not friendly culture, but i guess it also depends on the company. This is the first time in my professional life I feel like I have to pay atention to every single word I say.
It really depends where you work. I've seen places where nobody says anything because they can't trust each other, and others where we say whatever we want because we all understand each other.
The more corporate the place is, the more restrictions you'll have on interactions to "protect the brand".
The place I work everyone is really nice and helpfull, I really love working here, but everyone is very "professional" and formal all the time. There is no chating in the cooler or talking about the Olympics. Is business only 100% of the time which can be mentally tiring
People I know from work are work aquantices. Some I have been rather fond of but at the end of the day friends are people I hang with when im not working. I personally have not had work friends. Its like friends vs schoolmates. I have had friends that were also schoolmates but plenty of schoolmates that were not. Again not that I did not like them or that I did not share a laugh with them here and there but it comes down to hanging outside of the required to be at thing.
It really depends on the people and the environment. I've worked places where the whole crew would go out after work quite frequently, and we had a great time, other places, I barely learned people's names.
I like chatting with coworkers and building a "more than just a coworker" relationship, but I don't need it, so I don't push for it. More of a door's open if you want, kind of thing for me.
Depends on the type of "workplace" really, but generally, the answer is because work is an unstable capitalist mess and you have no confidence as a worker that you'll have a job tomorrow, regardless of performance.
You see, your list frames a "failing" of workers to connect, while you're ignoring the larger system in play. Kind of you walking around Nazi Germany saying, "hey, why is everyone such a frowny bummer? Marching is fun. Okay, so which three snacks would you all take to a desert island?"
Read the room, bud.
I don't really consider someone a friend until we've shared a meal. Some places lend themselves more to that than others.
I never plan to stay very long at most jobs I've had. I'm just doing them because I need money. Something better comes along, I leave. So I don't really feel like making relationships with people I don't think I'll work with very long.
In my experience Boomers, Gen X and older Millennials generally want to socialize at work. They grew up in a office environment where you were constantly around your coworkers and social media was in its infancy.
Younger Millennials and GenZ mostly want to make a paycheck and go home. They generally don't want to socialize with people outside of their circle. I sometimes think genZ is way happier at home 24/7 and don’t want human interaction. Could also be they just don’t have the money for it.
Anomie
Because people know bosses pit employees against each other.
Poor leadership. A good leader can set the tone for better or worse. Unfortunately leadership is very rarely taught, so bosses tend fall back on their upbringing. A leader is at the front working harder than everyone else and suffering with their team, a boss is at the back telling everyone to work harder while suffering nothing. A boss who is also a leader is far to rare.