Warren Bill Would Overturn Supreme Court Decision Gutting Federal Agency Power.
Warren Bill Would Overturn Supreme Court Decision Gutting Federal Agency Power | Common Dreams
Can you imagine a full majority blue government again? Last time we got health care light, who knows what we might get a little of this time?
Maybe some of that freedom your nutjobs keep banging on about.
Make no mistake that small progress is still progress and given the amount of money spent on regression, don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
If given the choice of something better, never go for the other option because the first is not better enough
don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
This sentiment is way too rare. Personally I'm a fan of using "don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough"
the nutjobs will never get the freedom they want. they want freedom to step on others and freedom from accountability.
they do not have the same desires as you and i.
Yeah but this bill won't become law
Make no mistake that small progress is still progress
That's an argument I remember from under Obama. But the theory was that these small progressions would compound over time. In practice, the Dems don't make progress, they inhibit it. Liberals draw in an enormous amount of labor and financial power to campaign, then immediately sell out to corporate interests. They pass stop-gap bills to splinter progressive movements into factions of haves and have-nots. Then they collapse in the face of a reactionary resurgence.
The reactionaries impose huge reversals of existing New Deal and Great Society programs. They engage in flagrant criminality without any form of censure. They prosecute wars to loot natural resources abroad. Then they ship domestic capital overseas to dilute labor power at home and swell the ranks of the underemployed. They lard us up with debts to the same plutocrats who put them in office and leave Democrats with the bill when they finally slink out of office. And they balloon the national security state to surveil, suppress, and murder protesters and dissidents in nascent left-wing movements.
The "small progress" is a ratchet. It isn't progress at all. We're regressing rapidly. The liberal party seems content to prevent any kind of contrary political pressure, while the conservative movement goes all-in on paramilitary fascism.
It’s a bit disingenuous to say we had a full blue government. Technically we had it but our majority in the senate didn’t really exist due to false Dems like Manchin
Plus the filibuster requires 2/3, not a simple majority to get anything done.
Manchin wasn't even in the Senate yet. Lieberman was an independent that endorsed Romney 3 years later.
There were senators from Louisiana and Missouri in that majority.
Also Franken wasn't seated until like June because of recounts and lawsuits. Ted Kennedy was on deaths door and passed away 2 months later. His replacement was seated a couple months after that and then Scott Brown won in fucking Massachusetts in January.
They ended up with something like 109 working days in which Democrats could override a Republican filibuster. They passed 2 major pieces of legislation. Dodd Frank and the ACA.
I miss the days when the arguments were whether we should have universal healthcare or whether we should force insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions. Arguments over whether we should have a democracy or not just aren't the same...
I believe Harris was against universal Healthcare for all :-(
Harris healthcare plan in 2020 was to the left of Bidens, She called for Medicare for all. She dissagreed with Bernie about banning private insurance.
She was not against universal healthcare. I doubt she is now. If Dems sweep the house and somehow picked up 10 seats in the Senate (impossible) she might try to go for it.
It's not impossible in 2026 for Dems to make big gains in the Senate, but it is very, very unlikely.
Can you imagine a full majority blue government again?
Easily. But when so many of the elected officials on Team Blue are as subservient to private business interests, plutocrats, and foreign state governments as their counterparts on Team Red, I'm not sure what good it'll do.
100 Joe Manchins and Kristen Sinemas won't do us any favors.
BoTh sIdEzZz
Bullshit and no one is buying it anymore.
Then why are you here?
If you don't believe in electoral politics that's fine. But you should be off organizing union drives, or mutual aid societies, or literally any other venue for democratic power.
Why would you care which corporate shill holds office?
Your presence here suggests that it does, in fact, matter who wins elections, or which team holds power.
Great, now do Citizens United, Trump v US, Roe and maybe try Dred Scott again but where corporations don’t have all the same rights as people and can’t be criminally prosecuted.
And reverse southern pacific vs santa clara and end corporate personhood
One step at a time bud.
If you try and do everything at once you get nothing done at all.
Unless you do everything at once with conflicting interests across different parts of "everything" and you get an omnibus bill, which is the only way to actually get anything done in congress nowadays (for some god-forsaken reason)
Or if we don't try to do everything at once or we do nothing, same exact outcome, nothing at all.
Nobody's going to see any traction on any of this until something horrible and messy happens. We're going to wait until most people won't stand it anymore
Let's fucking go!
The courts kind of already denying the authority of the legislature on this. These agencies were created and given authority by congress already.
Yeah, they've gotten to the point of saying the legislature cannot delegate it's authority. If it stands it functionally makes modern government impossible. If Congress cannot delegate to the executive, and it cannot take on executive style decision like the Westminster system, the government just cannot function.
They overturned the courts previous decision. Technically it wasn't a law before, it just was heavily implied (as in Congress specifically left things vague bc they wanted federal agencies to fill in the blanks in accordance to the Chevron doctrine).
Basically, there wasn't any part that was unconstitutional, they just said the court was overstepping their boundaries when they "created" the Chevron doctrine.
Edit: please read the comment below, it seems like my understanding wasn't quite right
The court basically said it was a separation of powers issue. The basic powers of the branches are:
The Chevron Deference doctrine was the courts saying "Congress occasionally writes laws vaguely and we don't have expertise on every subject matter, so we are going to defer the decision-making of what exactly the law means to actual experts in the Executive branch." Congress has written laws using this logic, intentionally granting power to the Executive branch that would otherwise reside with Congress (i.e. Congress says "how much of X particulate in the air is too much? We could write a specific law stating that 500 ppm is too much, but it's a lot of work to do that for every particulate, and the science gets updated over time, so we'll just tell the Executive to place 'reasonable limits' and call it a day.")
Now the Court has said "That power you've ceded to the Executive branch? That should be ours because it's our job to interpret what laws mean. We now decide how much of X particulate is too much, even when we mix it up with Y particulate."
It's a blatant power grab by the Court and a separation of powers issue. Congress SHOULD be able to remedy it by specifying that this decision-making power should reside with the Executive branch and the Judiciary won't be able to say "no mine". I mean, this Court WILL, but a legitimate Court wouldn't.
Out of curiosity, what would stop SCOTUS being like "Nah, this law goes against the constitution"?
It's my understanding that SCOTUS has the power to repeal laws. Wouldn't the only real way to codify would to put it in the constitution?
Until SCOTUS declares amendments to the constitution to be unconstitutional.
SCOTUS "Mumble, mumble...found fathers...mumble, mumble, clearly unconstitutional...mumble, mumble, amendment not ratified correctly."
Here's my understanding as a layman, please correct me if I'm wrong.
SCOTUS could block the creation of a law if it was deemed unconstitutional, but even with a conservative SCOTUS, it's unlikely they would in this case. As in many cases, SCOTUS didn't overturn a law here, but rather changed their decision on the interpretation of the law, specifically the Administrative Procedure Act. If congress passes a law that explicitly delegates certain powers to agencies, or codifies regulations that had previously been defined by an agency, that would be harder to fight since the APA, as far as I can tell, does not prohibit it. Warren's bill is basically saying "if we can't implicitly delegate power to agencies to create regulations, we should at least be forced to quickly review suggested regulations to prevent them from getting stuck in congress."
Again, this is just my understanding as a layman. IANAL
There was the Voting Rights Act case, Shelby County v. Holder. A case in which SCOTUS struck a provision in the Voting Rights Act as they declared it was unconstitutional. If you can declare a provision unconstitutional, what would stop SCOTUS from declaring an entire law unconstitutional?
We've already seen a SCOTUS decide it can do anything it wants.
They didn’t rule it unconstitutional, they ruled it incompatible with the 1946 Administrative Procedure Act. So the law could change it.
Granted, they could later try to rule it unconstitutional, but it would kill Looper Bright.
With Marbury v Madison, the court gave itself the authority to interpret the constitution and the laws that congress enacts and the president enforces. These are statutory laws.
The other kind of law is court precedent. It is the law that the court creates based in the cases that come before it. It is inextricably linked to statutory law. Of course the highest court can overturn the law of lower courts or its own decisions.
Yes, the court can strike down laws.
The only way to get around the court is to amend the constitution itself. When amending, the language should be plain and clear so that SCOTUS cannot misinterpret it. Though there are several amendments that have been interpreted various ways over time.
Amending the constitution is a difficult process because it requires a lot of agreement between the members of congress/ senators and the states. See article V of the constitution.
The only way to get around the court is to amend the constitution itself.
That's not actually the case. The Constitution says this about the court system.
Article III - Section 2.
The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.
In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.
Emphasis mine. The inferior courts have jurisdiction over all matters other than "cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party." For those, SCOTUS has original jurisdiction. SCOTUS handles appeals to the judgements of the inferior courts "with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make."
We do not need to amend the constitution to rein in SCOTUS. Congress, under the this article of the constitution, Congress has the authority to create legislation that limits the power of the supreme court on all matters other than "cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party." Congress can increase the size of the court allowing the current president to add judges. They can add term limits and other limits to SCOTUS. The problem is that one party doesn't want to fix the problem and that party is running the House and obstructing the Senate thanks to the filibuster rule. If we had a functioning Congress, we could pass regulations forcing the justices to abide by ethics rules. We could make it illegal for justices to accept gifts from billionaires.
Sadly, this will not happen without a Democratic controlled House and a Senate with at lease 60 actual Democratic Senators, and a Democrat in the White House. Still far more likely than a Constitutional Amendment, though.
There's another built in way for Congress and the President to get around SCOTUS. Just ignore the ruling. The most permanent way is an amendment but ignoring it and enforcing the law anyways does work. For example Banks will freeze accounts if the regulator tells them they have to. They aren't going to make a principled stand for you.
The supreme court could just rule democracy unconstitutional while they're at it. Clarence Thomas won the presidency despite not being in the ballot, Trump and Harris both lose. Chaos then ensues.
... Are we suddenly going to start fighting the supreme Court? Finally? Finally?
Approved.
At this point in time it isn't enough. Republicans and the conservative justices will find whatever loopholes there are. They need to be advocating to change the role of the Supreme Court to an advisory agency only, where they have no decision-making powers.
The SCOTUS is necessary in a functioning system of checks and balances on power amongst the three branches of the federal government. The problem we have now is a court stacked with looney judges subverting the will of the people. We need a more effective means of maintaining balance in the court.
Failed civics?
I’m not sure they need loopholes. They’re perfectly fine with tossing out precedent and rehashing settled law. Next step is to just make shit up.
For anyone curious, this bill is fighting against the conservative SCOTUS decision that basically said fossil fuel and other companies don't have to listen to the EPA or follow environmental regulations if the company has a "reasonable"(undefined) argument against said regulation.
So this law should get made. Get made good.
Regulations are "unconstitutional"? Hmmmmmmm 🤔 Is SCOTUS bound by anything? Seems like they can rule however they like.
I think their argument is more that the agencies aren't allowed to be the ones to say how a law is applied as far as regulations go. If a regulation is vague enough the EPA isn't allowed to clarify anymore, it needs to go to a (more than likely rubber stamp) court where the judges decide, instead of, you know, anyone who would actually have expertise... It's legally "reasonable" but practically insane.
SCOTUS is unchecked by the rest of the federal government. The only thing that would limit their power is a constitutional amendment, which requires 38 states to individually ratify it at the level of their state governments, not their federal congresspeople.
There is literally no way for congress to affect the supreme court once it has 9 justices, or contradict its rulings on laws they call "unconstitutional", short of impeaching supreme court justices or packing the court with more than 9 justices. Once enough of the court is full of fascists or enablers, it's EXTREMELY hard to escape fascism without a constitutional convention.
In theory that was supposed to be the strength of SCOTUS, that being secure in their employment for life (or until retirement), they had no incentive to judge along party lines for fear of future prospects. However, we've seen that judges can still be both very partisan and entirely unqualified and we can now do nothing to remove them. Turns out bribery and threats still work on them
flipping open my Lockean theory of self-governance
Strictly speaking, the power of government is in its ability to achieve (relatively) peaceful compliance. The SCOTUS decision creates an opportunity for individuals to behave in defiance of the written law with a certain fearlessness. A President can go full Andrew Jackson and tell the judges to enforce that decision, but he's still got to command a bureaucracy full of people who can be swayed in the other direction.
What happens to a regulation that nobody is willing to enforce? What happens to a federal regulation that runs afoul of state law, in a district where municipal/state law enforcement will enthusiastically arrest and local DAs prosecute a federal agent?
I would say that's the real power of the SCOTUS. Opening the legal door for disobedience and negligence at the federal level, while state-level revolt occurs downstream.
The Loper Bright ruling was that when taken on appeal that the courts no longer have to accept a reasonable agency interpretation over a reasonable (or more reasonable) interpretation by the other party.
And the rulings isn't just for the EPA but all other federal agencies like the IRS, ICE, and the FDA. This bill is a double edged sword depending on who has the executive seat.
There's at least a possibility of the executive having enough expertise to regulate reasonably. The courts don't have the resources, but they've grabbed that power to themselves.
Not at all. It gives substantial power to the lower courts and strips it from the executive's cabinet secretaries.
For real. The regulations are the "reasonable" standards. If you can't meet the bare minimum you can fuck off.
Basically agencies were given power unchecked without passing any laws giving them that power. Supreme court decision was correct. Congress needs to get off their butts and get laws passed if they want them so bad, and stop relying on shaky historical precedents.
Kind of hard to pass bills when one political party is dedicated to nothing but corruption and obstruction but ok.
I honestly agree with the decision in a vacuum, but in reality I can't help but feel the decision was made very much with corporate interests in mind. Yeah congress should've gotten their ducks in a row long before now, but the real winner here is corporations, not constituents.