If Clinton, Trump, and Did Not Vote were presidential candidates in 2016

If all of the people who didn't vote because "It would never make a difference" actually voted, we could have had a constitutional amendment by now removing the electoral college.

Seriously
I love how the takeaway from this is “yeah fuck politics amirite” and not “dude it is THERE FOR THE TAKING for anyone who is inspiring enough to actually get people voting for them”
(and who feels like overcoming the significant hurdles of the media and the DNC cooperating to do their best to tank their campaign which they will definitely do if you are inspiring enough for people to want to vote for you)
THERE FOR THE TAKING I tell you
- Wait, what was that quiet bit in the middle? /s
- Nah. There's always going to be those, "They'll never win", "they're not a practical choice", "Voting third party is a waste" types.
  Democrats and Republicans can only agree on one thing. They don't want more competition. I think that's why voter apathy is so bad
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."
Has someone run on that platform before? Can't vote to change the system if no one is running (allowed to run) who plans to change the system.
Just having the vote on a non working day or giving (almost) everyone obligatory paid leave that day is way easier and could already have quite an impact.
well, no, not unless a politician introduced something like that

For anyone like myself that was interested in 2020:

Found it here (Although the data source is shown on the chart)

I think trump woke a lot of people up. clearly there's still ground to cover but it looks like clear progress in voter turnout
- Everyone was also at home/working from home/on flex schedules due to covid in 2020. People had time to vote, they had time to research things and take part in political discourse. Everyone always forgets that little historical tidbit.
  2024 may hit record low voter turnout as the nazi's ratchet up anti voter laws, removing polling places, and companies keep putting the economic screws on their workers with stagnant pay and forced return-to-office so citizens don't have time to think about the political process.
- 2020 was the highest US voter turnout in over 100 years (percentage wise), and it was still atrocious. Also worth noting, trump got the second most votes of any presidential nominee in US history, thankfully beat by Biden, but it's not like all of the new voters were purely against trump.
I think the most interesting thing about these two maps, is that Georgia kind of proves the people wrong who don't vote "because it wouldn't make a difference in my state".
Thanks for posting the link separately 🙏
Oh good, Iowa sliding back into apathy where it belongs…

...okay, you've convinced me. As someone from a beige state that's been presidentially blue for over 30 years (meaning my vote means dick-all due to EC shenanigans), I will continue to show up and vote to make sure it stays that way.

Maybe one day I'll even get an inspiring candidate to vote for.

I'm assuming you're showing up for more than presidential elections, though, right? Where your vote counts even more?
If you think presidential participation is low, you should see state and local numbers. Or don't, if you're prone to depression.
- Yes. Unfortunately I live in a nepo congressional district where the mob boss's — I'm sorry, party power broker's — little brother has a seat for life and runs unopposed every primary. And said "power broker" is VERY deeply embedded in the state dem machine (and much of the business dealings in and out of the public view), to the point where court action was needed to stop the ballot placement fuckery.
  It's also next to impossible to dig up information on county commissioners, township committee, and school board candidates. "John Doe was born in neighboring Othertown but has lived and worked in Hometown for decades. He has three children in the local school system with his wife Jane. 'I care very deeply about policy and I think things should be good, not bad.' John likes to go for long walks in the local park when he's not hang gliding at his mountain vacation house."
  Unfortunately techniques like this work, as (at least) one of the Moms Against Liberty types got voted onto the school board last term. The term before that, they were all mask-off for the standard conservative Covid crap and lost... but not by much. They scrubbed their online presence to be as generic as possible... and the only POC on the board lost her seat.
  And yes, I am prone to depression.
You intend to vote red?
- No, they were saying they didn't bother since their party was winning anyway. Easy to misread though.

Since I moved from a red state to Colorado it's been mind blowing how painless and accessible it is to vote in this state.

Before every election all registered voters automatically get a mail-in ballot, as well as a detailed book explaining every issue & candidate on the ballot with sample arguments for & against. You can then either mail the ballot or drop it off in very convenient drop boxes that are usually less than 10 min from your place. In some ways it's difficult to not have at least some idea of the political landscape for most voters.

Since I moved from a red state to Colorado it’s been mind blowing how painless and accessible it is to vote in this state.
I think that is something we need to stress here: A lot of people in America don't vote not because they are apathetic but because, well, they often don't have access because they have to work and can't get time off, and it doesn't help that certain states cut and limit the amount of voting places to prevent people from voting.
I remember seeing the images from Georgia in 2020 where there were queues around the block, hell, some fucking states have laws preventing people from offering water for people waiting in line, knowing that people will be waiting in line for a long time. And the fact the places where those polling stations tend to be set up in ways to stop certain demographics from voting is another thing. There's laws there to prevent students from voting in some states, there's laws making it hard to vote by mail, you fucking name it.
Meanwhile in the UK, I just had to fill in a PDF form and send it to my local valuation office and I could get a postal vote. No restrictions on who can do this, you can just apply.
- Yep! It's real bad, I had to wait in a line around a building on a Tuesday morning the first election I voted in. One of the big things too is that there are fewer polling centers in the city, and usually more in the suburbs (proportional to the amount of people there).
  So while you have a quarter of the eligible voting population in a city go to a single voting center, in the suburbs you have a much smaller group with a less crowded (& usually more convenient) polling area.
- in Colorado you don't even have to apply for a postal vote, it is the default voting mechanism (though in person ballot boxes are also available)
- Thats insane, here in Germany voting is always on sunday and (at least in my state, we may have some small time variations in others) I can go vote from 8-18:00, or I could do a postal vote, although I never bothered to do that because its just easier to vote in person, the lines were never really long or even existant at all.
  Right now I just have to walk 200m to the next primary school and vote there, its very easy and relaxed.
Colorado has so many props on the ballot as well since I believe anything affecting taxes has to be voted on that way. I really like the direct democracy.
- One odd holdover from TABOR (giant tax structure from the 90s that is still around in one way or another) is that any issue affecting taxes MUST BE PRINTED IN ALL CAPS FOR THE ENTIRE TEXT. It's so funny to see
You’re also automatically registered to vote here as well. There’s a reason that Colorado is on the first chart.

it really says all it needs to that dems are trying to get MORE people to vote, and GOP are trying to PREVENT as many people as possible from voting

Lets all remember that time one of the largest pop stars in the world gave a message to her fans on stage to remember to vote, and was instantly targeted by the GOP for being anti-american, and they started a beef with her that would drive thousands of people against the right.
How does anyone not see it and get what's happening? I feel like you would have to have eaten ALL the crazy pills for this to make sense.
Right?!
Like...even if you had no idea what either party stood for, or what positions they took on the various specific issues that concern the population in the present, all you really need to know is how a democracy works in theory, how presidential elections work in the US in practice (and by extension, how these two things differ, thanks to the Electoral College)...and where each party stands on voting rights, voting access, districting (and gerrymandering)...and as a dark horse...public education.
One side wants as many people as possible to get out and vote (and while they obviously hope they'll vote Democrat, most of their messaging, to their credit, is focused not on 'go vote for us', but instead 'the most important thing is that you get out there and vote'), wants to make sure that everybody who wants to vote is able to do so, has no roadblocks, hoops to jump through, bureaucratic red tape, etc., wants every voter across the country to have a voice equal to every other voter, and wants everyone to have a good (and improving) baseline of education, as a foundation upon which to make an informed decision about their voting.
The other side wants to suppress the vote, wants to disallow voting by default unless the individual takes steps to prove themselves, wants to introduce obstacles to voting access, wants to maintain and perpetuate a system where some voters have disproportionately more impact than others on the overall results (a system which, by the way, has much of its origins in the political maneuverings of slaveholders)...and most telling (and disturbing) of all, in the long term, actively, directly, and overtly makes efforts to reduce and degrade the quality of public education, literally seeking to reduce access to quality education for anyone not fortunate enough to be born into a family with the means to provide for a private education.
Seen to its logical conclusion, one side is literally seeking to revert decades if not centuries of progress on education and return to a situation where an education (and the opportunity it provides) is a privilege reserved for the children of affluence, where wealth, opportunity, class mobility, and professional occupations are reserved and exclusive to the wealthy, and in effect secured to them and their future generations indefinitely. And the best part (for them) is that once this happens, the future generations of uneducated lower and middle classes won't have the education to understand what's being done to them, or how it might be different.
- i couldn't have said it better.
  but don't forget to include that one side chose to employ fake electors
  one side staged an insurrection at the capitol to try to overturn the entire election process
  even ignoring all the fraud, adultering, rape, pornstar hush money, criminal negligence, theft of classified documents, and everything else their wannabe dictator cult leader did, the 2 things above really tell you all you need to know about republicans

I never knew Hillary won the popular vote by so much. Remind me, why the fuck does the electoral college exist???

To give a disproportionate amount of voting power to rural areas.
People look at a map and go "Oh my god look how much square footage is red" and can't comprehend the population density of large cities, so feel they are under represented.
Same principle as two Senators per state, and Congressmen are supposed to balance that out by representing population, until the artificial cap on number of Congressman.
Between that, and the insane gerrymandering, Red rural votes are just weighed higher than Blue urban votes.
- That isn't why it existed in the first place but it is part of why it still exists today. Afaik nobody has made a serious effort to get rid of it but it's time. The electoral college needs to go
So that rich land owners have more power.
It's an antiquated system from a time when travel across the country would take weeks at best
While she did win the popular vote by a wide margin the chart shows how many electors each candidate (including No Vote as a candidate) would get rather than directly representing popular vote by state.

Leaving the office empty for a term is the only democratic outcome.

Australia has mandatory voting. Why not the US?

Lmao the same people suppressing voting rights wont agree to that
Just wondering, how is mandatory voting enforced? I assume vote cops don't show up at your door.... What if you turn in a ballot with no choice marked?
- You receive a penalty notice in the mail and have to pay a fine. Similar to a traffic infringement or parking fine.
  All elections are held on a weekend and voting booths are everywhere, to make it a little easier for everyone to vote.
  You can choose to not mark the ballot, no one would know. As long as you turn up to a booth and get your name marked off, then you are considered to have voted.
  As a result, voter turnout is generally over 90%.
- You are allowed to cast an empty ballot, or write in a candidate who isn't running. You just have to participate. When you go, you get marked off an electoral roll. Those people who don't show up get a fine in the mail of something like a couple of hundred dollars. Not bad in isolation but this applies to state, federal and local elections so about 3 times in a 3-5 year period, for something which takes all of 15 minutes out of your day.
- Not sure how it is there, but in a few areas you basically lose your right to vote of you don't. Which is fair motivation.
Because mandatory anything is spun as an attack on our freedoms, and our generally-undereducated masses eat it up.
- We could probably spin it around and give a tiny tax break for those who vote. It'll still definitely get attacked though.
- You still have the freedom to not vote. However you have to go to a polling station and get your name marked off but no-one can force you to write on the piece of paper.
- and our generally-undereducated masses eat it up.
  Get some commies, they quickly will do likbez and universal education.
Netherland doesn't have mandatory voting and yet our turnup is around 75-80% consistently for years
Source https://www.parlement.com/id/vh8lnhrp8wsz/opkomst_bij_tweede_kamerverkiezingen
That said, it seems the US has a turnup problem to solve
- millions of libertarian party voters not turning up /j
Because the government really doesn't want people to have a say. People are stupid. So let's just have a mock vote with some old wizard math that adds up to who the fuck knows but your guy lost.
Would input from the people who otherwise wouldn't have bothered to show up be useful?
- It's a dangerous line of reason you're skirting around there buddy.
- The young and poor?

Ideally an electoral system should have the "none of the above" option. If it gets the majority the elections are repeated with new candidates, and previous ones are disqualified for a number of years.

I’d rather have ranked choice voting. And get rid of the stupid electoral college.
- A national RCV race would be an absolute nightmare to count if it ever became remotely competitive. Approval Voting is better in general, but especially for big, competitive elections.
When you vote in private, on paper, none is always an option. You can deposit a blank form, a form with 1 in every box, a form with zero in every box, a sketch

What if "didn't vote" counted as "voted against both options, please try again with less shitty candidates."?

I think we'd have a better world

Hot take: voter suppression would be far more widespread, as it would stalemate the current "interim" government into power. Permanently. The current system, for all its flaws, doesn't have that weakness.
- My counter to that is the interim gets executed if they go over a time limit, and new one is appointed.
What if "didn't vote" counted as "voted for both options, they're equally wonderful and we'd be happy either way"?
- Well that's what it counts as now.
- I’ll take one good option. That’s all I ask, someone to vote for, not as a vote against the other person.
- That would be amazing... If it were true
And also ranked choice voting, so there can be more than just 2 people running. F the 2 party system.
- Absolutely

I'd love to see something like ballot included in tax returns (for folks who don't otherwise request a ballot). Near-mandatory voting, with abstaining being allowed.

I'm not an American so I'm not sure I understand. Wikipedia says voter turnout in 2016 was 59.2% of the voting-eligible population. Even if we count is a percentage of the voting-age population (i.e. including people with felonies or without citizenship or barred from voting for other reasons) it's still 54.8% voter turnout.

But that bar at the top of the graph makes it look like only around 15% voted.

Can someone explain?

Does the top graph not just show that all the gray states had people that did not vote be the largest percentage.
So if for example 30% voted for Biden and 31% for Trump, you still have 39% that did not vote thus making the non voter 'candidate' win.
In this case the voter turnout is 61% yet the non voters represent the biggest share.
It's cause by FPTP. If the largest share of voters in a given state were people that didn't vote, all the electoral college votes should go to "did not vote." That doesn't happen IRL because they just ignore low voter turnout.
- It's true but for the broader picture one should add that many people don't bother to vote if their state is predicted to be a landslide victory for either candidate.
40.6% is bigger than half of 59.2%

You'd have states mandating voting, and passing laws that businesses must give staff time off to vote. That'll never get up

Clearly the office of President should be left vacant.

I live in deep red Utah. A lot of people I know do not vote because they do not see the point. These people, who stem from all political spectrums, believe “republicans will always have control over state and local political offices.”

I live in deep blue Utah with connections to the punk scene. The political apathy that has been expressed to me, while simultaneously wearing badges of pride and shit makes me want to vomit. Pure aesthetic bullshit, made even more hypocritical under the banner of ‘punk’.

An interesting idea, unless the majority of people in your state voted you get no electors to send. Force states to drive participation

The problem there is that the Constitution says the state legislators get to pick how electors are selected. They don't even have to hold popular elections, even though all 50 states currently do. In fact, the Supreme Court hinted in its decision in Bush v Gore that state legislature can change the rules between the November elections and the actual election in December.
That is: Republican legislatures can decide to ignore the election results and send Republican electors if they don't like the results.
Texas already passed a law allowing the Texas Secretary of State to overturn elections in Harris County (Houston).

Wow this diddnot voté guy seems wildly popular 🫨

None of my coworkers that want Trump to win are registered to vote. I don't know if that means anything.

No one for president.

This is why voting needs to be really easy. If a phone app/website is good enough for banking, it is good enough for voting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs
- I knew it would be that Tom Scott video
How would that not just make them vote due to whatever bullshit commercial they saw the day before?
- How is that any different to now, beyond just more people being disenfranchised from voting due to not being able to stand in line for hours?
I disagree that we need to cater to the laziest people in the country to get their vote. Voting is already very easy, especially in states with a mail-in ballot. If you can't even be bothered to open a letter, fill in a couple of bubbles, sign your name, and drop an envelope in your mailbox, then idk that we actually want your opinion on who should run the country.
By "you" I just mean anyone, not actually you.
- Disabled people exist so it wouldn't just be "catering to lazy people." And like you pointed out, not all states have mail in ballots. An online option would be good for people who literally can't stand in line for hours.

Are the states that have a majority swing states, so have more advertising and campaigning, or are they just more politically active?

Politically active. MN is decidedly not a swing state and is here.

Which is why we need to spend our energy this election on motivating voters who are already on side but think voting is pointless, rather than bothering to convince fence sitters who aren't already convinced by a Trump's behavior.

Get your friends in swing states to vote! Get them to get their friends to vote! Harris has this, especially if we can motivate even like 5-10% of non-voters!

If it didn't help other global powers, i.e. Russia, I'd say this is a reason to have New England be it's own country.

Let’s not forget the third party and Harambe stuff. Some of that flipped swing states Red.

I don't think Harambe got that many votes but I'm too lazy to look that up
aren't the libertarians on the right wing of politics and the largest 3rd party?
- Freakonomics did this one but I forget the numbers apart from what is technically the 3rd largest party, or the largest third party, exists at a minute fraction of the other 2. While 3rd largest is technically correct, they can’t compete.

Good ol’ Iowa, one of the few shamelessly voting Trump. 😓

Back in my day it was an up-and-combing purple state… and remember how quickly they permitted all-gender marriage?
- That’s what I moved here looking for. I blame Trump, honestly.

Maybe they should be.

… at least we voted! (Wisconsin)

Should be illegal or some other incentive to vote.

Nah, that's a violation of the First.

so theres lots of room for the libertarian party

Special type of stupid to see a variety of issues boiling down to “muh liburaltianisms” …truth be told most people aren’t that dumb.

we really do need a default option for "fuck off im not voting"

This will likely be the first year I won't be voting. I moved to a state with no early voting, and it's all in person. Additionally, I'm in a blue city with a red state government, so voting locations are minimal, and my job only allows 2 hours to vote. I don't really see it happening.

All of that means that it is much more important that you do vote; they are actively trying to stop you for a reason.
- I'm well aware, but I have to go to work. I'm just not sure how it is possible while meeting the obligations of my survival.
So mississippi?
- Indiana, actually.
I'm not sure what is worse: Soviet elections without choice or American elections without choosing.

And this proves that a popular 3rd party candidate can win. Too many people, rightfully so, refuse to vote for the Democrats and Republicans.

I mean….. no. Not really. 50% (more than) of the country would need to vote en masse for the same person.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that if we could get that level of unity we’d be able to fix everything. But not being that unified is why we can’t in the first place.
- Why would more than 50% need to vote for the same person when the last few elections have been won with around 37.5% of the vote?

This is the epitome of lying with statistics.