The White House claims California residents are in a state "of rebellion against the authority of the Government of the United States."

This is the language from the law that would permit the President to mobilize National Guard troops in a state without its Governor's consent.

Edited to add: found the law here, it's small and easy to read: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title10/html/USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleE-partII-chap1211-sec12406.htm

If it is invoked, it says:

Orders for these purposes shall be issued through the governors of the States

But I parse that "shall" to mean the Governor is forced to comply.

How long until he declares Martial Law?
- I mean, this is technically exactly that, albeit in a much more limited scope.
  The last time this was invoked was in 1965, during civil rights demonstrations in Alabama. But the Federal Government sent in the troops to protect the demonstrators from their local police.
  https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/march-20/lbj-sends-federal-troops-to-alabama
  This time it's the other way around.
- This is the declaration of Martial Law.
Would be interesting if there is a way that people on the right actually join the left on this since this is the thing the right armed themselves for
- The pattern I see is that most on "the right" here will not be able to break out of their disinformation bubble unless it affects them personally. So only the small portion who have seen someone they know ("one of the good ones") harassed by ICE will respond.
- They won't.
  All of their rhetoric is bullshit to obscure the fact that they hate brown people, queer people, people who aren't their religion, just anyone they're angry at, really.
  It really is that simple.
  They'll believe, to some extent, what they are saying, they'll tie themselves up in knots, but ultimately, they'll default to anything that allows them to laugh when people they think they are better than are made to suffer.
  The few that manage to resolve the cognitive dissonance and realize they are in fact hateful bigots, and that... that is bad?
  At that moment, they are no longer right wing.
- since this is the thing the right armed themselves for
  No it isn’t and it never was. That was the excuse they used to cover their gun fetish. They always saw themselves as the shock troops of the authoritarian takeover, and the fact that they are delighted it’s happening is confirmation.
They will remove governors next.
- I thought the next step was to dissolve the Senate and have the local governors use fear to keep us in line...
- That is a lot harder to do, within the bounds of the law at least.
  Ironically, though, California is one of a small handful of states that allow for recall elections of all elected office holders, up to and including the Governor. Recall that Arnold Schwarzenegger became Governer there due to a recall election. So if his goal is to start ejecting Governors he doesn't like, California is a good place to start.
  But Newsom has already survived one recall attempt, and since he seems to be the Next One Up for Democrats to nominate in 2028, Trump may not be eager to run a recall campaign that might lose, because Newsom will remind everyone that he "beat Trump" on the campaign trail. (And there is no guarantee that Musk won't start tossing money at Newsom, who is enough of a schemer to accept it.)
But I parse that "shall" to mean the Governor is forced to comply.
Under what penalty if the governor refuses to comply?
The constitution grants the authority for appointing national guard ("militia") officers to the state. The governor hires those officers; the governor can fire those officers and disband their units rather than accept federalization.

our national guard and armed forces have a decision to make: us or them. this is your time to reject fascism.

Many who join lean conservative. Many are trump supporters. Don't forget the numbers that voted for him and continue to support him.
It's not going to be that easy.
- Not really. The military is a lot more diverse than you probably realize. It's a big melting pot. So many stories of rural Americans raised in racist environments joining the military and being exposed to all kinds of people and realizing they grew up kind of fucked up.
  Contrary to what the stereotype is. A lot of military people are pretty wise and worldly. Seeing different cultures and having to deal with the fallout of failed states. It's not like they're progressives or even Lefty's. But they're not MAGA or right either.
  This is why they've been firing lots of officers as well. If nobody is aware, the trump government has been removing many many senior leadership in the military.
  I think the move right now by the left is to build bridges for people on the right who have spent their life fearing this type of action. Need to leave open the possibility that there are people on the right who understand this isn't good. Obviously there's the trump zealots. But I bet there's a group of right wingers whose fear of government over reach supersedes support for Trump. Groups like the heritage foundation will increase not activity to suppress that mentally among them. But I think we'll start seeing them speak up if we listen.
- I dunno about that. I served in the USMC and everyone was pretty left leaning in the sense of "why the fuck do I care about the color of the person covering me, we're all Marines."
  Many people serving are also minorities from low income, using the military as a step to building a life. Those people didn't seem Republican to me.
- it doesn't matter how easy or difficult it will be it needs to be done. the alternative is unfathomable.
- 2020 was the first time in decades that the military tilted blue.
LoL! Of COURSE they'll Listen to the Man CUTTING their Benefits and Pay!
Yeah. That's not a decision we have to worry about. They'll side with fascism. There is no question here.

Microwave dispersal cannons can be blocked by a large poster covered in aluminum foil. Just be sure to attach it to a wood stake.

Sound cannons are loud enough to work through strong ear protection, but sound waves are still air pressure pulses. You can disrupt the flow of the pulse with a solid enough curved shield.

If necessary, storm matchs have their own oxidizer. You can light it and wind won't put it out. Styrofoam and gasoline is sticky. Use that information however you want

Do not use a belt to stop blood flow. Get some proper tournequtes (I don't remember how to spell it). Slide it on, and turn it until the bleed stops. If you think it's too tight, turn it some more.

Edit: most military vehicles are diesel fueled. They are pretty thirsty, so be sure to share water with them. Right in the fuel tank is good enough.

microwave canons
I did not know about these, but some quick searches suggest that they pose a major threat to people's eyesight as they can boil your retina before you really feel anything when used at a low strength.
Messed up these are used at protests, fuck these fascists.
- Eh, from what I've watched "low strength" is still quick enough to trigger people to scatter.
  Remember, it obeys r squared, so if they use it and want it to be effective at distance, they can't reduce the strength a lot.
If you curve the aluminium foil somehow, you can actually refelct it back. They did tests on youtube where they used a flipped riot shield and it work.
- Sounds like you could make a curved protest sign with plywood and then hide some foil between the plywood and a paper/cardboard layer for a fairly inconspicuous shield that can block and even reflect both microwave and sound cannons.
Do not use a belt to stop blood flow. Get some proper tournequtes (I don’t remember how to spell it). Slide it on, and turn it until the bleed stops. If you think it’s too tight, turn it some more.
If you're worried about blood loss, there are some online resources for how to do first aid. I think https://www.stopthebleed.org/training/ was recommended last time this came up.
I read you need to be careful with tourniquets, because they're quite painful and if used inappropriately can cause long term damage. Used appropriately they can save a life, but you don't want them to be the first tool you reach for.
- That's a fair point, and thank you for linking stop the bleed
- Long-term damage is only really a danger after a couple hours in a proper tourniquet. Something makeshift in order to survive to a hospital is always fine. It's like CPR: breaking ribs is a small cost to pay for survival.
- Sanitary napkins and tampons for bleeding.
Sound cannons are actually pretty weird, in that they don't work like you'd imagine them to work. They produce sound when multiple beams of ultrasound collide with an object, so if they're pointed at you, you're the one producing the sound that hurts you. That's why they're so effective.
Some people online have done some tests, and thin cardboard appears to be the best way to stop them. Put the thin cardboard before you, and it stops most of the sound. It can be the cardboard from a poster, if you have one.
Ear protection headphones (for workshops) also help, and their effectiveness is enhanced further by wearing small earplugs inside. Active noise cancelling headphones don't help and can even be counter productive, so don't use those.
- To be a little more pedantic, they send ultrasound frequencies and they "degrade" into regular audible sound waves when they collide with something (combination of harmonic effects and destructive / constructive interference). The reason they send ultrasound instead of using regular directional speakers is because it's smaller wavelength is easier to aim so much more of the energy moves forwards, so you don't hear much noise coming from the source itself.
  That's why they work for "crowd control". A strong enough regular speaker would bother the operator too much.
- The noise cancelling part was particularly fascinating. Not only was it ineffective, it amplified the sound. I think its because noise cancelling circuitry relies on the ability to create a signal frequency that cancels out the initial waveform. That's all well and good, but I think the sound cannons use separate speakers out of phase. Since the noise cancelling headphones produce a signal in phase with the first frequency detected, the microsecond slight delay causes it to be added to a subsequent phase boosting the power.
Old spark plugs are really handy for craft projects since you can break them and make pretty mosaics
Riot shield turned backwards for sound assault
Would hearing protection that electronically filters sound be able to cancel out sonic cannons?
- You cannot electronically filter out sound. That’s not what they do. They just emit the same sound they hear in the opposing phase. This is risky with sonic weapons.

So the trump administration is fully admitting that the insurrection attempting to block the certification of the Presidential election 2021 on Jan 6 was open rebellion?

Holly shit. I hadn't seen that last image you posted before. I didn't realize the Jan 6 insurrectionist brought flexcuffs. That is quite disturbing. Who the fuck were they planing to kidnap or take hostage with those flexcuffs?
- Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Mike Pence, and really anyone who they deemed to have offended their god-emperor and who happened to still be in the building.
- They were probably associated with the ones that built the gallows outside on the lawn. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jan-6-gallows-construction-new-video/
- It's just part of their cosplay.
They admit no such thing.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” - Frank Wilhoit (not the political scientist who passed away in 2010, a younger one who is alive still).
- So a clone then
I know this is sarcasm but, sadly, they don't. I have talked to a few of them. Some either say it is patriot8c and others said it didn't happen.
You can't win
- others said it didn’t happen.
  Who is it they acknowledge trump pardoned when he got into office? If it didn't happen, then there as no one to pardon. Yet trump came out and gleefully pardoned the lot of them. If it was "antifa" that did it, why did trump pardon antifa?
  Keep in mind I'm not questioning you on this but them, and I know the mind of a MAGAt is finely tuned to support cognitive dissonance.
You know they would say that it was stolen, don't you?
- You know they would say that it was stolen, don’t you?
  Sure, so they would be saying that if the government arrives at an answer that they believes violates the law, then a violent riot is permissible.
  Wouldn't that same opinion then justify a violent riot in LA (if there actually was one) if the protesters believed due process law was being violated?
  They can't logically or rationally say one is right and the other wrong.

Calling it...Trump declares California to be in rebellion and suspends their votes in the electoral college and congress in the next elections.

So much other stuff will happen before then
This doesn't read as just California. It's the whole country.
- Only the blue parts
3 months ago https://lemmy.world/comment/15443605
We still had elections during the first Civil War. Trump can't stop the vote since they are run by the states.
Which would only intensify the situation and draw other states into the conflict.

ELI5, If Republicans in general don't want federal control, they want de-regulation, then why they are supporting federal control of California?

They are only against federal control when it's them who are being controlled. They are fine with it happening to other people. It's how they can claim to be pro freedom out of one side of their mouth and anti-freedom with the other. Laws for thee, none for me.
- This is extremely important to understand. As fun as it is, we really need to move away from the gotchas. The right wing are not consistent because they do not have an ideology. They are simply reactionary.
They're lying about that first part
They want small opposition, and they like to deregulate themselves.
Because the Republican Party of smaller government and lower taxes no longer exists. Now we have the MAGA Nazis, who are for lower taxes on the wealthy, higher taxes on the poor/working class, and an much larger, extremely oppressive authoritarian police state. California has a lot of money, and a lot of foreigners, and MAGA wants to control it all.
As far as deregulation goes, that will go to the corporations that pay for it. Corps that play ball will get deregulation, corps that don't play ball, will have their regulations tightened.
- You just described every authoritarian state that has existed since the beginning of humanity. Unfortunately, I must conclude that the United States is no longer a democratic country. I do not see how the citizens of the United States will free themselves from the clutches of the tyranny that will occur in the coming weeks/months.
  Authoritarian states are created overnight, but disappear after a long agony. Corporations turn into clients of the dictator because that is the only way to survive, decent people will become mute passive supporters of the tyranny with the thought "I am not like
  <them>
  and I have nothing to fear".
  Perhaps the only bright spot is that the dictator is old and has no chance of ruling for the next 10, 20, 30 years. Unless the system they are setting up is super efficient and will allow the formation of an Autocracy, a dynasty created by dictatorship. Knowing the efficiency of the American system, that is a real possibility and the next elections will be a farce.

Oh this ia what they want. They are chomping at designating leftists as enemies of the state.

The government in general is crumbling and it's corrupt "leaders" will need to ramp up authoritarianism as the constituents begin to question it's legitimacy.
They'll make use of dissenters by putting them in work camps, easing the need for cheap labor, and allowing the remaining population a chance at hiding from their duty to protect constitutional rights by continuing to provide material comforts.
Always have been Abbie Hoffman is a decent example. Plus like the whole McCarthy thing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbie_Hoffman

Great documentary!
- When California splits from the union and their army begins enlisting/recruiting, I’d be willing to throw my hat in the ring for the cause.
- I really enjoyed the ending.

The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.

Catch-22, Joseph Heller

Here we go. Buckle up and arm yourselves.

Isn't this the same as saying *the government is working against the will of it's populace"

This is another step in Project 2025

Provoke outrage with the mass deportations, then use that outrage to justify marshal law and deploying the military.

(martial)
- I don't care, I am tired of fighting my autocorrect on every 3rd word.
- A step up from sheriff law? I'm not familiar with US legalese.
- Damn, Marshall law is on trump's side now?
  What are we doing, folks?
I’ve been talking about this for a decade now and a lot of people accused me of being a conspiracy theorist.
Time is a flat circle that only consists of about 100 years. Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it (or rhyme, whatever) and those that do learn from history are doomed to watch everyone else repeat it.
- its annoying and stupidifying how goddamn stupid humanity is that all it takes is 1 generation of removal to repeat the exact same fucking bullshit,

Can California please just withhold taxes already and put this country out of its misery?

They can't, you pay taxes directly to the government.
- That's not completely true.
  Your employer withholds your federal taxes from your paycheck.
  The state of California employs a lot of people. The state can intercept those funds, refusing to send them to the IRS. That obviously only affects state employees, but it is feasible.
  The state could go on to act as a staffing agency, "hiring" workers whose labor is then contracted to private businesses. The state would then be doing the withholding for their employees, and the business would be contracting with the state.
- There are plenty of ways around that, but it requires actual rebellion.
- Yep. Totally true. You are born, and the taxes are automatically deducted from your existence. There is no way for a state to change the amount paid, or to whom the taxes are paid. Absolutely impossible.

The biggest national security threats are Trump, the Heritage Foundation, MAGA, and Musk

Not only to the nation, The entire world, Humanity, literally anything that is alive.
- There might be some bigger threats to the world elsewhere. Ever wonder WHY we're sending so much money to- shot by a sniper
- Hey don't trow indigenous groups, animals, fungi and plants it to this.
  The problem seems to be specifically people that live with computers.

Time to make that a reality.

Exactly. No federal aid money? Fine, we won't pay federal taxes. Going to claim we're rebelling? Well, alright then.
- How does that happen though? It's deducted from paychecks by employers. So unless a large number of employers (especially bigger ones) have the inclination and means to block such deductions on their payroll software, it won't happen. And I don't see a lot of larger companies wanting to jump into a legal violation with the federal government.
  Edit: fixed some typos.

Sounds like it's going to be a violent summer. As soon as the first protestor gets injured or killed, this will start to spin out of control.

Protesters already have been getting injured to the point of hospitalizations.
Riot boy summer is back!

Sounds like bro wants to start the plot to the movie civil war.

Is that worth watching?
- Its less about the war and more about journalism and the limits of the human capacity for violence over time. IMO excellent film, amazing performance from Kirsten Dunst
- I thought so. Don’t go in with expectations. Enjoy the ride.
- Yeah it is. The whole film is worth watching for about 4 key scenes, and the last 15 minutes are very satisfying.
- Yeah it's a good movie. But I think Leave the World Behind is more accurate to humanity at current times.
- Watch the korean film A Taxi Driver instead.
- It wasn't when it came out. It is now.
If it has the same ending I'm down.

Right to freedoms of assembly and expression.

They need to chill.

And listen.

"Why won't these fascists just chill and talk things out?!?!!?"
- Yeah… not exactly their style.

The government is at war with the Constitution and the rule of law.

So is the red line crossed yet or is the goal post once again some indeterminate point in the future.

History won't tell the beginning of the Trump regime at that indeterminate point. It began when he rode down that piss yellow escalator.

" In addition, the Secretary of Defense may employ any other members of the regular Armed Forces as necessary to augment and support the protection of Federal functions and property in any number determined appropriate in his discretion." 100% illegal according to Posse Comitatus Act.
Deploying Marines, Space Force, Navy Army or Airforce in the US against the US is prohibited
- Minor nitpick: national guard soldiers under title 32 is totally fine (the George Floyd protests), however that requires the state governor's approval. Trump bypassed that by putting them on title 10 orders which is active duty. Those are typically only for training or overseas deployment, and not for actual deployment within the US (though I think the south border mission may be an exception).
  So, he's already violating the law, but also putting provisions to use active duty soldiers as well which is double against the law.
- Like this administration adheres to rules.

Hey national guard members, get the fuck out of the way or get steamrolled. You’re not heroes.

You know what? Yeah. GFY trump.

The Confederacy was in a state of rebellion too. He's equated standing up to ICE, which is seemingly similar to when the Bostonians stood up to and were massacred by the British, with the Confederate's bombing of Ft. Sumter.

Welcome to the rebellion.

I'm in.

Well that’s scary holy shit this is definitely a step up on the fascism ladder

Heh. One picture says what's on most every reasonable Americans mind.

This is the beginning of a nation wide revolution, from the democrats, but the republicans are not sad about it because it push the public away. They forget, or look to California, that Trump is incompetent and they vote him. It would not be the first President, that call demonstrates criminals or revolutionary's and hunt them, to form a autocratic State.......

Governor Newsome should release a statement that he and his cabinet will be discussing the effects of a possible change in State structure. If the world's 4th largest economy were to secede from the Union, frumpy would be screwed.

Texas will be so pissed. They're threatening to do it for centuries but can't pull it off.
Just wondering: if California just stopped paying federal taxes would the net effect be the same? That way they haven't gone through the process of seceding, but at the same time they are refusing to entirely be part of the union.
- Also, it was the conservatives who helped weaken unions by making dues optional but forcing the union to represent non-payers anyways. Sounds perfect here. California can just stop paying, but get the protection and benefits of a tax paying state.
  Plus, conservatives would absolutely fucking love this if it was Texas threatening not to pay taxes if their money goes to doctors who preform abortions or some other equally absurd shit.
  Since we have allowed the Presidency to become a joke why not our whole nation. /S
- If California stopped paying taxes, most of the south would be screwed.

I wonder now what my ex-housemate thinks of Trump. He is one of those centrist types who thinks excessive power from one side needs to be counteracted by the other, but mostly pay lip service to the right. He dislikes the right in his country which ruled for 13 years and voted centre left, but supports Trump and right wing parties in Europe because of too much immigration in the West. But at the same time, he supports Palestine. My ex-housemate means well for the most part, but he is one of those men who are vulnerable to disinformation.

He dislikes the right in his country which ruled for 13 years and voted centre left, but supports Trump and right wing parties in Europe because of too much immigration in the West
If feels like you're burying the lede here.
"In his country" suggests he's an immigrant. This means he too, is an immigrant right? How does he resolve this hypocrisy? Or when he says "too much immigration in the West" is he just a racist and is referring to people with different color skin?
- “In his country” suggests he’s an immigrant. This means he too, is an immigrant right? How does he resolve this hypocrisy?
  Duh, because he's one of the good immigrants.
- Or the person you're replying to, talking about an EX-house mate is the the immigrant. You're reading suggestions that aren't there.

Using military on your own citizens… hmmm where have I heard about this before?

Oh. Last term. Immediately. He deployed the national guard on pipeline protesters, remember?
🇨🇳 Tiananem 2

So they fucking should be.

You know if you shatter a spark plug, those little bits will 100% break a car window when thrown?

They are also VERY sharp (ceramic fragments) so wear cutproof gloves
You can get a nice little tool that will do the job as well, it’s good to have one in your car incase you ever need to break a window to get out asap, they’re dirt cheap and they will shatter the window from inside as well as out

As everyone should be.

Finally. Can we get a list of other States to join them?

If the White House is scared now just wait…

They should be. Meanwhile, the governor, while criticizing Trump, was still whitewashing him when he said he would be willing to work with him. That's the thing, fascist dictators will fabricate if they are not able to force a situation, and sometimes that's to handle the situation before it ever gets a chance to materialize. Look at Erdogan and the failed 2016 military coup that basically disarmed any further attempts against him. Trump wants to prevent and punish rebellion because he knows that where he is going to bring the United States is going to instill a lot of it.

States do need to secede, the US is no longer operating within the constitution, it is their only out, and Trump is going to do everything to prevent it. The problem is, a lot of states should be coordinating together on this and falling back to Articles of Confederation between them to retain their autonomy and prevent the subverted military agencies from invading them. It really requires a mindset to resist forcefully if necessary while people are still getting brainwashed through their social network bubbles and the militarized occupation forces are already present. The constitution is no longer in effect, all branches of government are now irrevocably corrupt, and Trump is crowning himself not as a modern king but as the type of king the thirteen colonies rebelled against.

According to trump anyone that uses more than 0% of their brain and anything about a 3 letter word is in rebellion of him.

Is there a good argument for why any society not in collapse should submit to any "higher" authority?

STaTeS rIgHtS

I'm just waiting for the west coast to break off and do it's own thing

Imagine California, Oregon, and Washington form a pact, with the Rockies giving them a natural protective barrier. Then they form an alliance with Canada and Mexico, and surround 2/3 of the United States with hostile powers, who also control ALL shipping into the West Coast. If MAGA America wants their goods from Asia, they'll have to pay California's tariffs on EVERYTHING.
Or, they could route everything through the Panama Canal, with all the extra costs associated with that. Perhaps CA/OR/WA can form an alliance with Panama, and close it to MAGA America shipping.
- That's honestly the best case scenario. As unlikely as it is.
  This country is too big. Too corrupt. And far too corrupted to fix. To begin to fix this country we have to get both houses of congress and the president to overturn Citizens United. Now how many of those people do you think are going to vote to make the bribes being paid to them illegal?
  Now if for whatever reason the US was to balkanize. To break up into smaller "nation states". That would make real change a whole lot more viable.
- Texas wouldn't blink at a chance to do that
- Probably most places Colorado and wester tbh
One can only hope
Wait, so that old animated video about "End of the world" is pretty much becoming true perhaps? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs

In addition, the Secretary of Defense may employ any other members of the regular Armed Forces as necessary to augment and support the protection of Federal functions and property in any number determined appropriate in his discretion.

As I understand, this is not a thing the regular Armed Forces can do, correct? I thought that only the National Guard could conduct non-training operations on US soil and/or against US citizens, barring an invasion or secession. Does anyone know more than me about this?

Yes. Out of the federal military branches, only the coast guard can: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

Noem tried to peddle habeas corpus, a legal principle with centuries of legal tradition, as Trump's right to do whatever he wants. Of course they would sell what's going on in LA as whatever fits their agenda.

No, just Trump and his losers.

Where's the cartel when you need em!?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?! I agree with every single comment criticizing the current shitty US leadership.

Yes, and...?

Brits: this is what will happen if you let Farage in.

Act now to prevent it.

Based

In addition, the Secretary of Defense may employ any other members of the regular Armed Forces as necessary to augment and support the protection of Federal functions and property in any number determined appropriate in his discretion.