A lot of libs in those comments are proving this post is 100% true. "It's okay because they're on our side". And, how it's important to "uphold US unipolar hegemony" 💀
Remember in 2016 when libs pretended they wanted to punch and de-platform nazis? Lmao, turns out that was 100% complete and total opportunist bullshit
I never get tired of seeing the receipts
Pretty soon they're going to be flying Nazi flags to symbolize their support for Ukraine, and they're going to fall back on the 'ol "the Swastika is acktchually a symbol of PEACE from an ancient religion!! Decolonize the swastika!!!"
Idea to make liberals realize that Churchill was bad: call him a tankie because he collaborated with Stalin, the enemy of democracy worldwide and the murderer of innocent Germans
edit: I'm actually wondering how far you could take this line of thought, I wonder if you like couched it in enough anti-Russian rhetoric you could make liberals just straight up pro-Nazi Germany.
"The Russian disinformation propaganda campaign against this admirable elderly man is disgusting honestly. Totally against civility and all this arguing about it only serves to strengthen Putin's position in his genocidal terror war against Ukraine. Frankly, I think that murdering Nazis merely for having views that could be considered unpleasant, like some tankies online have been suggesting we do to this gallant old man, is totally uncivil and against all morality and decorum; really, our actions in World War 2 went overboard when we could have tried to rehabilitate and reason with the Germans, with civilly and with respect, rather than resorting to violence. Beginning to really have second thoughts about the role of FDR and Churchill in the war. The true enemy was, of course, the tankie genocidal dictator Stalin, and we would have done better to have allied with Germany against the USSR, regardless of the questionable human rights record of the Germans at that time."
never mind, just realized that I've seen liberals with this take unironically (usually the exact same people who also think that the Soviets having a non-aggression pact with the Nazis proves that they are both fascist regimes)
if you like couched it in enough anti-Russian rhetoric you could make liberals just straight up pro-Nazi Germany.
The Russian disinformation propaganda campaign against this admirable elderly man is disgusting honestly
You joke but when addressing this Trudeau literally said "it's important that we continue to push back against Russian propaganda and Russian disinformation"
"If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don't want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances." -Harry S. Truman
I've been noticing that a lot of them have been doing speedruns of this lately
There are decades where libs are unscratched and nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades of scratches happen.
This is the flowering of years of reactionary seed-sowing. The population has been primed for decades on Holodomor soft-holocaust denial, anti-soviet cold war propaganda and more recently: Ukraine Nazis being the Good Nazis TM.
What else would we expect? Of course this is the natural result of a bunch of people believing these things. It's the active re-writing of history and the slow boiling nazifaction of hundreds of millions of people
And they'll still insist that they hold the moral high ground. "The adults in the room" lol
not just "was in thr Waffen SS uniform", volunteered to wear it
oh no stepstaffel i accidentally tripped and fell into this uniform and now I'm stuck
:uno-reverse: "stalin didn't personally eat all of the ukranians with his giant spoon so it's unfair to hold him accountable"
I don’t understand the ultimate goal here. What is the point of this meme that has been flooding lemmy lately? Liberals follow major media outlets. Major media outlets like simple stories of good and bad. So they conveniently ignore things that don’t fit into that narrative…but the same is true of every single world event.
What is the ultimate point of this? It’s obviously not to point out what I just stated. There is a goal here and it seems…like supporting Russia, a global superpower and aggressor, in a war against—what is being painted here as just a bunch of nazis. The unspoken message here is, “you don’t want to support a bunch of nazis. Go russia.”
Am I…missing something?
liberals hate socialists more than they hate fascists, and despite their protestations they will side with the fascists when push comes to shove. this is yet another example of it. no, russia isn't socialist, but the cold war propaganda runs so fucking deep that that fact doesn't actually matter, "russia" is still equated with "communism" 30+ years after the fall of the soviet union.
we don't support russia, we support ending the war with minimal further death. that happens atm to mean "not sending over a bunch of weapons while cheering to send another country's people into a defensively-fortified meatgrinder"
that's ideologically-committed liberals, mind you. plenty of people are just ambiently "liberals" because conservatives are so blatantly odious, so this isn't like a curse or something and normal people can snap out of it before reaching the "defending literal nazis" stage
we don't support russia
Speak for yourself, I do and I hope they have complete and total victory over NATO proxies. You have a revolutionary defeatist duty to critically support Russia in this fight against your empire. Fence-sitting is not revolutionary defeatism, revolutionary defeatism means critically supporting the opponents of your own side.
I just kinda don’t want to go posting really hard about it. (This is all I could realistically do and I do not like posting really hard about things)
I don’t understand the ultimate goal here. There is a goal here and it seems…like supporting Nazis, allied with a global superpower and aggressor, in a war against—what is being painted here as just a bunch of Russians. The unspoken message here is, “you don’t want to support Russia. Go Nazis.”
Am I…missing something?
“you don’t want to support a bunch of nazis. Go russia.”
A big part of why I ended up hear in hexbear is because it's one of the only places where everybody doesn't lie about your beliefs to just off handedly dismiss your concerns.
It's really interesting how everybody actually in this sub talks about how it's bad Russia invaded and they're deffinitly aggressors and denounce them, we just think nazis are bad.
At a certain point after seeing dozens of people say "you said nazis are bad therefore you support russia" you kind of stop giving a shit what the people actively lying abaout you are saying.
We're sating we don't support a bunchbof nazis.
Dumbshit libs then have to insist that it's because we're just a bunch of Russian nationalists, because otherwise they might have to wrestle with the thought that they're frothing mad at people for saying nazis are bad.
A big part of why I ended up hear in hexbear is because it's one of the only places where everybody doesn't lie about your beliefs to just off handedly dismiss your concerns.
Ok, then I won't lie and will state the truth as bluntly as possible. I personally think the anti-Russia stance of western socialists is chauvinist and incoherent and have argued as much constantly here, with mixed support. As I have explained down below, it's a western socialist's revolutionary defeatist duty to oppose their own empire by being a fifth column and critically supporting its enemies. Lenin was quite clear on this, it does not mean passive fence sitting and both-sidesism. It in fact, is much the opposite. It's active attacks on one's own imperialist government through organized activity to interfere with NATO war funds, NATO war supplies, NATO war support, etc.
It's an incoherent position to say "I oppose my nation's imperialism but I also oppose the enemies of my nation". You don't get to say both. We can argue if the invasion in February 2022 was a strategic error or not, but that doesn't really matter because we are not Russian war strategizers. We are western socialists. Do you understand your place and role? It's to weaken your empire, and if you can work with its enemies to do so you should.
It's really interesting how everybody actually in this sub talks about how it's bad Russia invaded and they're deffinitly aggressors and denounce them, we just think nazis are bad.
Z. Russia is defending itself and I support their invasion. I think Nazis are bad and need violent action taken against them when they build up concentrated military power. I'm glad someone is finally doing it, despite Putin being a liberal cuck who waited 8 years too long to do it - strung along by EU perfidy.
I do think it's bad Russia invaded but also both parties are the aggressor here. NATO has been gearing up for this kind of conflict since at least the early 90s. The coup in 2014 was like the dress rehearsal for right now.
Russia invading was honestly a strategic mistake and it's a tragedy this came to open warfare, but it's not like Russia invaded for no reason, or only to secure power for its own sake. The separatists have been fighting in the region for a while.
While the start of the war might have been different, at this point though NATO is the primary aggressor. They refuse any calls for ceasefire from the Russian side, they continue flooding Ukraine with guns, they keep up the message they'll keep fighting until even Crimea is Ukraine again. Just these impossible lofty goals designed to keep the war churning. NATO loves this war. They've cemented Ukraine as a permanent ally against Russia and they have cause to stir up another permanent war. More quagmires.
But this is kind of my point. The viewpoint depicted in this meme and the bunches of others like it I’ve seen lately is just propaganda going the other way.
It’s a complete oversimplification—and this is EXACTLY what everyone is saying liberals are guilty of. And while it’s true of liberals because it’s a simple narrative that is easy to paint sides into (and American politics is nothing if not ideas painted two colors for ease of identity), it’s also very true of what’s happening here.
People who paint themselves as communist are saying “Ukraine = Nazis,” and just because Russia has a communist history, see “Russia=communist.”
It’s the same sickness that’s completely rotten in the US: a massive oversimplification for ease of allegiance to your stated party/ideals. This one is just painted communist and therefore is getting praised around here.
I am torn, I go back and forth. The main polity I blame is the US for just endless reasons, but mainly the maidan coup. That I'm consistent on. I go back and forth on if Russia's invasion is justified. My gut instinct, like you, is to say that war is bad so Russia, while reacting to real hostilities from the greater west, should not have resorted to invasion.
The powerful posters at Hexbear keep reminding me that Russia did hold off for 8 years. Ukraine and NATO lied about Minsk. And when you think about the people of Donbas, it makes Russia feel more justified. Ukraine has been bombing it's own cities for nearly a decade. Do those people deserve to suffer? Obviously this war is terrible for the average Ukrainian, but so it is for the Russian speaking Ukrainians.
But the alarm about nazis in Ukraine started during Maidan protests. The phrase 'Revolution of Dignity' was coined by a far-right Ukrainian during this time. This was before Crimea was annexed and the far-right started doing violence against ethnic Russian-Ukrainians in Donbas. This is not a new thing. Canada just made it much more obvious. There's tons of mainstream media reporting from 2014 to 2019 about Ukraine's neo-nazi militias being a major concern.
Zelensky was elected to diffuse this tension within Ukraine. He campaign on resolving this issue peacefully. He won majorities in eastern Ukriane and didn't do as well in the western Ukraine where the Banderites are. Do you know anything about the history of Ukraine?
Tracing the origins of 'Revolution of Dignity':
according to some research here, it started with far-right/fascist political leaders in Ukraine
Oleh Tyahnybok (literally a leader of the national-socialist party of Ukraine) seems to have been the first to popularize the term to a broader audience of Ukrainians. He's the guy in the picture with all the libs and doing the nazi salute.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-National_Party_of_Ukraine
The party combined radical nationalism, neo-fascist and anti-communist positions.
Since you invoked whataboutism first by bringing up Russia, allow me to invoke whataboutism of my own. Supporting Russia is morally superior to supporting the United States. There is no possible way for you refute this using evidence. While America was engaged in illegal wars of aggression against what, I believe SEVEN different countries under Obama, none of you liberals that supposedly love democracy ever once advocated for the complete and total economic and social isolation of America from the rest of the world until they resolved their authoritarian issues. You NEVER speak about America and its allies with the vitriol you reserve for Russia, China, and Iran, who all commit significantly less violence upon the world COMBINED than America does alone.
Supporting Russia is morally superior to supporting the United States.
Thank you, I’m a fellow hexbear who supports Russia for all its imperfections. I’m also Jewish so I’m happy with almost anyone mercing Nazis. Americans likewise have no right to criticize any other country, and saying that both sides are equally bad merely helps the aggressor, which anyone with an awareness of history prior to 2022 knows is amerikkka.
Western communists should also realize that a clear NATO defeat in Ukraine could create new opportunities for us in our own countries, while I think we all know that a NATO victory will lead to more of the same fucking bullshit.
Lol please point to what you understand as “whataboutism” in what I said
So...if Ukraine wins or collapses or it just devolves into a forever war, there's going to be a lot more Nazis in eastern Europe and a surge in reaction. Ukraine, if it survives, will be a fascist state once Zelensky looses the unifying pressure of war. If it doesn't Europe will be flooded with ukranian irredentist groups and Polish Gallacia will be essentially fascist.
To preserve NATO, these reactionaries will need to be accomodated, much as Turkey is. Sobthe public must be primed.
The EU has already had to make accommodations with Polish Fascists. And the only reason the Hungarians haven't been rehabilitated is that they're sticking with a pro Russia strategy. The one silver lining is that all these Nationalists hate each other and have trouble coordinating without a dominant party forcing them.
What others said, but also it's funny to make fun of Canadian parliament eating shit. Standing ovation to a literal uniformed Nazi is pretty embarrassing and they should feel embarrassed.
Z. All Nazis will be obliterated.
These people externalize evil.
The only people that embody evil are Nazis, fascists, and racists who adulate, materially support, and enact violence on behalf of that ideology.
Liberals are squeamish about embracing this evil, and would rather, through the depraved indifference of inaction and believing they have these fascists on a leash, enable its arrival and contamination into the rest of liberal society.
If Russia can be destroyed, they will know peace. If China can be destroyed, they will know peace. If Iran, If Venezuela, if if if... the list goes on.
Of course, this whole conflict is about cutting Russian gas from Europe, ensuring the US secures its energy market there. After which the goal was to bring Russia into a quagmire that hopefully weakens the Russian state - maybe Balkanizing it - so the Belt & Road Initiative is delayed or defeated.
The vision of the West is to plunge the rest of the world into servitude, poverty, and exploitation to maintain the "garden" that is Europe.
I think it's worth noting that, prior to the war, the default position was "There are definitely Nazis in Ukraine and we should be concerned about that." The position changed to "There are no Nazis in Ukraine" on the day the invasion started and people have been flailing around since trying to figure out how to reconcile that against years of generally accepted reporting on the rise of the Ukrainian far-right.
Even trying to just FIND articles about this sort of thing, I have to configure search to only look for items prior to invasion
Otherwise I just get items about how it's Russian propaganda (or nothing)
Yeah I have a bookmarked search setting for pre-February 2022 searches because of how rapidly the entire media landscape changed overnight. Have to use a lot of archives and waybackmachines as well, since a lot of it was deleted or edited later. All the "pro-Russian" media also got censored and banned and is just gone now, which includes a lot of leftist smaller independent media. FAIR and Grayzone and Mint Press are all suppressed in google search algos compared to pre-Russiagate hysteria
It's super visible in the YouTube comments on Vice's video about the rise of neo-Nazis in Ukraine prior to the war. Any pre-war comments are basically "wow this is concerning, hope Ukraine finds a way to stop this", post-war comments are "wow vice is Putler propaganda now"
Ukraine never even tried, they like "this"
"Wow, all of these major publications that are currently supporting the war in Ukraine sure were posting a lot of Russian propaganda before the war. Are we sure we can trust them now?"
This is a dumb gotcha I made up in my head that won't work on liberals because they're perfectly okay contradicting themselves constantly.