Is there any point to voting Biden?

Letting the democratic party know that you don't mind genocide.

I'm trans and terrified of Trump, but refuse to vote for Genocide Joe. I pray daily for the death of them both

And what? Get left with Nikki Haley next? All our options suck.
- It's just funny if they die, plus I think Nikki Haley or Kamala being president would surely make the US weaker anyway. Both are corporate ghouls who have no support from their party.
- All our options suck.
  By design.
- Lmao “I wish these two evil people would die”
  “How dare you”
- they should just pick me to be president instead

I see every liberal around me enthusiastically wiping the blood on their hands onto their face like they're the German kid from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. This makes me mad because in 2020 I voted PSL and it turns out they're anti-genocide, so I don't have any blood on my hands from then. 2024 is my only chance to get some of that blood before the most important election of our lives in 2028. Joe Biden has swung so far to the right that this is my opportunity to vote for unlimited genocide on the third world without looking like a bad person.

A vote for Biden is a vote for genocide, so, no

to demonstrate submission to democrats and to grant legitimacy to liberal democracy as it kills you

I live in a swing state and I’m not voting for Biden or Trump. The trans genocide / end of abortion rights is already happening under Biden, and even democrats on the local, county, and state levels who pretend to care about this will still vote endless amounts of money to the police.

Also, it really seems like people don’t understand the electoral process as much as they think.

Say that some kind of left populist was (somehow) received the most electoral votes. I feel like I can say with near absolute certainty that the delegates who actually vote would not allow this to happen and even if they did, another entity with more power would stall the process and/or change the rules, and everyone would accept that as normal.

This is why I believe voting at the national level is fundamentally pointless. How anyone can believe they’re making a difference at this point is beyond me.

Ignoring the genocide for just a sec (what a fucking wild sentence) but at this point, I don’t even think Biden would be better for minorities than Trump. Because it really comes down to STaTeS RIgHts at the end of the day, and if you live in a red state, you’re not going to change anything without collective organization

I feel like I can say with near absolute certainty that the delegates who actually vote would not allow this to happen
The electors are chosen by the party at the same convention where the candidate is nominated. If the party opposed their own candidate they would just not have nominated them in the first place.
and even if they did, another entity with more power would stall the process and/or change the rules, and everyone would accept that as normal.
You’re right here though. It’s up to each state’s government (usually the state Attorney General) to finalize the result of their election and thus pick which slate of electors they send.
Alternatively, it’s up to Congress to actually count the electoral votes and finalize the election. That’s what January 6th was about. They have since passed a resolution saying that part of the process is a formality that can’t have an effect on the result, but they’d absolutely ignore that if necessary.
But it depends on who that “left populist” is. If Bernie had won, they likely wouldn’t have gone that extreme but rather just stalled his policies in Congress and the courts. He’d get some basic (and acceptable to capital) progressive policies through via executive order - like descheduling weed - but he’s too much of a lib to do anything much further left than the New Deal. Remember, Bernie’s policies wouldn’t stop capitalism but rather save it from itself (temporarily ofc).
If Claudia de la Cruz somehow won, yeah they’d probably stop that.

To enthusiastically affirm your support for genocide

I'm waiting for comrade Trump to have US leave NATO. (I'm a Euro tho)

He's not going to leave nato, he's going to threaten to leave nato to force euros to do more austerity to pay for weapons sales.
- That's still a funny enough outcome honestly. America forcing Europe to destroy itself from the inside out would be fantastic. Extremely critical support to that outcome I guess.
- This is still good and inevitable, I think. I'd imagine the analyses of many forumgoers here is the US inevitably will follow a similar trajectory to the previous Nazi state, with Biden prolonging the inevitable because his people have managed decline their entire careers. That role is not difficult by any stretch of the imagination, it's the default do-nothing position which keeps the public funding the empire and the ruling class as shareholders of the increasingly automated war machines and surveillance equipment. North America is the strategic position, physically, and where most of the ruling class is ultimately forced to hole up down the road. At least Trump's people and personality hasten or deepen the fractures in NATO, or inadvertently bolster multipolarity. It'll be less comfortable at home for a few years if he does win, it's not like we necessarily deserve better though

:bugs-no:

I'm gonna go against the grain and say yes, yes there is.

If you're white middle or upper class and don't care about anyone but yourself, then yes, there are many points to voting for Biden.

Yes the point of voting for Biden is to telegraph that you love his support for ethnic cleansing

On an individual level your vote means nothing. Vote (or don't) for whoever makes you feel best

In the Weimar Republic would your individual vote have stopped the rise of fascism?

I voted for Hillary in 2016 and Trump won. I voted 3rd party and Brandon won. There is no correlation between my individual vote and who won. It's possible to "vote wrong" as a lib may put it and the 'good guys' (brandon) still wins. It's possible to vote for the 'right side of history' and the freaking cheeto still wins

Don't make such a big deal out of it

Best thing you can do is write in for John Brown

Or Lenin

There’s no point where I live; even with Taylor Swift’s opposition, Trump is going to get like 66% of the vote.

No.

Vote for Afroman 2024. The only candidate to bring back showboating into sports.

This swimmer just got insta disqualified after breaking a record, went into his finished team mate's lane to hug and congratulate. Talk about seeing someone die inside after a hard earned win.
- I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
  yewtu.be
  inv.nadeko.net
  yt.artemislena.eu
  piped.video

You ask yourself. If we hogs have an opinion, you could take some advice from that... maybe somewhere else, from lemmygrad.ml, lemm.ee, discusstech, lemmy.world, redd.hat. etc...

Honestly, no point for me, if the Dems couldn't prosecute Trump, who has certainly abetted a riot at the D.C Capitol and screwed up on their taxes blatantly, just to make a whataboutism on the worse enemy to win the election without changing their presidential candidates...

They've fucked up real hard...

whataboutism

No

It's great if you want to break your arm jerking yourself off.

Only if you’re misogynistic. I’m Still With Hillary.

Well look, we've got two capitalist parties and both of them are bad in different ways. You might reasonably argue that Biden would yield better domestic policy w.r.t. culture war stuff, and that Trump would (through sheer incompetence / disregard of state bureaucracy / campism from the arguer) result in better foreign policy, etc. etc. I think that means that Biden is not strictly better than Trump. Which tradeoffs to take is an analytical task that's beyond me; depends on how ready the left is to respond. Luckily I live in a blue state so my presidential vote doesn't matter.

If your state has an uncommitted option in the primary, I encourage you to do that. The campaign in Michigan clearly spooked the Dems, and the same result in more states might result in federal policy changes.

If your state has an uncommitted option in the primary, I encourage you to do that.
Or vote for other Dems (e.g., local elections) but do not vote for president.
- or write in "genocide joe" so that they have to argue those votes mean biden in court if it's close

e: disclaimer, I am not going to vote for Biden and I feel that I need to say that explicitly to manage the discussion happening below

the way I see it is that a Biden 2024 win will be loosely equivalent to a Trump 2024 win in Ukrainian/Russian deaths, Gazan deaths, jingoism in Taiwan, border/migrant deaths, and impoverished deaths, but Biden will be notably better than Trump about trans people deaths, so Biden is really only like a 95% Trump. I'm also suspicious of how thoroughly Trump can be handled into implementing Project 2025, I think he's very stupid and not good at following orders, but even a half way implemented Project 2025 is much scarier than another 4 years of neoliberal purgatory.

The flipside of that though is that the dems will truly never run anyone but a neoliberal unless they get completely decimated and see that their existing strategy buys them nothing but ruin. If they get their faces kicked in hard enough running Biden, who knows, they might actually run a berniecrat in 2028. Not likely, given that what I'm describing is the loose equivalent of Hillary getting annihilated in 2016 and then them actually letting Bernie run in 2020, but it's a thought.

Honestly, I think Biden winning is (slightly) worse for all the overseas wars and the genocide in Palestine. Trump's sycophants are terrible at running the war machine, they're fragmented and incompetent. They're more concerned with their individual career trajectories than the projects of the state. Biden's admin also has a fair bit of that, but people like Blinken and Nuland are closer to ideological true believers, who have stopped at nothing and continue to scale up these conflicts, everything else be damned. He's also completely ambivalent to the red states putting trans people and the parents of trans children on lists, forbidding trans healthcare, etc. I don't buy the argument that he's better than Trump on trans issues. Trump is no more likely to get blue states to destroy trans rights than Biden is to get red states to leave trans people alone. But that's just my cis opinion.
The flip side is that, as much as there's incompetent careerist ghouls in Trump's team, like Bolton or Giuliani, there also are some insane neocon/fascist true believers too, and those are the scariest people in politics.
vote PSL or Green if you're gonna vote.
- Trump in 2020 would have been the harm reduction candidate through his incompetence and a democratic majority in the house/senate. We'd have the exact same COVID denialism, lack of economic relief, wars, inaction toward LGBT and reproductive rights, funding of the police and military, and border policy. The only difference would be that liberals would have to put their names next to opposing those things. Even if it's only rhetorical, the left would slip in like it did in 2018. Instead Blue MAGA gets to hoot and holler at the worst of their politicians and we are tied to them by the voters.
  Democrats would be entering 2024 in a much stronger position with a much stronger candidate. 2022 and 2024 would both have more radicals, there'd be more opposition to Israel and less support for Ukraine, Ukraine would have probably ended much sooner with the same result and hundreds of thousands of lives saved. Liberals would still believe COVID exists and BLM could have probably maintained momentum as the economy continued to get worse. Locally the democrats were instead allowed to take comfort in voting blue no matter who working as a result of being the opposition party. They voted blue and checked out entirely leaving us with functionally right-wing politicians who rode the 2018 progressive wave.
- direct quote from the official text of project 2025 (emphasis mine):
  Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.
  You can call it vapid virtue signaling if you want, but the fact of the matter is that they are gunning for unitary executive power, and every single person who holds that unitary executive power will believe this and rule accordingly.
- I mean, I know they won't, me saying that they probably won't is the start of the very next sentence that you left off your quote. We saw this with Bernie in 2016/2020, I'm just hoping something might change if they lose yet again but even harder this time. Again, probably not, but we're certainly not seeing a Berniecrat win in 2028 if Biden takes it in 2024
- But maybe enough Dems will be disgusted by the neoliberals that do nothing AND eat shit that they turn left.... /hopium
but even a half way implemented Project 2025 is much scarier than another 4 years of neoliberal purgatory
not to dems: they get to fundraise indefinitely with no expectation that they ever wield power again
who knows, they might actually run a berniecrat in 2028.
who? there's no bench and the dems like it that way
- I think a 2028 Berniecrat W would not be a result of the Dems finally wising up and running a Berniecrat, but instead be the result of a party leadership crisis in 2024 leading to the progressives winning smaller elections actually seizing enough party leadership to gum up any potential 2028 ratfucking.
Project 2025 would be interesting because they are literally declaring class war on the democratic liberal base. Cheney was the only true accelerationist. Except his vision is "we need a Caesar".
The DNC won't learn. They'll just keep doubling down because their money is on the line.

Idk it’s bleak

So many people I’ve talked to use voting or not voting in national elections as a purity test, so from that POV, it’s almost an act of self care if you don’t want to lose people you care about

before the border wall waivers i would've said that federal appointments under democrats are better but it doesn't seem like it matters and i don't think a slightly better EPA that they don't listen to anyway because they're capitalists first is anywhere near enough to excuse the fucking genocide.

the project 2025 culture war shit is scary but they didn't protect abortion rights and they take all the minority votes completely for granted, so i don't really understand why people think the democrats would actually do something to protect us from that.

I will be writing in Bashar al-Assad

no

I'm not voting for him. I don't think my vote would even matter in any election given the chuds who moved here from Michigan, and New York have steadily turned our state solidly Republican. Maybe the Amendment initiatives could matter but, the governor and state legislature will find ways to enforce the laws that will render them ineffectual.

Not... not really. I guess, if you feel that you HAVE to do something, ANYTHING, maybe that could be a point in itself. But "Nothing's Gonna Change" Biden isn't going to make enough things better or slow down things getting worse to matter.

no, Joseph Biden is a dangerous communist.