Left-Wing Group Too Disorganized For FBI Agents To Infiltrate

"he’d already aroused suspicion by interrupting a meandering discussion of principles with a straightforward plan of action."

I feel seen.

a) Organizations and Conferences
Insist on doing everything through “channels.” Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.
Make “speeches.” Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your “points” by long anecdotes and accounts of personal experiences. Never hesitate to make a few appropriate “patriotic” comments.
When possible, refer all matters to committees, for “further study and consideration.” Attempt to make the committees as large as possible—never less than five.
Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible.
Haggle over precise wordings of communications, minutes, resolutions.
Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision.
Advocate “caution.” Be “reasonable” and urge your fellow-conferees to be “reasonable” and avoid haste which might result in embarrassments or difficulties later on.
Be worried about the propriety of any decision—raise the question of whether such action as is contemplated lies within the jurisdiction of the group or whether it might conflict with the policy of some higher echelon.-
OSS Guide to Simple Sabatoge
- The best part is by publishing this far and wide, anybody pushing for “careful consideration” and actual reasoned planning is immediately suspect, which leads to less reasoned decisions, which usually means more mistakes. If a victory is somehow won through violence of action and not careful planning, the support structure isn’t there to maintain the victory, nor are the people who win that victory well-suited to careful planning before the next engagement. The boring stuff is often what wins wars, simple things like plenty of fuel, adequate hygiene facilities, and dry socks can literally mean the difference between a division surrendering or winning a battle.
- TIL that the OSS completely undermined the global business culture.
  Those bastards!!!
- It's a great read
- Wow, that's literally what Maxim Katz in Opposition Council did

these people already all fucking hate each other. They spend all their time arguing about minutiae

Oh shit, The Onion has clearly infiltrated a few leftist groups in their time. That's fucking hilarious.

Left-wing groups: disorganized

Right-wing groups: incredibly bad at opsec

Yet it still ends up as:
Left-wing groups: Beaten and arrested by police for peacefully protesting.
Right-wing groups: Attempt to overthrow democracy, get off scot-free.
- get off scot-free
  Given how they are being systematically hunted down and sentenced to long prison sentences one after the other and from the bottom up, I don't think this is accurate.
- Buildings burn and people die when overthrow is attempted. Therefore that's exaggeration.
Can't have bad opsec if you don't have an op to sec.
- Well that's where the FBI comes in
Ineffectual versus incompetent.
Around here they are definitely the same picture

This is too funny and hits the mark. Groups like ANTIFA and BLM during the protests don't get to be traceable groups exactly because of alphabet agency interest. Behind the Bastards podcast talks about their opsec being deliberately lacking organization of a sort exactly because they knew getting a distributed and traceable hierarchy of leadership would get everyone arrested, the were actively being infiltrated by alphabet agency types. They went out of their way to operate in independent cells of which only a few members had a way to contact another member in a group, etc. so that there was no list of leaders and members to be found. Deliberate disorganization. The Onion nails it again.

The Harpers in the Forgotten Realms operate this way
It's known as a (part of a?) security culture. The least amount of information is required to operate, the better.
And yeah, BtB are great.
Anti-antifa police branch when 😂
- That’s just, like, a long long way to run, man.
Never listened to that podcast before. Any idea which episode that was?
- No, sorry. It’s been a year or three since I heard it, and I don’t remember if it was one of the It Could Happen Here episodes or a regular BtB one. You might have better luck than me searching for it. He primarily focused on the Portland protests.

This has already happened with things like Tsunami in Catalonia. A totally decentralised movement that the police is still trying to understand 6y later and trying to find a nonexistant leadership. Incredible fun to watch them trying to understand how it worked

I know this is the Onion but the left is inherently anti-authoritarian and advocate of horizontal structure of society with no top-down leadership. Of course we'd be disorganised 😂 Case in point, this and the hodge podge of left wingers in the Spanish Civil War ranging from communist, social democrats, democratic socialists to anarcho-syndicalists. Spanish leftists even attacked each other. The Democrats also don't even get along and this is why Republicans under Trump is gaining more headway.

I'm proud that we're maverick, but this also leads to our characteristic factionalism and thus easier to be disrupted and destroy.

No, it isn't, You're describing some forms of social libertarianism or rational anarchism, and calling them left. The philosophy i hear out of left identifying people these days is people desperate for lack of responsibility and wanting to be controlled by some parental government takes care of everything.
- Oops your bias leaked a little
- For American sensibilities born from classical liberal values, you're correct.
  The political "left" is a big umbrella term, like the "right" is. Generally speaking, the left broadly wants distribution of resources and management to be more horizontal. The debate is how to achieve that. Some want total worker control, others believe a democratically elected government should be empowered to distribute wealth equitably. The most extreme and dystopian form is a parental centralised authority enforcing equality should do it, as you mentioned.
  On the right, they may believe in personal freedom but still uphold that human society still thrives in hierarchy. "You're homeless? It is your fault and not my problem." Many on the right believe you have to work hard to achieve your goals but through your own blood, sweat and tears. You have to keep up or you will be out competed. Some on the right still believe that government still has some role to help others, while some disagree. The most extreme form on the right is fascism, which advocates for total control of everything and order and hierarchy are utmost importance.
- Its funny bc you have no clue what you're talking about.

"Antifa has no leadership so can't be marked as a domestic terror group."

Oh. Okay.

Believe me they tried, and every time they tried it failed miserably.

"We can get access to only so many parents' basements via the courts," the FBI lamented on Tuesday.

Oh shit this is the onion.

Which is basically irl news at this point, or at least less biased than mainstream media.
- And if it isn't, it will be irl news within a decade.

I swear I thought this was a NotTheOnion post. They are no longer more absurd than real news.

Same here. Sad but true.
For real. It hits way too close to the truth. The thing is, they can use as much power and as many tools as they want to try and infiltrate/destroy dissent, but they can never actually change the basic nature/desires of the human animal, so even when they've crushed all organized efforts to oppose their rule, resistance will still arise more and more frequently the farther they go in their attempts to consolidate power. Ultimately you invariably get what exists today: an epic cluster fuck of splinter groups and causes across the political spectrum.

They just need the right leader:

https://www.theonion.com/man-finally-put-in-charge-of-struggling-feminist-moveme-1819569515

I'm a member of a smallish leftwing party in my own country and having over 20 years professional experience in various industries and several countries it really riles me just how damn incompetent and disorganised they are - I mean, most have their hearts in the right place (even if they easilly succumb to serve their own petty emotional needs, like ego, rather than principles), but damn even how they go about fighting the problems in the country (pretty much 100% reactive) and the organisation and quality of the material in their campaigns is really frustratingly "amateur hour, every hour of they day, every day of the year".

Funnilly enough a leftwing part I was a member of in another country I lived in was also a lot "good intentions but very naive and a bit lost".

PS: Note that all this might be just the bias from never having been a member of a rightwing party. Maybe they're all just as bad and judging by professional standards the typical political party invariably leads to the conclusion they're pretty inept.

Meeting a new leftist who shares your values, knows their stuff and has amazing potential
Something sets them off and they start spouting neo-fascist propaganda about "tankies"
True story.

IIRC this has actually happened. Cops got little more than a map of who's blocking who, and gave up because there's just... there's just so much reading.

To be fair, the journey of a thousand miles does - or at least should - not begin with a single step, but rather with figuring out which direction to go in.

We all know the direction is left! No, no my left, not your left.
- Make sure to turn left at the... um... well you know the thing.
I want to add much more detail to my own reply, so here goes:
I recall a story that I read on the site-that-shall-not-be-named where this guy ran a business, and he tried to be part of the solution but after dealing with people's dumb-shitty-STUPIDNESS he just gave up. The issue is that due to capitalism, many pricing structures in the USA are enormously opaque with tons of hidden fees (like internet service for "$5" - plus also $100 in fees that they don't tell you about in advance). Rather than a price such as "$1.99 + tax", which depending on area could be I dunno lets say $2.17, he instead sold his wares (whatever they were) for "$2 flat". So not only did he single-handedly fix the opaqueness issue, at least in his own business, but he offered the item for LESS than the competition.
But... - can you spot where this is going? - people chose the $1.99 + tax option, b/c when you sort online by "price", 1.99 + tax shows up above the $2 flat price, even when the former is actually $2.17 after tax so the latter is significantly lower cost.
i.e., There are REASONS for why things are the way they are. And we ignore these at our peril. Case in point: Trump did not "win" in 2016 so much as Hillary Clinton lost. And now we are going to try the same experiment again in 2024... Trump vs. democracy. All they have to do is keep playing the Russian Roulette game - the odds are, after all, in their favor.
So back to this aforementioned business guy: he gave up. I think he went out of business entirely rather than just caving in to do the same pricing structures that everyone else did. He apparently could not both fight the system and win, so he lost both instead.
But that begs the question: if he had just "advertised" his "prices" as $1.82 (or whatever price would, when combined with taxes, even out to $2 flat) online, but then when people walk in the door there are signs saying like "just pay $2 flat", could he have succeeded? i.e., if he had flexed just a little, would it have saved his business? We will never know I suppose, nor am I advocating for caving in especially as it pertains to ethical matters - I have walked away from jobs rather than cave on such a line, so I mean it when I say that I am NOT suggesting to do so at all costs!!!!!
It is not enough to have a desire to save the world, or even your own little corner of it. THEY won't let you. I think that is why liberals fight amongst ourselves so much though: b/c while it is SO VERY EASY to fail, it is so very hard to get an answer correct. Like to the question of "what is 1+1=?", there are so MANY wrong answers, but only one CORRECT one. And even fewer when you factor in economic and other business necessities.
That is why I am super impressed with the job that Biden is doing. Walking that tightrope is HARD. But the media does not seem to report on half of the positive stuff that he does, so I fear that Trump will win this next election as a result. It is not enough to make the hard calls - you apparently also have to be the right kind of clown that drives clickbait engagement media stats that brings media corps higher profits too. All I know is that whatever comes next, we absolutely seem to deserve all of it, b/c we brought this on ourselves.
- That is why I am super impressed with the job that Biden is doing. Walking that tightrope is HARD.
  Is he walking that tightrope in Palestine?
- All I know is that whatever comes next, we absolutely seem to deserve all of it, b/c we brought this on ourselves.
  Speak for your fucking self. What the fuck did Palestine do to deserve this? Migrants? Trans kids? Women?

Security through obscurity!

If Lemmy is any indication, the FBI doesn't even need to infiltrate them, because US Nazis and Russian trolls already have.

Don't forget the Chinese trolls.

Gods trying to get my friends to think about pushing politicians leftward on the scale of 4/6/8 years pissed them off. They will only focus efforts on yelling at Biden to drop out as if it will happen or help. They don't care that no world exists where they are remotely happy in nov 2024, that's the only thing they can think about

This is where the old adage "Don't let perfect stand in the way of progress" applies.
Biden may not even be considered progress by some, but at least he's not a rapid sprint backwards into fascism.
- Yup
Part of the problem the left currently faces, regardless of revolutionary thought in general, is that environmental concerns are past the election cycle.
It is already too late to stop global warming at the 1.5 C target suggested in 2018.
Gradual reform will be too late. There is no way around it, we are acting too slow, and even if every country in the world flipped Green or whatever in 2028 that might still be too late.
- "Too late" is the exact language the fossil fuel execs want you to use. Even if specific targets are passed, every fraction of a degree matters. Stopping warming at 2 is better than 2.1 so if electing Biden puts us on the 2°c track thats better, and maybe the 2028 candidate can put us on the 1.8°C track. Thats a difference worth fighting for
- At least some believe that it was already too late in 2014 and our estimates are lagging about a decade. Not sure I believe that, but if true, it's even more important to take action ASAP.

This is just real news

is that windows 7 💀

Hair-splitting circular firing squad.
Inflated with a deluded sense of enlightenment (aka narcissism), lacking a sense of proportion nor any intention of being practical and/or flexible, one cannot get their priorities straight, end up dying on some trivial hill skirmish among themselves, even as a savage, true threat marches into town virtually unopposed, goose-stepping all over main street.

EDIT: Reminds me of that Monty Python scene in "Life Of Brian", The Peoples' Front Of Judea, not to be confused with The Judean Peoples' Front, not to be confused with The Judean Popular Peoples' Front, etc.

Is this even satire? It's true

Basmanny Court: the Reality or the Onion

Show me the lie

doing something violent to the communal spaces in their community

That seems counterproductive, let’s do something violent to the fash spaces in our community.