Alright folks I don't want this to be a struggle session so let's operate from "'stupid' and 'dumb' are ableist terms, now what?" I would like people to offer up alternative insults/negative remarks.

Pretty sure we've already done this, and the outcome was that we're still using both those words, which I'm personally fine with tbh. You have to draw a line somewhere.

That said, if you're not comfortable with using them "clown/clownish" is a good substitute as no one was ever born a clown.

"Stupid" is not ableist in etymology. "Stupid" was never a medical terminology like ableist terms, the r-slur as example was a medical terminology. "Stupid" comes from latin, "stupidus", which means to be struck senseless with astonishment. "Stupid" is the base word of "stupefied", which means a temporary state of mental numbness from shock.

To say that "stupid" is ableist is overcorrective. "Stupid" does not describe a disability. Anyone can be "stupid". "Stupid" describes a person who is in a state of confusion from being surprised.

I think "stupid" and "dumb" fall into a category where they're ableist in etymology but in use they are just a common way to say bad or without sense. A lot of derogatory words have that effect, but they create a problem by associating a group of people with being bad (I'm thinking of the homophobic use of the term "gay" in particular). In this case, I think that's rarely the case, I think they've basically shed their associations.

I do sometimes try to avoid them. I'll try to remember what I say instead:

• doesn't make sense
• Silly
• is a bad idea
• I'm not a fan of [X]
• Absurd
• Ridiculous
• [A more specific criticism]
• sucks
• Liberal

I teach 2cd grade so take this w some salt, but Silly Billy has been pretty damning and effective.

Whatever you do don't fall into the trap of inventing your own ones in the fly like "fuckscribble", makes you seem like a certified dandycorn.

Regardless of those two terms being harmful, it’s good to use more incisive terms that point toward the problems with their thinking or attitudes.

Incurious, small-minded, duped, bereft of imagination, ill-informed, whatever. If it’s framed as a specific thing that someone is being rather than something they are intrinsically, maybe there’s a chance that someone listening identifies that in themselves and sees a chance to get better.

Or maybe this is just an excuse to have more fun with words, iunno

I've pretty much eliminated those terms from my vocabulary, but it should be acknowledged that it isn't easy.

there's "lib" of course, or dipshit or rube.

i try to remind myself that generally someone's ideology derives from their material interests, not some cognitive impairment, so calling someone stupid for thinking lib thoughts isn't very meaningful or useful. we're all subject to motivated reasoning, and motivated libs can be quite clever in their own way when devising post hoc rationalizations for supporting genocide or whatever else. our political opponents are not stupid, even when they allow their ideological convictions to lead them to incorrect conclusions. we can't really afford complacency and the patience to wait for capitalists to simply make enough mistakes that we win by default, because that won't happen. those terms aren't just ableist, they're self-defeating.

Hadn’t really thought about it, but words other than “stupid” or “dumb” make you sound more self-aware

Archaic, insipid, dull, tired, weak, backwards, incoherent are all much better

If you're trying to express that someone has bad ideas, mean-spirited, incoherent, backwards, small-minded, spineless and disingenuous all convey different aspects of "stupid"

Also since I am really fruity I have started post-ironically calling straight people and their ideas 'gay as hell' which has thrown a lot of people for a loop in a way that has let me deescalate or reescalate on my own terrain.

I try to use "ridiculous" whenever I can. Or maybe just lay out what is irrational or illogical and let people conclude their own judgement on the thing

you can always call someone a dipshit

but as for pure adjectives idk

Do we have a word for "deliberately ignorant"? Is "rube" a slur?

Just call someone "bud"

I wanna bring up that people are still trying to find words for someone who is not intelligent. Intelligence being a single thing that can only increase or decrease is an inherently ableist concept. It’s pseudoscientific and has been used to justify mass murder and sterilization among other things. The fact that it’s such a widespread idea that almost everyone believes is irrelevant to the fact that it’s ableist and incorrect.

silly, fool, ignorant, closed-minded.

it's still ableist but I really like fuckwit

I think the problem is that people try to replace one ableist word which can be used in a ton of circumstances with a drop in replacement. That will inevitably lead to more ableist language because the whole function of an insult like that is to associate the target with a Bad Type Of Person, which disparages both. Insults should be descriptive and pointed, which “stupid” never is.

The underlying thought process needs to change, not just the word.

My default nowadays is just calling people nerds.

I've gone the way of saying we're all whatever non ableist word one can invent for stupid in one way or another and we should instead look into ourselves as to what variety of Dumb we are and self identify with what suits our particular lackings. I'm not sure what should describe what yet, but I for one am an oaf but I'm for sure not a numbskull or a blockhead, a nimrod or an ignoramus, but some people are and that's cool. Then it's only an insult when you're called one of those things that isn't your lane.

i know i can probably get to the bottom of this with a simple google search, but does "moron" have some kind of shit origin or nah?

fool, fucker, fantasist

Related, in Welsh there's an insult - twmffat twp, it directly translates into English as idiot spout/funnel. Basically someone who is constantly chatting shit. Sometimes people'll shorten it to twmffat.

Is there an English equivalent I'm missing? Would directly calling someone a funnel have any emotional effect on 'em?

dipshit and fuckwit work

silly is good as well less harsh more dissmissive

All the suggestions here either can be interpreted as ableist or have roots in ableism. I think it shows how quickly the English language turns to prejudices. The only solution is being as specific as possible, but that is less 'insulting' and more 'criticising'

Why are insults necessary?

"What are you, a loaf of bread?"

"Fuck, you're like a boob with no nipple"

"Of all the dildos your mom could have used, she chose your dad and the rest of us suffer" I think this probably shares the same ableist implications though

"Limp carrot"

"Wet fart"

"Sharp as a butterknife"

Idk I’ve never figured it out. But I also use these words for emphasis and stuff so it’s pretty bad. “Mad” is probably the worst offender in my vocabulary though. I know it’s ableist but I can’t seem to let it go, it’s such a perfect word.