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Ukraine's defense industry says the fight against Russia has shown it that the West's approach to weapons is all wrong

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Ukraine's defense industry says the fight against Russia has shown it that the West's approach to weapons is all wrong

17 comments
  • This isn't some sort of new revelation. This is how great power wars work. Industrial capacity is all that matters. Who can keep producing ammo, fuel, and guns longer wins. The germans lost WW2 because they failed to secure soviet oil fields, and their factories got fire bombed so they couldnt fight back anymore. Not because the USSR, or US or UK had better tech.

    Ukrainians are just realizing theyre the suckers that the US is using to test out its weapons against Russia and that the US doesn't give a fuck if every Ukrainian dies in the process.

    • It's mostly funny to see that the west is just starting to realize this. The fact that this wasn't understood at the beginning of the war signals an utter collapse of capacity for doing any sort of analytical thinking in the west.

      • utter collapse of capacity for doing any sort of analytical thinking

        I think this was very clear from the beginning where Westoids made no effort whatsoever to try to understand Russia's motivation for invading Ukraine, other than "Putler bad", and that continues to this very day.

        During the Cold War immense resources were spent trying to understand the Soviets - what made them tick, what motivates them, for the purpose of avoiding nuclear holocaust. Now nobody in The Axis of Genocide seems to give a shit.

    • Going by WWII logistical documentation, the Nazis highest levels of military production was by the end of the war, because basically all the factories had been moved into massive underground complexes.

      The interesting thing about bombing and missiles is that machines like lathes and mills, especially the ones from the 1940's are actually incredibly difficult to destroy unless they are directly hit by a bomb or a missile. Most allied bombing did was completely destroy the building infrastructure, which forced periods of rapid reorganization as equipment was recovered.

      The Nazi problem was that they wasted much of their time and resources early on in the war after their initial victories in Poland and France investing in fortifications that they themselves had just proven to be ineffective, utilizing privatization and mass slave labor to run that initial war economy, which is incredibly inefficient, and that even with the increase in production, they couldn't come close to matching Soviet or U.S. levels of production, or even force reorganization of the major factories powering the war machine.

      If anything Allied bombing forced the Nazis to actually become centralized and efficient in their industrial war production, it was just too little, too late.

      • It's a given that in a prolonged war war production will be constantly increasing, but being forced to produce everything underground, in secure facilites, and to move many factories from where they were would seriously hamper that growth. It's not that bombing campaigns were ineffective it's just that production increased exponentially. So while bombings did decrease it the actual production numbers still went up overall. Of course the Nazi's made many other mistakes too, but the allies, and USSR wouldn't have continued their bombing campaigns, which are very expensive for them, if they were not seeing significant success. It's just that the numbers are weirdly presented. Think like this: Year 1, 100 factories, they build 50, 10 get bombed. Now they have 140. Year 2 140 factories, they build 50, 15 get bombed, Now they have 175.

        It looks like their production increased by almost double. Which could make you think bombing campaigns were ineffective. But without those bombing campaigns they'd be at 200.

  • Not if the purpose of the West's approach to weapons is to funnel gobs and gobs of money to the private defense contractors, which it is. Its purpose is not to be a successful war fighting apparatus.

  • Me when playing Master of Orion on Impossible and barely holding on until a stack of 32,000 small ships with gatling lasers just roll over my entire empire with a combined fleet of 4 or 5 huge ships.

    • People be like "Stellaris is full of horrible atrocities" but in MoO every planetary invasion is extermination and there are no soldiers in game just entire armed populations.

17 comments