Murdoch never saw it coming

It's a common mistake among conservatives that they believe everyone is as self-centered and greedy as they are
I've not become more conservative as I age because I'd kill myself before becoming that awful to people around me
- Not knocking your worthy efforts, but the vast majority of people don’t turn conservative because of ideological reasons, they do it because they want to keep what they acquired over their lives.
  The people don’t become conservative any more because everyone younger than 40 pretty has pretty much gotten the economic middle finger across the board, so people turn radical instead. If I have nothing to lose I don’t feel protective of the status quo.
  But the greedy fucks in charge around the world are so removed from the reality of life they cannot see past their bank account, and would rather concede to fascism to keep things going for a bit longer, than making the needed changes. For the lost generations and the planet itself.
  
  Well it's worth noting that teenage boys have started leaning a bit more to the right, likely in large part because of Andrew Tate and others in the manosphere, plus right-wing think-tanks like PragerU targeting schools and kids.
  Though it's not like the gap between conservative and liberal boys is that big, plus it's not uncommon to hear from men on the left say that they had a phase of watching Ben Shapiro debate compilations only to grow out of it, so it's not like this is the end of the world.
  Still, it's also true that Millennials and Gen X are getting fucked by boomers when it comes to money: Millennials only hold 3% of total US wealth, and that's a shockingly small sliver of what baby boomers had at their age
  I guess we can only hope that the latter is a stronger motivating factor than reactionary propaganda and efforts to curtail education that are coming from the right.
  
  What exactly are older people afraid of losing? It's not like even the farthest left politicians are in favor of doing anything more radical than raising taxes on people who are wealthier than the vast majority of boomers.
  
  Being protective of your good fortune at the expense of others is itself part of an ideology, so I don't see why you felt the need to contradict and condescend. A person who's not a piece of shit would have no business being a conservative, no matter how privileged they are.
  Now go argue with someone else because I'm getting big reddit energy from you, and it's making me anxious.
- To what extent do you think education has played a role in allowing kids to critically analyse these types of people. Because in my history classes, we learned about ways people influenced others in nefarious ways and I'm wondering if kids see the same common pattern and know when to avoid.
  Just a thought 🤷
  
  Oh, I definitely think it's played an important role. There's a reason the right wing regularly attacks education. Seems to be a global thing, too -- not just the US.
  Also just a thought, though!
- I’m conservative, I’m not American though.
  I wish there was a place we could talk about the issues we disagree on without assuming the other is PURE EVIL OMG HITLER HITLER NAZI!
  Or DIRTY PEDO COMMIE HATES WESTERN CIVILIZATION AND WANTS US TO ALL BE GULAGED LITERALLY STALIN STALIN STALIN!
  
  "I just wish there was a place I could talk about maintaining the structures that oppress billions but keep me feeling comfortable and superior without those who are negatively impacted telling me I'm a piece of shit"
  
  Its because for us in America there is nothing to argue for on conservatism that is appealing. Our democrats are center-right. What do we have to discuss between extremists and centrists of the same side? What companies should be bailed out first? Which lobbyist donate the fattest cheques? Its abysmal. So no, you won't find any citizens who want to discuss with conservatives same as you won't find many willing to discuss with the Taliban.
  
  Conervative: "please don't call me a nazi hear me out first"
  Normal people: "ok"
  Conservative: "sieg heil, gas the jews"
  Normal people: "you're a nazi"
  Conservative: "see you won't even listen"
  
  The issue is that you rely on fear to gain support. You can’t just say, “I’m opposed to illegal immigration, we need to police our borders better.” Many people are interested in regulated borders. But then many on your side make it clear hate is their motivator, playing the xenophobic line and saying shit like “because these sand n*$&ers are murderers, terrorists and rapists.” And those who aren’t saying shit like that are silent.
  I’m not interested in importing deeply conservative religious people to this country that are going to threaten the societal shift toward a secular society, especially at the specific time the SCOTUS is giving religions special privileges. But by no means do I need to cultivate hate in my heart or others, unless I’m a fuck.
  
  What's your definition of conservative, and what is it about conservatism that appeals to you?
  
  If you can't find a reasonable discussion about a question anywhere, then maybe the question you're asking isn't reasonable.
  
  What you're looking for is certainly not on this platform
  
  Oh poor you. Go fuck yourself with a rusty blade, asshole.
  
  You have a reasonable take. I’m sorry you’re going to get assaulted with messages. Lemmy’s a bit of a hive mind so just know you’re not unreasonable for wanting a space where discussion can be had without bad faith. Also a conservative by the way. I’m really much more moderate, but no one here would classify me as that since the scope is shifted

I see boomers posting “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” on FB all the time, and they genuinely, unironically think they were here >strong men create good times< instead of where they really were, here >good times create weak men<, and so now we are absolutely here >weak men create hard times< thanks to them.
They're just so close to seeing the point.
- I thought it was weak men make me hard
  
  13 year olds when they discover sex ed
  
  For me it's women with low standards.
- The actual baby boomers were the weak men created by the good times.
  The strong men created by hard times were their parents who fought in wwi and wwii
  My generation (millennial/gen x) is also weak.
  My children’s generation, unfortunately, might be the ones who grow to be strong, if we don’t turn around this disaster
- I know you're probably just joking on theme, but I still feel it's important to say that this "Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times" shit is quite literally conservative mythology. It's a line of reasoning made to justify the "necessity" of strongmen leaders (just one example) and, more often than not, starts a rabbit hole straight to fascism.
  All that said though, yeah, I agree, fuck those guys thinking they're so fuckin bad, when really they're just losers holding us back

Historically, people have become more conservative, not as they age, but as they become more financially secure, own their own home, and want to keep more of the fruits of their labour.
That's increasingly not happening, and we're not happy about it.
- and want to keep more of the fruits of their labour
  Most conservatives want to keep the fruits of other peoples labor.
  
  Exactly. If you went to school for 16 years to become a neurosurgeon, I have no problem with your $500k salary. But a $1mil+ salary because you started a fast food chain where the employees make minimum wage? That's slavery.
- "Fruits of their labor"
  Well, fruits of exploitation of the global south that made your labor worth so much more than theirs.

Boomers assuming people become conservative as a function of time as opposed to a function of "getting theirs". I have no evidence but it seems to be you're less likely to become conservative without having amassed some wealth to conserve…

People become more conservative as they gain wealth, not age.
- I gained wealth and only realized how bullshit and unfair it all is 🤷‍♀️
  
  Yeah, I should clarify that you have to gain wealth and also be an asshole.
- I tripled my income this year, I'm more of a socialist than ever.
  I want my taxes to go to something useful, instead of some dipshit's 34th bailout.
- Also negatively correlates with emotional intelligence

"You need to have a sense of ownership and responsibility for your community."
"So you're actually going to let me invest in the community and own things?"
"What? No! Jesus, no. I want you to feel responsible for my stuff and work to preserve a status quo that will never serve you."

100 years ago a big part of the young generation was socialist too. Look how much changed.
- This whole obsession with policing people's nationality came about because states were trying to clamp down on the massive amounts of working-class agitation that erupted across the world straight after WW1 - but all that history has essentially been scrubbed out from the "official" narratives.
- This. We have to be weary that the owning class will put "leftists" in front of us to "vote for" and then this political energy will go to waste. Or they will draft us, or change the voting age, or get KOSA to pass. Idk. We gotta keep dodging the wrenches and throwing our hammers back at them.
  
  What are you talking about? I think you missed my point
  
  I always find it funny how internet-commies talk about an inevitable revolution and "throwing hammers" when in reality all commies irl are basement dwelling teens with social anxiety. Otherwise you'd be normal

Doesn't matter if they "become socialist" if they still vote for the same 2 party system. Democrats will never allow America to become actually left-wing
- The 2 party system doesn't change until voting changes. First-past-the-post voting actively encourages 2 dominant parties. Ranked choice voting isn't perfect, but it's definitely better than FTTP and it has the most momentum in the US right now.
  
  Yeah RCV sounds like the way forward. I was hoping some states would adopt PR but unfortunately that is blocked by the Uniform Congressional Districts Act.
- Voting is not capable of fixing our system.
  
  If you adopted PR and suddenly had more political parties, it seems to me that a lot of the current problems in US politics would go away
- Agree, but here’s what they don’t want you to know!
  Not every thing posted here has to do with America. The world has other countries don’t you know?
  
  "Murdoch never saw it coming" and the use of the word "boomers" clearly imply that this meme is in reference to America but sure
- The US isn't the only country in the world
  
  Looks at maps of the US
  "I don't understand"

In the UK we have something called the "Shy Tory Factor", where opinion polls almost always favour the left, because people will tell people (including pollsters) that they voted for one party, but then voted in a way they view they will be judged against.
IIRC it's also noted in US politics, and IMO it's highly likely that in certain areas you'll find many people that will say all the right things in public, but secretly prefer Trump over Biden, regardless of what either party stands for.
- God this is a depressing thought. We have enough people here who ARE already publicly vocal for the likes of our far right. To think that there are posers is kinda as terrifying as it is believable.

Even as a perfectly self centered capitalist I would still pick more socialism. System has not bought my loyalty, so why should I care about it?

- Not sure where you live, but millennials and Gen z generally have more liberal views than conservative ones in the US, as far as I'm aware. Here's a couple links to Pew Research Center, first is a number of statistics regarding political stances between generations (doesn't include gen z) and the second is specifically about how Gen Z compares to older generations in political stances.
  https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/03/01/the-generation-gap-in-american-politics/
  https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/
- That’s because the ones that moved left also moved to the coastal cities.
- Where I live
  Where is that?
- That definitely doesn't match what I've seen, in Canada (both Sask and Ontario), nor what polls I've seen (eg, on topics like LGBT acceptance).
  Note that the alt right are often the loudest (at least on a per capita basis). I think this can skew perception on how common they are, since they are over represented in online comments and there's some kinds of online comments that are completely dominated by the right (to the degree where "don't read the comments" is a meme in leftist circles).
  Location definitely matters, too. Cities are way more accepting than rural or suburban areas. If you're in a rural or suburban area, you have my sympathy. I grew up in a rural area myself and it was awful. I think many people (myself included) are purposefully fleeing shittier areas. That means progesssives not only migrate from rural to cities, but also from shitty provinces/states to better ones.
  But even within the same cities, I've perceived younger people to get better over time. I'm pretty hopeful for gen Z, which seems better than my generation (millenials) were at the same age. I just wish we didn't have to wait so long for progressives to outnumber regressives.

Seeing youth orgs like TPUSA and YAF on college and high school campuses means that we might have to start playing at their own game and not just take kids becoming socialist as default.

The very young do not always do as they are told

What if they were socialists, would I become a conservative just to spite them? I am honestly not 100% certain. I very well may be just that shallow.
- Immoral reactionary and proud of it?

- It's not happening as much at the moment. That tends to happen as people buy houses, have family and feel comfortable. All of that is happening less for the younger generations than those that came before them so they aren't going as conservative as they age
- Bro I'm thriving in this society and am as left as they come. Whole bunch of stupid ass games that are easy to play when the circumstances favor you. They're entirely unfair and inequitable.
  Winning at this shit game is nothing to be proud of.

as a child(trust me bro) i can say im not socialist

It's gonna be hilarious watching you guys serve under the boot when all your money comes from the government that controls you. Enjoy!