10mo ago

Holocaust revisionism is running through the mainstream of the MAGA movement

www.msnbc.com

Opinion | Tucker Carlson exposed the darkest truth about the MAGA right

There is no denying that white supremacy is an engine of the right.

There are some Republican voters who are sympathetic to their party’s ultranationalist turnand don’t believe the party’s attitudes toward issues such as immigration and crime are the products of racial animus. But over and over again, right-wing leaders and thinkers reveal that white supremacism is an engine of this movement.

The latest example comes via an episode of “The Tucker Carlson Show” released this week, in which the former Fox News host interviews podcast host and newsletter writer Darryl Cooper. Carlson, arguably the most influential right-wing nationalist commentator in America, said Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States.” But Cooper has made clear that his intellectual project regarding World War II includes Holocaust revisionism.

73 comments

It is truly insane to me that the one party in this country has moved into straight-up holocaust denial, but the only thing that will get you labeled an antisemite by either party is suggesting we politely ask Israel to do a little less genocide with the weapons we give them.
- I also love the fact that saying we shouldn't allow one semitic group to eradicate another semitic group with our tax payer dollars, makes you antisemitic.
  
  Careful buddy, if you keep talking like that, AIPAC is going to give hundreds of thousands of dollars to a Nazi-apologist to take your job.
- To be fair both parties are currently engaged in genocide denial.
  
  Well, you're not wrong.
- You know it is possible that both you and they are antisemitic?
  A made up political spectrum doesn't make it impossible for you to fall for the same politics of hate that they've fallen for.
  Many in the pro-Palestinian movement have lost a sense of good judgment thinking their emotions justify anything they say or do. Others in the movement look the other way when this happens.
  Take a good look at this Tucker Carlson drama unfolding. This is how most people see the pro-Palestinian movement right now. Rationalizing antisemitic shit. Does this help Palestinians? Nope. But that movement is going in a bad direction, and it's starting to be more focused on hating Israel (and Jews in general) than on actually helping Palestinians. A lot of similarities to the MAGA movement, which claims to be about helping the middle class, but in actual practice is more about hating people. Right now the MAGAs are hating on the same people that people in the pro-Palestinian movement hate.
  Many in the pro-Palestinian movement today will become the MAGAs of the future. Antisemitism is a hard thing to shake and has a tendency to take over all other thoughts by people infected with it.
  
  I'm curious to know what I've said that's antisemitic. From where I'm standing, there's only one comment here that's antisemitic. It's the one that's equating criticism of the nation of Israel for its ongoing slaughter of Palestinians with criticism of the Jewish people as a whole. All Jews are not Israeli's, and criticism of Israel is not criticism of the Jewish people. Implying otherwise is a bigoted and cowardly attempt to shield a nation from accountability.
  Every nation can and should be held accountable when it commits atrocities. If I were to condemn the Taliban for their misogynistic, regressive theocracy, no one would assume that I was condemning Islam as a religion or Muslims as a people. So, how can I do the same for Israel? Tell me the right way I get to say, "Israel has killed at least 40,000 people (probably closer to 85,000 in reality), mostly civilians, and it is disgusting that both major parties support this slaughter." Let me know what way I can criticize Israel that doesn't offend your delicate sensibilities, so we can finally discuss the fact that our nation is funding a genocide.
  
  This is a horrible ad hominem attack and actively fuels racism.
  Wanting Israel to stop its genocide is a good thing. Antisemitism is a bad thing.
  If you insist on equating the two, antisemitism will stop being a bad thing. That would be bad.
A holocaust/genocide studies professor once told me there were two categories of holocaust deniers, and while the former were fools, the latter truly scared him:
“It didn’t happen.”
“It wasn’t a holocaust because they didn’t finish the job.”
This is veering into #2 territory when you view these deaths as some sort of portion that had “overcrowding.”
- #2 is what defenders of Israel are saying today too
  
  Don't know why you're being down voted. "It can't be a genocide there are still Palestinians living in Gaza" is literally a line being used by commenters.
You let in the Nazis, you're gonna get Nazi ideology
- You can have a little nazi ideology, as a treat ... no, wait, shit!
  Lemmy try another:
  \ Do you want Nazis? Because thats how you get Nazis!
  Yeah, there we go.
Alright, so stay with here....
Cooper also framed the slaughter of millions of people, most of them Jewish, as a logistical failure
The article is spreading Holocaust misinformation too. Most of the victims of the Holocaust were not Jewish.
6 million out of 17 million isn't a majority.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims
It's fucking infuriating that so many people keep repeating that bullshit. People legit believe it, it's what we're taught in schools even. But it's just propaganda so kids grow up more likely to excuse Israel's current genocides.
- I was taught that it was the largest specific group targeted not that it was the majority.
  
  And in this case it's fine for the author to simplify. Because the specifics of the Holocaust isn't the article focus. It's about current day people denying it happened at all and their political affiliation.
  
  Same, but it's the framing of the number that they're calling into question. As if to force people to say "only 6 million of the 17 million," or, "if they're lying about this, what else are they lying about?"
  Truly devious and truly maniacal.
  
  From the linked table, the largest specific group is Soviets.
- Holocaust victims were people targeted by the government of Nazi Germany based on their ethnicity, religion, political beliefs, disability or sexual orientation For specified groups like the Jews, genocide was the Nazis' primary goal. According to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM), the Holocaust was "the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jewish men, women and children by the Nazi regime and its collaborators".[1]
  Including 7.8 million soviet civilians and POWs in the count kind of seems like a revisionist definition of what the holocaust was to include anyone killed in the war. To undermine how much focus was on the jews pre-war.
  
  To be fair, the Soviet citizens were targeted because of their ethnicity. Slavics were considered sub human like Jews.
  
  Then you'd have to also look at deaths before the war for every group...
  Like, you get that right?
  Do you just not know most of the death wasn't till Nazis understood they were likely going to lose the war?
  That's not a rhetorical question. To understand how to best explain this it helps if I know this is something you've thought about more than clicking on the Wikipedia link from a social media comment 2 minutes ago.
  Where do I need to start explaining stuff here?
- I've always heard the figure being 12 million total. I actually saw an older piece of material recently that mentioned the total as being 11 million.i agree that saying Jews were a majority is incorrect and misleading but I don't think it's intentional misinformation. It was the largest individual group.
  
  but I don’t think it’s intentional misinformation.
  Are you saying this one journalist who wrote the article wasn't intentionally spreading it as propaganda this time?
  Cuz I could believe that, that's how 80 years of propaganda works.
  Unless you're as old as Joe Biden, it's been getting spread longer than we've been alive.
  But people genuinely believing it doesn't make it fucking better, sure as shit don't make it true.
  Look at all the shit trump supporters believe, sincerity of belief is not as important as the factual merit.
- So what is the total amount of soviets that were victims?
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims
The racism is just used to distract from the economic issues faced by the middle class, low information voters need to be educated about this.
The republican party is going to destroy America and then their rich will move overseas. You already have TX governors fucking off every time a weather event happens.
I did Nazi that coming
- Lazy but wholesome.
  
  That can be applied to pretty much everything I do.
Cooper also framed the slaughter of millions of people, most of them Jewish, as a logistical failure. Nazi leader Adolf Hitler, he said, entered Germany into “a war where they were completely unprepared to deal with the millions and millions of prisoners of war, of local political prisoners.”
“They went in with no plan for that and they just threw these people into camps,” he added. “And millions of people ended up dead there.”
Poor little nazis, kek.
That 'historian' is to be bullied from every college debate club.
- Also aside from the death camps the Nazis ran executions squads, just lining up and shooting all the villagers once they captured a village.
  There is absolutely no question about the Nazis intention of murdering people they thought to be inferior or inconvenient.
  
  Their initial approximations how it should go is to clear the Soviet Union from human pests and make germans settle there with slavic genetical garbage as mere servants if not pets allowed to live and reproduce in set margins.
  Such a great starting point to treat civilians right.
- Hell, not even the fucking Nazis themselves claimed that they weren't deliberately operating death camps. Here's Rudolf Höss, commandant of Auschwitz:
  Technically [it] wasn't so hard—it would not have been hard to exterminate even greater numbers.... The killing itself took the least time. You could dispose of 2,000 head in half an hour, but it was the burning that took all the time. The killing was easy; you didn't even need guards to drive them into the chambers; they just went in expecting to take showers and, instead of water, we turned on poison gas. The whole thing went very quickly.
  And here he is, after his trial, four days before his execution:
  My conscience compels me to make the following declaration. In the solitude of my prison cell, I have come to the bitter recognition that I have sinned gravely against humanity. As Commandant of Auschwitz, I was responsible for carrying out part of the cruel plans of the 'Third Reich' for human destruction. In so doing I have inflicted terrible wounds on humanity. I caused unspeakable suffering for the Polish people in particular. I am to pay for this with my life. May the Lord God forgive one day what I have done. I ask the Polish people for forgiveness. In Polish prisons I experienced for the first time what human kindness is. Despite all that has happened I have experienced humane treatment which I could never have expected, and which has deeply shamed me. May the facts which are now coming out about the horrible crimes against humanity make the repetition of such cruel acts impossible for all time.
  Doesn't really sound like the statement of a guy who was trying to claim it didn't fucking happen, or that it was anything but a deliberate crime against humanity.
They've been called Nazis so much, they have to downplay what the Nazis did (and what they'd like to do). They can't believe they're becoming monsters.
Again?????
Didn't think they'd bring this one back until they released their 'Greatest Shits' album.
Just when you think they can't get more racist
You're not a REAL JEW unless you vote for the Republicans Rewriting the Holocaust!
This is the same demographic with the Q-anon stuff not shocking. Reality and history isn't their thing.
We already getting another remaster of it?
\ Why? Haven't the bystanders suffered enough?
I guess the last one with space lasers was pretty wild with flashy CGI, but I can barely keep up with the ridiculous plot - now somehow Palestine is involved, and there is that cartoonishly evil dark Sith Sam thats puppetmastering it all, very directly and obviously, but nobody believes it. It's just so much bs one and can take.
Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
Please understand that I did significant work toward the preservation of witness accounts of the Holocaust myself and I know that it all happened from firsthand observation of the evidence.
I'm having a hard time understanding how it matters that Republicans are bad on the Holocaust when the Democrats are currently the ones funding and arming and abetting a genocide. This is whataboutism at its most vile. I don't want to read another word about revisionism while people in power NOW are allowing it to happen again on their watch. This is bullshit.
- when the Democrats are currently the ones funding and arming and abetting a genocide.
  This bit of 'both sides' is kinda neat. It looks at how much worse it would be under a republican dictatorship and then says the problem is Democrats.
  When you were preserving witness accounts, was that from your office in former Leningrad?
  
  Wow, you are a real [expletive removed]. I produced this movie for David Beckman in Cleveland, OH. Our goal was to preserve the accounts of people whom Steven Spielberg had missed in the community before they passed away because they were in their 90's.
  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3096952/
  I'm accusing the post of both-sidesism. I think we should violently oppose republicans. I think democrats are currently enabling a genocide.
  (edit: removed swears so mods don't upend the conversation)
- This comment is whataboutism.
- Can the two things not be true at once? Could it not possibly be the case that both parties are too far right, but one is so much more extreme that it is not only comfortable with the current narrative but going so far as to rewrite the past in order to support it?
  How is it now "whataboutism" to call out these talking heads for engaging in clear-as-day holocaust revisionism? Just because Democrats have the same garbage foreign policy? Is that not whataboutism in and of itself???
  
  Because Gaza is still happening. It doesn't matter what we remember if we don't actually stop the genocides. That's why we preserved that history, so it wouldn't happen again.
- Your anger should be directed at the military industrial complex.
  
  Trust me I have plenty to go around

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