1y ago

US submarine pulls into Guantanamo Bay a day after Russian warships arrive in Cuba

A U.S. Navy submarine has arrived in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in a show of force as a fleet of Russian warships gather for planned military exercises in the Caribbean.

U.S. Southern Command said the USS Helena, a nuclear-powered fast attack submarine, pulled into the waters near the U.S. base in Cuba on Thursday, just a day after a Russian frigate, a nuclear-powered submarine, an oil tanker and a rescue tug crossed into Havana Bay after drills in the Atlantic Ocean.

The stop is part of a “routine port visit” as the submarine travels through Southern Command’s region, it said in a social media post.

Other U.S. ships also have been tracking and monitoring the Russian drills, which Pentagon officials say do not represent a threat to the United States.

World News @lemmy.ml

nekandro @lemmy.ml

1y ago

US submarine pulls into Guantanamo Bay a day after Russian warships arrive in Cuba

apnews.com /article/russia-cuba-us-submarine-ukraine-bac0519f4fdbe30a5ef210447d50a671

news @hexbear.net

Rx_Hawk [he/him] @hexbear.net

1y ago

US submarine pulls into Guantanamo Bay a day after Russian warships arrive in Cuba

apnews.com /article/russia-cuba-us-submarine-ukraine-bac0519f4fdbe30a5ef210447d50a671

92 comments

The stop is part of a “routine port visit” as the submarine travels through Southern Command’s region, it said in a social media post.
"But please don't let that stop you from being terrified," says the news media.
- Terrified of what your ignorance? Russia has been sending nuclear-powered and nuclear-armed submarines off of the eastern and western seaboard for over 60 years. This is hardly anything new. Also, the cool thing about missiles that are intercontinental is that you can fire them for more than a continent away....
  
  This is hardly anything new.
  Yes, that was my point. I'm not sure why you thought my point was exactly the opposite.
IDK what the thinking is with this, but "let's frighten the US by sending 4 ships over nearby to them after losing 29 of our vessels in a war with a country 15 times smaller, that doesn't have a navy" seems like a non starter of an idea. Once people reach adolescence, this "I'm not touching you I'm not touching you, are you uncomfortable" crap just comes across as a highlight of how carefully you are adhering to the boundary you are walking up to so aggressive-looking-ly.
If that even is the thinking. IDK, maybe they are just doing exercises, and there's no particular intent behind it and the US press is writing a bunch about it just because it is notable that it's happening.
- Russian media: "The powerful and manly Russian Navy has sailed right up to the cowardly Amerikkka NATO degenerates, and they did nothing! They fear the might of Russia, just as their mercenaries in Ukraine fear it! All hail the T-14!"
  Etc, etc.
  
  Dude it's fuckin weird
  I watched some videos from one of those pro-Russian military Youtube channels, and the whole thing is two years worth of uninterrupted victory, steady forward progress, missions accomplished and disasters for Ukraine. And yet, there's no acknowledgement that if everything had gone as they said the Russian armed forces would have swept across Ukraine, on through Europe, and circled the globe 5 or 6 times by now, with how much progress they have made... but that in reality the eastern front line has in that time not gone anywhere.
  I think Russia is pretty good at creating believable bullshit (they are certainly good at influencing elections), but when faced with an actual problem that objectively exists in the real world, it just looks hilarious to see them attacking it for 2 years continuously by simply insisting with absolute passionate confidence that they are solving it better than anything you've ever seen, and they're on the verge of yet another great and crushing success, as everyone can see, just watch.
- If that even is the thinking. IDK, maybe they are just doing exercises, and there’s no particular intent behind it and the US press is writing a bunch about it just because it is notable that it’s happening.
  It's brinkmanship. the Russians are trying to invoke the cuban missile crisis. AFAIK, they're supply ships bringing stuff to Cuba; (but also "recruits" from Cuba.). But a large part of it is definitely meant to up the anty on all the "if you don't stop supplying weapons I'll use nukes" rhetoric.
  
  Trying to do brinksmanship only works if there is believability to the idea of you crossing the brink. Putin who doesn't want anyone to be allowed to sit near him, constantly asks his friend-countries if they've been hanging out with NATO behind his back, and managed to fuck up one war with one tiny country this badly with the whole weight of the biggest nation in the world behind the effort, is very different from Khrushchev overseeing the cold war and the development of the nuclear arsenal and directly challenging the Cuba blockade, banging his shoe on the podium at the UN and screaming "We will bury you!" Putin may view the threat that he will attack the US as believable, but I do not think that anyone in the US or Russian government considers it a strong possibility and like I said I think the "not touching you" game (if that is in fact what he's doing) just makes him look weaker to both parties TBH.
  (I hadn't even really considered the death sentence that is attacking the US with nukes as on the table for Russia; the nuclear option I was envisioning was attacking Ukraine and gambling that the rest of the world would be so against starting WW3 that they could get away with it.)
- IDK what the thinking is with this, but “let’s frighten the US by sending 4 ships over nearby to them after losing 29 other vessels in a war with a country 15 times smaller, that doesn’t have a navy”
  Ukraine does have a navy. It doesn't currently have any ships, just boats and USVs, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.
  
  Hm... I thought that the Ukrainian navy was pretty much fucked as a branch of service after the fall of Crimea -- most of the naval vessels captured by Russia, other countries talking about giving them some ships but not following through (or not yet), naval drones being piloted by members of the GUR instead of by someone affiliated with "Navy of Ukraine." I sort of put all that stuff in a category with airplanes being flown by the army of a country that doesn't have a dedicated air force -- like yes they have boats but they don't have a navy. IDK, I don't know the formal status and I could be wrong in my thinking; that was just how I was looking at it.
This is theater for the Russian and American public. Neither act is actually militarily provocative at all. The US knew when the Russians left port, followed them the whole way to Cuba, and knew there was nothing significant on board. The US waited a day to reveal its nearby attack sub and described its port call as routine, no provocation.
It's politically provocative only because Russia should stay the f out of America's curtilage. It's a third rate shithole country that gets respect only because it represents a culture that would have no quams about nuking a frew western cities in retaliation for hurt feelings, no quams about sending tens of millions of their kids to go die in war. They are respected the same way you respect a guy walking around in public yelling angrily to himself.
- I have no knowledge at all, but this is what makes the most sense to me. I don't have a high opinion of Russia's strategic military decisions (and the truth is I have no idea what this is about), but I know that countries have ships that travel around, it is normal, and I just can't imagine any country that is run by adults that would think that sending ships to Cuba in this way would be any kind of anything provocative or whatever.
  But I can easily believe that the US news media would see the words "Russian ships" and freak out and start writing all kinds of stories about it. I mean, people are clickin on it. Mission accomplished.
  
  The article was also pretty non-inflammatory in my opinion.
  They (governments) don't do it because it's taken as threatening, but more because it's not. It's a very specifically not belligerent way to push back on a country. "I can wander in here right up against your borders because your zone of exclusive control isn't as big as you claim".
  We do the same thing with China to push back on their claims that certain waterways belong to them. (Ours looks a little different since we routinely patrol shipping lanes, so a more overt ship but also more common to just see tooling around looming at would be pirates, so it's not the same message as if a Russian missile destroyer showed up off the Florida coast. We send that message with a carrier group.). By overtly and openly using a waterway we say "LOOK AT US JUST NORMALLY USING THIS PUBLIC ROUTE LIKE A NORMAL SHIP IN PUBLIC WOULD DO WHEN THEY WEREN'T VIOLATING CHINESE TERRITORIAL WATERS".
  We would rather other nations not send military vessels near the US mainland. Russia would rather not have a bunch of stuff happen that we regularly facilitate. So they discreetly give us the finger by doing the tamest version of what we don't want while still having a perfectly normal excuse.
  
  I think the only big thing to note is I don't think Russia sends ships elsewhere all that frequently. Their navy is a bit of a joke. It's still not provocative, but it is different.
  I'm assuming the us showed the sub as a signal saying "we were right there with you. Did you even detect us? You don't stand a chance, so don't start anything."
- I came back to this and I just wanna highlight that “stay the f out of America’s curtilage” is one of the most succinctly perfect phrasings I have seen on the internet for quite some time
- Cuban ~~Missile~~ Warship Crisis
That submarine was trailing the Russian ships the whole time, the Russian ships had no idea, and there are more submarines in the waters nearby. The whole purpose was to show the Russian ships that they are sitting ducks.
- Submarines, much like wolves, travel in packs.
  And the one you see always has friends nearby that you don't.
  
  Very much this. Unironically why we used to have a class of fast attack subs named after this, the Seawolf-class.
- Oh they knew there were subs in the water…they just didn’t know where. The officers at least know we could turn their whole little armada into starter reefs at any time, the fact that we sent a boat scheduled to be scrapped later this year to surface is an extra fuck you flex that has to be intentional. We’re just now phasing out boats from the 80’s and they can’t keep a fleet afloat in a landlocked sea.
- Yup.
and a rescue tug
Imagine having to send a tug boat everywhere with your navy. You know, just in case.
- It is pretty bold of Russia to only send one tug. What it the rescue tug needs a rescue tug?
- Imagine being assigned to the most reliable ship in your country's navy
- They still use ski ramps and diesel subs, I’d want a tug nearby too anytime I left sight of port. Still better than being in the army though, probably.
“We were following you ;)”
Americans wave to the Russians
I wouldn't worry. This is the bookkeeping of naval deterrence. Neither side expects to actually fire.
There is no comparison to the Cuban Missile Crisis, except that Cuba and the navies are somehow involved.
- I was wondering if Putin is using this as an excuse so he can secretly plant nukes in Cuba and Venezuela
  
  His MAD is about as strong as it needs to be. That wouldn't appreciably change the situation, so he probably wouldn't do it, and if he did the only issue would be a bit of proliferation.
  I'm guessing the primary motive to send their ship in the first place was to be seen sticking it to the West somehow, domestically. The West itself won't care.
I don’t think a dick waving contest is going to work out well for the blyats.
- The Americans are the evil ones in the Cuba situation
  
  You’re a fool to think that Cuba is anything more than a pawn for Russia. But you can ask the dead Cuban mercenaries’ families, if you’d like.
  Not that I approve of American policy toward Cuba, but that has fuck all to do with this dumbass development.
Is this Cold War II?
- Always has been.
  
  Electric Boogaloo.
Russian ships get embarrassingly damaged/sunk by Ukrainian drones/cruise missiles.
"Hey, Venezuela is fantastic this time of the year!" - Russian Navy
Maduro will be welcoming them with open arms and appreciates the attention from daddy Putin. Gotta prop his own autocracy somehow.
Wait, doesn’t the US like hate Cuba and everything?
Why does it sent submarines there but not fucking furniture and cars? Is it just russia of the west?
- The US sends Cuba a check to rent Guantanamo bay. Cuba doesn't cash it.
  I kinda suspect Cuba would prefer to evict the tenant but in this situation the one with the nuclear powered subs gets to set the terms.
- It's complicated
Funny games. The US probably has spies on the Russian ships. Russia may have a spy or two on the US sub. Neither side is remotely surprised by any of the public information on this.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
WASHINGTON (AP) — A U.S. Navy submarine has arrived in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in a show of force as a fleet of Russian warships gather for planned military exercises in the Caribbean.
U.S. Southern Command said the USS Helena, a nuclear-powered fast attack submarine, pulled into the waters near the U.S. base in Cuba on Thursday, just a day after a Russian frigate, a nuclear-powered submarine, an oil tanker and a rescue tug crossed into Havana Bay after drills in the Atlantic Ocean.
The stop is part of a “routine port visit” as the submarine travels through Southern Command’s region, it said in a social media post.
We’ve seen them do these type of port calls before,” Pentagon spokeswoman Sabrina Singh said Wednesday when asked about the Russian drills.
The drills are in international waters, and U.S. officials expect the Russian ships to remain in the region through the summer and possibly also stop in Venezuela.
In 2015, a reconnaissance and communications ship arrived unannounced in Havana a day before the start of discussions between U.S. and Cuban officials on the reopening of diplomatic relations.
The original article contains 350 words, the summary contains 185 words. Saved 47%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
That'll show'em.
Holy propaganda Batman!
Damn American imperialists!
Why does the US have a base in Guantanamo Bay, anyway? I thought the government of Cuba has protested it for literally half a century?
I guess it's for the same reason why the US embargo of Cuba has seen mass condemnation in the UN General Assembly for more than 30 years without result...
Might makes right?
- Why does the US have a base in Guantanamo Bay, anyway?
  Because of a 1903 lease agreement with no end date which the post-revolutionary government has not gone back on so far. They protest it, but they have yet to actually say the terms have changed. And they also have a backlog of U.S. money waiting for them when they wish to renegotiate. Don't underestimate the PR boost having a U.S. naval base on Cuban soil gives to the Cuban government the same way having North Korea and South Korea share a border is good propaganda for both countries.
  
  Um are you sure? Because everything I read says they don't want it but the US won't leave.
  
  I never understood how slavery could stand for so long... But I guess now I do?
  Nevermind that the embargo on Cuba limits the utility of US money.
  Edit: for a similar scenario, look at the conditions for Haitian "independence" from France. France forced Haiti to pay for the lost property (read: slaves) that were freed by independence, costing the Haitian economy something like 20 billion dollars of economic contribution... For daring to free slaves. But oh no my agreements!
  
  Nice way to twist the story with irrelevant technicalities (that I haven’t been able to verify. Cuba is pretty clear about wanting the US base gone).
  US would never give up Guantanamo Bay. Cuba has 0 negotiation advantages because they’re a small poor country whose economy is being crippled by US blokkades for decades.
  Edit: Apparently it wasn’t clear that by information I wasn’t being able to verify, I mean the claim that Cuba for some reason would want to have an occupying force on their land and therefore doesn’t want to renegotiate the treaty.
Just fucking sink them
- And that would be a good idea why?
  
  It would be a good idea if we could do it without the Russians knowing who did it..
- Just send the The USA Caribbean Jet-ski club at them... I've heard Russian ships kinda don't like jet-skis....
- What the submarine or the Russian ships?
  Either way that seems like an extraordinarily bad idea.
- In this case I would say no as Cuba needs a security guarantee against the us as they have no nuclear weapons to prevent a successful bay of pigs invasion.
  
  I don't see that working out at all well for the US. I don't think there's a lot of sympathy for the US against Cuba internationally, and even if invading Cuba would get lots of support internally, it would kind of be like a dog catching a car. Now that you have it, what are you going to do with it.
  Politically, the best thing America can do is leave them alone (at least as much as they do right now) until Cuba decides to change their stance, while restricting their access to weapons that could be a threat to America.

92 comments