Privacy @lemmy.ml gamedeviancy @discuss.tchncs.de 3 mo. ago

Standard notes: what about don’t put all your eggs in one basket rule?

If the owner of the standard notes will now be a proton, doesn't that contradict this principle? I have a proton email account but I don't want it linked to my standard notes account. I don't strongly trust companies that offer packaged services like google or Microsoft. I prefer to have one service from one company. I am afraid that now I will have to change where I save my notes. What do you guys think about this?

51 comments

Syncthing + your text editor (orgzly revived is great)
- I've been using orgzly for years and this is the first I've heard of revived. Looks promising.
  
  Same! I used orgzly for a good while, might have to get back to it.
- And there is orgzly for linux or something?
  
  You activated my trap card!
  
  It's entierly based on the excellent org-mode for Emacs.
  
  A simple text editor does the job on PC, I use kate (kde) but perhaps a markdown editor might be better.
- Zim
I've been self-hosting Standard Notes for a while, and if you think it's something you can pull off, I'd recommend it. Especially if you can get by without folders, (too many) fancy editors, or some of the extra cloud stuff they have been offering.

If you don't feel like self-hosting, there are other options too, like

The non-self-hostable but E2EE-encrypted and open-source Notesnook

The closed source but extensible Obsidian, which doesn't seem very interested in locking you into any tying

The somewhat clunky but powerful and open-source Joplin
- Maybe Logseq, too.
  
  +FOSS like Joplin and unlike Obsidian
  +plaintext markdown files like Obsidian and unlike Joplin's janky database
  -less feature-rich than obsidian
  -block-based instead of note-based, so a slight paradigm-shift is required
  
  You can add two spaces at the end of every line to manually trigger
  a line break
  
  I regret I'm probably never escaping Obsidian. For a closed-source piece of software it has such a beautiful ecosystem of themes and plugins. I love to use it for writing my blog articles, and the mostly strict adherence to the markdown spec, the HTML rendering and plugins that add support for Pandoc (and Zotero)...
  
  But by default I can't seem to get Logseq in that space, even if I really want to, where I only organise files based on metadata and folders.
  
  I just wish any of them had a native Android UI instead of a weird, janky mess that is Logseq and iOS clone in Obsidian.
  
  My biggest issue with Logsec is the CLA signing. I still use it but don't feel like contributing to it anymore
- I’ve been self-hosting Standard Notes for a while, and if you think it’s something you can pull off, I’d recommend it.
  
  Too bad it requires 2GB of RAM. Joplin is "perfect" but the UI is ugly.
- I know these apps but none of them is as good as standard notes in my opinion. Notesnook seems fine but I don't like fact that it is based in Pakistan. I used Joplin before buying a sub for standard notes so I know it.
  
  Currently I have also subscription on Crypt.ee for photos but there is also a notes app integrated. Maybe I'll start using it. Developer of cryptee was very active on reddit and he seems like a man who values privacy and security.
  
  But I hope that simply proton will not force the migration of standard notes accounts to proton accounts and for old users everything will be as before.
  
  Is there anything won't with the company itself being in Pakistan, if it's explicitly hosting your data in Germany? I'm not aware of any nation-level threat going on over there, and their client is open-source on all platforms, so I don't imagine there's much that would be compromised.
- What's the upside over self-hosted (and encrypted) Trilium, which is what I currently use? (I ask this not as a challenge, but out of curiosity.)
  
  From the looks of it, Trillium is halfway between Standard Notes and hosting your own wiki.
  
  If you're happy with Trillium, I'd say stick with it. It looks pretty good, TBH. Standard Notes is self-hostable more as an afterthought, which is to its detriment.
Average Joe wants an easy all-in-one solution. That's what Google, Apple and Microsoft offer. An ecosystem. If you want to fight that, you need to be able to offer that. So that's what Proton is doing.

Of course it's better to have it seperated. And the security and privacy nerds will likely keep doing that anyways. But Average Joe doesn't want to take a hassle and rather looses privacy than do that.

Issue is, things are only as secure as the least secure point. Average Joe using Google and Microsoft means your data also goes there when interacting. When Average Joe is swayed by a place that is privacy-friendly ánd convinient, it makes your weakest link also stronger.

Meanwhile, Average Joe is also more save then when he was using Google or Microsoft services. Even when he would be less save than if he had his stuff seperated.

It helps everyone.

With that in mind, I applaud it. But I won't use it. I use Proton for mail, Joplin for notes (encrypting them in Joplin and syncing with NextCloud), and my passwords are also elsewhere than ProtonPass.
If they treat it the way they do with Simplelogin, then you can choose to keep your accounts separate. Just the option to log in via your Proton account will be a future option if they end up including standard notes as a premium feature.
I've mentioned this issue a few times, then "But Proton has proven to be good! It's OK" is the usual response, that's when i remind them of how Google also used to be good. I don't really use a notes taking app, but in general after Google, the idea of "one login, a gazillion apps" is something i dislike in principle because even if the one central authority doesn't go evil, one login incident and you're locked out of everything you depend on.

Yeah, I'll continue using Protonmail but that's likely all I'll use from them and diversify on the rest.
Just create another account. What's the problem?
If the owner of the standard notes will now be a proton, doesn’t that contradict this principle?

There's no principle... Standard Notes was never about having an open solution or going against the big co. it was about creating something that could be monetized.

Let’s see what Proton does with this, but I personally believe they’ll just integrate it in Proton and further close things even more. The current subscription-based model, docker container and whatnot might disappear as well. Proton is a greedy company that doesn’t like interoperability and likes to add features designed in a way to keep people locked their Web UI and applications.

Standard Notes for self-hosting was already mostly dead due to the obnoxious subscription price, but it is a well designed App with good cross-platform support and I just wish the Joplin guy would take a clue on how to design UIs from them instead of whatever they’re doing now that is ugly and barely usable.
- Proton is a greedy company that doesn’t like interoperability and likes to add features designed in a way to keep people locked their Web UI and applications.
  
  That's nonsense. Proton has built everything around PGP and allows uploading public keys for users not using Proton Mail so that you can messaging them with Proton's PGP system automatically.
  
  https://proton.me/blog/openpgp-crypto-refresh
  
  There's 0 vendor lock in (in the entire Proton ecosystem) and there's tons of open sourced code.
  
  There's 0 vendor lock in (in the entire Proton ecosystem)
  
  What definition are you using for lock-in? Because I'm pretty sure the Proton ecosystem qualifies to some degree.
  
  There’s no vendor lock in until you realize your emails are essentially hostage of their apps and a bridge that may be shutdown at any point. If you can’t simply setup a regular email client then there’s vendor lock in, not even Microsoft does that.

You've viewed 51 comments.