'Writing is on the wall for spinning rust': IBM joins Pure Storage in claiming disk drives will go the way of the dodo in enterprises
IBM wants to replace HDDs with its FlashSystem C200 storage system
Wouldn't a HDD based system be like 1/10th the price? I don't know if HDDs are going away any time soon.
"in enterprises" oh lol
I'm about to build a home server with a lot of storage (relatively, around 6 or 8 times 12 TB as a ballpark), and I didn't even consider anything other than spinning drives so far.
My sample size of myself has had 1 drive fail in decades. It was a solid state drive. Thankfully it failed in a strangely intermittent way and I was able to recover the data. But still, it surprised me as one would assume solid state would be more reliable. That spinning rust has proven to be very reliable. But regardless I'm sure SSD will be/are better in every way.
I had a terrible experience through all my life with HDDs. Slow af, sector loss, corruption, OS corruption... I am traumatized. I got 8TB NvMe for less than $500... Since then I have not a single trouble (well except I n electric failure, BTRFS CoW tends to act weird and sometimes doesnt boot, you need manual intervention)
Probably at some point as prices per TB continue to come down. I don't know anyone buying a laptop with a HDD these days. Can't imagine being likely to buy one for a desktop ever again either. Still got a couple of old ones active (one is 11 years old) but I do plan to replace them with SSDs at some point.
But you don't need 32TB storage per drive in your laptop.
Then how will I fit my porn folder on it?
I don't know that sounds like a reasonable size for the new GTA.
Haven't they said that about magnetic tape as well?
Some 30 years ago?
Isn't magnetic tape still around? Isn't even IBM one of the major vendors?
Anyone who has said that doesn't know what they're talking about. Magnetic tape is unparalleled for long-term/archival storage.
This is completely different. For active storage, solid-state has been much better than spinning rust for a long time, it's just been drastically more expensive. What's being argued here is that it's not performant and while it might be more expensive initially, it's less expensive to run and maintain.
I doubt it. SSDs are subject to quantuum tunneling. This means if you don't power up an SSD once in 2-5 years, your data is gone. HDDs have no such qualms. So long as they still spin, there's your data and when they no longer do, you still have the heads inside.
So you have a use case that SSDs will never replace, cold data storage. I use them for my cold offsite back ups.
Nothing in this article is talking about cold storage. And if we are talking about cold storage, as others gave pointed out, HHDs are also not a great solution. LTO (magnetic tape) is the industry standard for a good reason!
Sorry dude, but bit rot is a very real thing on HDDs. They're magnetic media, which degrades over time. If you leave a disk cold for 2-5 years, there's a very good chance you'll get some bad sectors. SSDs aren't immune from bit rot, but that's not through quantum tunneling - not any more than your CPU is affected by it at least.
You're wrong. HDD need about as much frequently powering up as SSD, because the magnetization gets weaker.
I'll shed no tears, even as a NAS owner, once we get equivalent capacity SSD without ruining the bank :P
Considering the high prices for high density SSD chips...
Why are there no 3.5" SSDs with low density chips?
Not enough of a market
The industry answer is if you want that much volume of storage, get like 6 edsff or m.2 drives.
3.5 inch is a useful format for platters, but not particularly needed to hold nand chips. Meanwhile instead of having to gate all those chips behind a singular connector, you can have 6 connectors to drive performance. Again, less important for a platter based strategy which is unlikely to saturate even a single 12 gb link in most realistic access patterns, but ssds can keep up with 128gb with utterly random io.
Tiny drives means more flexibility. That storage product can go into nas, servers, desktops, the thinnest laptops and embedded applications, maybe wirh tweaked packaging and cooling solutions. A product designed for hosting that many ssd boards behind a single connector is not going to be trivial to modify for any other use case, bottleneck performance by having a single interface, and pretty guaranteed to cost more to manufacturer than selling the components as 6 drives.
No shit. All they have to do is finally grow the balls to build SSD's in the same form factor as the 3.5" drives everyone in enterprise is already using, and stuff those to the gills with flash chips.
"But that will cannibalize our artificially price inflated/capacity restricted M.2 sales if consumers get their hands on them!!!"
Yep, it sure will. I'll take ten, please.
Something like that could easily fill the oodles of existing bays that are currently filled with mechanical drives, both in the home user/small scale enthusiast side and existing rackmount stuff. But that'd be too easy.
Hate to break it to you, but the 3.5" form factor would absolutely not be cheaper than an equivalent bunch of E1.S or M.2 drives. The price is not inflated due to the form factor, it's driven primarily by the cost of the NAND chips, and you'd just need more of them to take advantage of bigger area. To take advantage of the thickness of the form factor, it would need to be a multi-board solution. Also, there'd be a thermal problem, since thermal characteristics of a 3.5" application are not designed with the thermal load of that much SSD.
Add to that that 3.5" are currently maybe 24gb SAS connectors at best, which means that such a hypothetical product would be severely crippled by the interconnect. Throughput wise, talking about over 30 fold slower in theory than an equivalent volume of E1.S drives. Which is bad enough, but SAS has a single relatively shallow queue while an NVME target has thousands of deep queues befitting NAND randam access behavior. So a product has to redesign to vaguely handle that sort of product, and if you do that, you might as well do EDSFF. No one would buy something more expensive than the equivalent capacity in E1.S drives that performs only as well as the SAS connector allows,
The EDSFF defined 4 general form factors, the E1.S which is roughly M.2 sized, and then E1.L, which is over a foot long and would be the absolute most data per cubic volume. And E3.S and E3.L, which wants to be more 2.5"-like. As far as I've seen, the market only really wants E1.S despite the bigger form factors, so I tihnk the market has shown that 3.5" wouldn't have takers.
there are plenty of enterprise u.2 and m.2 22110 on ebay
Hdds were a fad, I'm waiting for the return of tape drives. 500TB on a $20 cartridge and I can live with the 2 minute seek time.
Tapes are still sold in pretty high densities, don't have to wait!
It's not a real hard disk unless you can get it to walk across the server room anyway.
Tape drives are still definitely a thing.
If you exclude the introductory price of the drive and needing specialized software to read/write to it it's very affordable €/TB
Meanwhile Western Digital moves away from SSD production and back to HDDs for massive storage of AI and data lakes and such: https://www.techspot.com/news/107039-western-digital-exits-ssd-market-shifts-focus-hard.html
Yea but isn't that more because SanDisk is going to fully focus on that? Or what am I missing?
That SanDisk is it's own company now.
But I don't k ow if they are still a subsidiary or completely spun of WD.
Just replace then all with flash, along with bluray (or other optical storage) for archival.
So can someone make 3.5" SSDs then????
They can be made any size. Most SATA SSD are just a plastic housing around a board with some chips on it. The right question is when will we have a storage technology with the durability and reliability of spinning magnetized hard drive platters. The nand flash chips used in most SSD and m.2 are much more reliable than they were initially. But for long-term retention Etc. Are still off quite a good bit from traditional hard drives. Hard drives can sit for about 10 years generally before bit rot becomes a major concern. Nand flash is only a year or two iirc.
Longer if it has some kind of small power. I think I read that somewhere.
Given that there are already 32TB 2.5” SSDs, what does a 3.5” buy you that you couldn’t get with an adapter?
A big heat sink like they used to put on WD Raptor drives.
Build quality
Relevant video about the problems with high capacity ssds.
Fourty minutes? Yeah, no. How about an equivalent text that can be parsed in five?
I want them like my 8" floppies!
Spinning rust is a funny way of describing HDDs, but I immediately get it
My datacenter is 80% nvme at this point. Just naturally. It's crazy.
Nvme is terrible value for storage density. There is no reason to use it except when you need the speed and low latency.
There's a cost associated with making that determination and managing the storage tiering. When the NVME is only 3x more expensive per amount of data compared to HDD at scale, and "enough" storage for OS volume at the chepaest end where you can either have a good enough HDD or a good enough SDD at the same price, then OS volume just makes sense to be SSD.
In terms of "but 3x is pretty big gap", that's true and does drive storage subsystems, but as the saying has long been, disks are cheap, storage is expensive. So managing HDD/SDD is generally more expensive than the disk cost difference anyway.
BTW, NVME vs. non-NVME isn't the thing, it's NAND v. platter. You could have an NVME interfaced platters and it would be about the same as SAS interfaced platters or even SATA interfaced. NVME carried a price premium for a while mainly because of marketing stuff rather than technical costs. Nowadays NVME isn't too expensive. One could make an argument that number of PCIe lanes from the system seems expensive, but PCIe switches aren't really more expensive than SAS controllers, and CPUs have just so many innate PCIe lanes now.
Just like magnetic tape! Oh wait..