President Biden Announces Bold Plan to Reform the Supreme Court and Ensure No President Is Above the Law.
FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces Bold Plan to Reform the Supreme Court and Ensure No President Is Above the Law | The White House
This is huge
Is it? I am ready to believe it is, but i guess i was hoping headlines about passing the court
Vote but I think it would be absolutely brilliant if Biden uses the immunity to arrest and remove every single person trying to strip our country away. Lock up every last one, including any corrupt judges.
I think it would be absolutely brilliant if Biden uses the immunity to arrest and remove
He's not doing this and people need to stop wish-casting that he would in order to cope with the party's refusal to oppose Republican policy.
If Democrats follow that playbook it only legitimizes it, giving a future Republican administration the green light to do it as well.
The correct response is what we're seeing from Biden today. Put it down on paper and get it on record who really supports the rule of law
I’m still voting for Biden. He’s still my favorite write-in candidate for November. Make wish-casting great again. /s
If I understood the ruling correctly, that "immunity" is the supreme court saying the president is immune for "official acts" - and they get to decide what those are. This is not immunity for Biden, it's a fascist coup happening in slow motion.
Then grab the coup by the horns and put it down like diseased cattle.
it's a testament to how corrupt the court has gotten that just four years ago public sentiment was steadfastly against reforming the court.
And that's how much damage one lunatic republican can do when in office. Four more years of it without some kind of safety net in place will destroy the country as we know it. Thanks for ruining everything good republicans!
Think of this as a stress test, it point out the holes in the system now rather than later.
If you think the issue lies in one bombastic and opportunistic president, and not our deity-like elevation of these lifetime-appointed robed clerics who are the only ones we entrust to interpret the constitution as if they have some divine patriotism, then you have been oriented by the democratic party away from what would otherwise be discontentment with the political system, and instead against the republican party which, as it just so happens, makes you fall in line with the democratic party and their fundraising strategies. The democrats desperately want you to ignore the gaping insecurities, volatility, and exploitation in our political system and instead instill a fear of Republicans.
Trump merely saw how easy it'd be to capture our judicial system that was devised by 20 year old white slavers only 4 generations ago. He correctly identified how the Supreme law of the land is all based on a flimsy interpretation of the honor system: we appoint justices for life and basically just trust them to play nice for their entire tenure without provisions to deal with judicial capture. It's honestly a miracle we've gotten this far without more judges being captured.
It also seems to be a testament to how nothing (barring term-limits) is gonna be done. The previous laws and regulations were perfectly adequate until the supreme court ruled "uh-uh." There still seems to be a perceptual disconnect between those not playing fairly and the Democratic establishment.
I have doubts a constitutional amendment will pass, but hopefully there are other avenues to enact this plan.
The Supreme Court gave him an avenue, an official act by executive order. Remove 3 conservative justices reducing the Court to it’s original number of 6.
The Court's decision just removes criminal liability for the President for such official acts. It does not render them legal or proper.
Or, better yet, increase the number of justices to at least the number of circuits we have. I would say take that number and multiply it by three so that there are 3 from each that can form a small panel to deal with smaller issues and form a larger, randomly selected, 9-11 judge panel to deal with bigger issues. It would also dramatically limit the power any one justice holds. Mandate a strict code of ethics and disclosure and put in term limits.
Oh really? I'd now like to see you throughout historical events right before they happened, expressing your doubts as if you uniquely had them... "I don't know, guys..."
Yes, that's the point. Nobody has 100% faith that this is a rubber stamp, that's not the point.
First, the announcement itself from a sitting American president is historic and important, second, it keeps a hard focus on the corrupt conservative frauds and illegitimacy of this current court. Those are the victories, the actual congressional amendment (a process designed to be difficult in a process that demands consensus) is and always was the long shot that could happen.
Step 1) Executive order that appoints fake judges to the supreme Court, bypass Congress by ordering the executive branch to treat the judges as legitimate.
There is no step 2.
I don’t get the appointing of a new judge every two years for 18 years. Does that mean that the courts are gonna like fill up with a bunch of justices or is it just every two years you can replace an empty seat?
To expand on what AirBreather said, the new justices would have an 18 year term, replacing one every two years.
this is actually a reasonable solution I pushed a while back. Basically, it would keep the aspect of the court changing slowly (an intentional feature,) but it would still let it change. Further, each president gets two SCOTUS peeps at predictable times, removing the ability of the senate to play games and game the system. (or installing relatively young judges who will serve for forty+ years.)
I was pleasantly surprised to see him propose this too. I've heard a lot of people online throw around the idea. I'm glad it's getting more mainstream attention too.
Not to mention, this also ensures the court is keeping up with modern society. You won't have 80 year old judges using outdated interpretations
Once the lifetime appointees have been dealt with in whatever way, the Court will have nine members, each appointed one after the other with two years in between, with the next-most-senior member's term expiring every two years to keep the number stable at nine.
Once the lifetime appointees have been dealt with
This sounds specially more ominous now that the President is untouchable.
I’m curious to see how they plan to transition to that system. Force one of the current Justices out every two years? If so, which one? Or do they plan on just starting fresh? Then who gets ousted in two years? To be clear, I fully support this plan, I’m just curious how the transition will go if/when this passes.
How many justices do you think there will be if there’s a new one appointed each two years and they are term-limited to 18 years?
Nine
As I understood how this would work is the next appointment will be "term limited". After 18 years they would assume senior justice status. This will do two things. First, allow for someone new to be appointed. Second, ensure they don't run afoul of the lifetime appointment status.
Under the senior status, the most recent to leave the court can step in again as a sub after a death pending installation of a new "starter".
So in one way yes, there will be many more justices... But there will be a starting 9, and more in a pseudo retirement. This will be a long road to get there, as they need to wait for the first vacancy, and then the next, etc.
Would have been nice to add insider trading by anyone in government to this list
Add term limits for all government leadership and legislative positions, too. Go back to making Congress a volunteered position where they hold a regular job back at home.
Or any trading that isn't just a basic market tracker.
This has been a long time coming. here's hoping the US gives Kamala a blue Congress so we can enact these changes.
I'm a bit skeptical on the first bullet point: while I'm all for an amendment to the US constitution that spells out in detail the limits on presidential authority, it's still an amendment that has to get passed. That means that it needs a 2/3rds majority in both the House and the Senate, or it needs to be supported by 2/3rds of the state legislatures. I don't think there's any way in hell that Biden's going to be able to get that through while the prospect of Trump regaining the presidency is on the horizon. At the moment, 47% of the US Senate is Democrat, with 4% caucusing with the Democrats most of the time, 49% of the US House is Democrat, and 46% of State Governors are Democrat. While it's not 100% certain that all Republicans would vote along party lines, I'm reasonably certain that all Republicans would vote along party lines, which means a constitutional amendment is dead in the water.
Now, if Harris wins the presidency, there's a good chance that the Republicans would be willing to vote for an amendment to curtail presidential authority. But right now? Nuh uh. Not gonna happen. As for the other two bullet points, they're certainly more possible right now than a constitutional amendment, but still unlikely. Dems don't have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and I'm certain that the Republicans would filibuster the shit out of that. Even if that wasn't the case, there's no way it'd pass the House. Best case scenario, Harris wins, with a large majority in both houses, and is able to push some legislation along these lines through.
Edit: changed language from "ratified by 2/3rds of the states" to "supported by 2/3rds of the state legislatures".
All Biden needs to do is threaten to use his newfound powers to meddle in the red states’ crusade against lgbtq.
I mean, thanks to Obama, the president has the authority to kill any US citizen they deem as a threat. The ACLU brought a case against the government about that, but that case was dismissed on procedural grounds, so it's still constitutionally untested. But regardless of it being tested, there is precedent for it, thanks to Obama's murder of Anwar Al-Awlaqi. And since the precedent says that the murder by the executive branch of any US citizen it deems a threat is kosher, well that would fall pretty nicely under the heading of "official acts of office" that this latest supreme court case showed would be absolutely immune from prosecution.
So I guess the question is: does Biden feel like murdering a bunch of citizens?
Maybe he could change the rules of voting in congress from "Yea/Nay" to "Yes, harder daddy/No, don't fucking stop daddy" that's probably within the role of his office.
Can we just step back for a minute and look at the big picture here? We're at a point where passing an amendment that says "the president cannot commit crimes" is seen as something that has no chance in passing, because one party is dedicated to protecting a criminal. The founders would be ashamed of us.
I mean, no argument from me. The fact that the Supreme Court basically just ruled that the President can operate independently from the law, like a fucking king, would have every single one of those guys spinning in their graves fast enough to power a city. It's just the latest milestone in a decades-long quest by the Heritage Foundation to convert America's government into a Christian theocracy.
Iirc constitutional ammendments have to pass both congress AND the states. It's not an either or
Technically, it's an either / or process. It either needs 2/3rds of both houses, or 2/3rds of state legislatures have to call for a constitutional convention. You are right, however, in that after either hurdle is passed, it still needs to be ratified by 3/4 of the state legislatures in the union. That's where the equal rights amendment is now. It passed both houses, but has not yet met the 3/4 state legislature hurdle, so it's still in the pipeline 81 years after its proposal. Yay government!
Fun fact, it doesn't have to be an amendment - it can just be a normal law. The check on judiciary is if Congress and the President both say, " you got it wrong SCOTUS" and pass a law that specifically says things are different.
Now I'm basing that on my 9th grade civics knowledge which could be wrong... But I thought that's why there were pushes for contraceptive laws post gutting of abortion rights. Basically telling the high court, this is what we're doing now.
SCOTUS can simply rule the law unconstitutional...
Laws for contraceptive right are needed because SCOTUS ruled there weren't any laws saying it was a right, because they have the constitution backwards.
That's a bit trickier, though, because SCOTUS already ruled on this, which means that their fucked ruling is now precedent. So any future challenges to a law passed by congress would be interpreted with that precedent in mind. If the composition of the supreme court changes, they could reverse their earlier rulings, but it's much less certain of an outcome than if there was an amendment to the constitution guiding future decisions.
My understanding of the ruling is that, no, a law cannot do this. The ruling is mostly a separation of powers argument. Basically, if the president is not above the law then that means that Congress can override the Constitution by writing a law that, for example, makes the President's constitutional duties illegal. Therefore, the president is allowed to officially do anything he wants limited only by the Constitution.
Obligatory: this is not an endorsement of the ruling and IANAL. It's an awful ruling and terrible for the present and future of our country. It's a violation of primary ideals of democracy and it needs to be overturned ASAP.
You're 100% missing the power of a sitting president making this official statement in the first place. Further, then giving the House/Senate and the state governments a choice to publicly shot themselves in the feet, on the record, by opposing such a common sense approach to this obvious problem.
The goal isn't the amendment, it would be nice, but it's not the first/main victory here.
Presidents say shit all the time, though. Just saying that there is a major problem is newsworthy, but it's all worth a hill of beans if it doesn't lead to lasting changes. I believe that he was right in that an amendment will be the securest way to enumerate the boundaries of executive authority, as it will be much harder for the Supreme Court to fuck that up, but there is an extremely high bar to pass to get an amendment through. If he decides to go the legislation route instead, any new laws that are passed by Congress are potentially subject to being overturned by the courts.
As for the optics of Republicans opposing supreme court reform or curtailing of executive authority... meh. We all watched nearly every single Republican in the House vote to not impeach Donald Trump on two separate occasions, for incredibly stupid reasons, and most of those people won re-election. Relying on the public to make good decisions when faced with bald-faced congressional corruption is a losing proposition.
Ha. Good luck with that, seeing as it'll be the supreme court ruling on the constitutionality of any law that's passed. In short it'll take a constitutional amendment to do anything, and that's not happening in this political climate
He can kill them all and declare it an official act
"No one is above the law" seems a bit of circular with the fact that the law is what the Supreme Court says it is. Similarly, who would decide whether a Supreme Court judge violates the purported Code of Conduct?
I guess it would all come to the legislation branch, but even if the reform goes through, I'm afraid that the political division in the Congress would limit its effectiveness.
Similarly, who would decide whether a Supreme Court judge violates the purported Code of Conduct?
Congress could impeach them, but the bar is high and Republicans have proven they will vote for party over country multiple times.
I think the trick with the term limits is the way this also has teeth. My understanding of one way the term limits thing could work is by moving justices to a senior status... Still technically appointed (and for life) but just not in the starting lineup.
I would guess that if the above method is the approach, a binding ethics code could have as punishment moving a justice to senior status, effectively benching them.
Maybe Congress should legislate against Marbury v. Madison.
If it’s not an official executive order, it’s all bluster. Actions, not words.
When there’s another Republican president, this will be the least of our worries. The Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society have captured the courts. There are no judicial means to enact this. If it is challenged in court, it will lose. Waiting for Congress to act is hopium. Do it, then apologize for having to do the right thing.
You seem confused on what an executive order is (or you're not confused and are just saying this in bad faith). It's not just the president randomly saying I order this to happen like some kind of dictator. It's the executive laying out his/her interpretation of specifics on how a law should be implemented, a law already passed by congress. So unless congress has passed a law already, saying congress gives the executive the power to increase the size of the court on a whim, or decide to impose term limits on a whim (and they most certainly have not), then the power still rests with congress. Setting up and regulating the courts is a job expressly delegated to congress in the constitution. An executive order is meaningless here. What law would it derive its authority from? A congressional law might not even be enough for all of this, that's why part of the plan talks about a constitutional amendment.
And "No words" ?! How on earth are we supposed to build a concensus to do something, if in your opinion no one is allowed to even talk about it or express their support until it's already happened? You make no sense. The sitting president endorsing supreme court reform is a huge step. And Harris is endorsing it too. Now we just need enough members of congress to get on board, and that's how it could happen. Not talking about it because it can't happen this second doesn't make it any more likely to happen. Comments like yours if anything make it less likely, and discourage support for the people trying to actually get it done.
I'm tired of all these nonsensical, "why doesn't Biden just become dictator right now" comments. We're voting against Trump because we don't want a dictator.
”Mankind soon learn to make interested uses of every right and power which they possess, or may assume. The public money and public liberty, intended to have been deposited with three branches of magistracy, but found inadvertently to be in the hands of one only, will soon be discovered to be sources of wealth and dominion to those who hold them… They the assembly] should look forward to a time, and that not a distant one, when a corruption in this, as in the country from which we derive our origin, will have seized the heads of government, and be spread by them through the body of the people; when they will purchase the voices of the people, and make them pay the price. Human nature is the same on every side of the Atlantic, and will be alike influenced by the same causes. The time to guard against corruption and tyranny, is before they shall have gotten hold of us. It is better to keep the wolf out of the fold, than to trust to drawing his teeth and talons after he shall have entered.”
Thomas Jefferson
I understand the limits of Executive Orders, but the Supreme Court has overstepped its bounds. How can you reel in a branch of government that decides which laws will be enforced? Congress is feckless and stilted and captured by interests.
Pretending that America can litigate itself away from fascism is foolish. Republicans and the conservatives will not give up power willingly. It has to be taken.
If the Democrats, who claim to want to uphold the conventions of democracy, will not act dictatorially, the Republicans, with the help of the Supreme Court, surely will.
I know what I am saying seems extreme, because it is. We are experiencing turmoil because of unchecked power. If the Democrats do not ACT the republic will be lost, if it is not already too late.
What do you suppose the president has the power to do in this case?
It sets a reasonable bar for discussion, and makes a great case of you read it. Maybe that last part is the problem...
I read it. I am not looking forward to this proposal dying in a House of Representatives committee though; which it will.
Who would enforce the code of conduct on the supreme court would they have to be charged by a lower court? Or would it be congress or the president?
GOOD NEWS.
Let’s get this done.
Only Steven Seagul is
Alrighty then.
This whole “every two years” new justice thing is really bothering me. Did he say that or is the journalist taking liberties?
I wonder because that timing will fly straight out the window the minute someone retires early or dies. Does the next Justice get a shorter term? A longer one? Does the seat go empty for a time? Do we end up having cycles of presidencies that get to appoint 3 or 4 justices in one term?
Bah- this will keep me up tonight, I just know it.
Every 2 years the longest-standing justice would be replaced, if they have served at least 18 years. Since there are nine justices this means each will get an 18 year term exactly. Any early exits would just mean you skip the next cycle. That's how I'd imagine it anyway.
Not sure what the solution would be that is proposed by the legal experts but it seems to me that we already have a system for dealing with that for the office of the president in the form of vice presidents etc taking over if they die. Not that you should have to have an entire chain of people ready to take over for every SC justice but rather, if one dies or retires or whatever before their 18 years is up then a replacement can be appointed to finish the remainder of their term.
I don't even know why we need specific appointments for the seats. Just rotate judges from the lower courts through.
I imagine it will be the seat itself is reappointed on a fixed schedule, that would function most similarly to the Presidency or Congress. The replacement be more or less an “acting” Justice to finish the term.
I saw someone mentioned that if something happened and a seat was vacated early, one of the justices whose term had expired could be brought in to serve in that seat until it is filled with a new person at the next scheduled time. But that seems to mean that some other justice(s) more senior than the one who vacated might wind up serving more than the normal 18 years as they wouldn't be replaced until the next cycle.
As far as a president getting to appoint 3 justices in one term, we just had that with trump. IMO there really should be more than just 9 seats. A common suggestion is 13, one for each District.
I'm a 2A Loving Republican getting my Guns ready in case the Government gets TOO BIG and I HATE the idea of Term Limits. We need LIFETIME APPOINTMENTS in ALL Parts of the Government with NO WAY to recall or otherwise Punish people who are Corrupt!
I’m here for this satire. The random capitalization is what sets it off.
🥱
new favorite account 💖
If this doesn't pass, Biden should declare martial law until it does. He has the power, and he needs to use that power so that can lose that power. It needs to be dropped for future presidents, Democrat or Republican.
I don’t get the appointing of a new judge every two years for 18 years. Does that mean that the courts are gonna like fill up with a bunch of justices or is it just every two years you can replace an empty seat?
Still 9 justices. The justices would have an 18-year term limit, so one seat opens and is then filled every two years.
They'll just rule all this unconstitutional without more justices. Democrats are so useless.
I hope you're sitting down for this one because it's quite shocking; things ammend to the Constitution become a part of the constitution itself, and thus constitutional.
lol
Bro, they already ruled Trump a king which the constitution also says isn't possible. They don't care what it says.
What exactly would you like the Democrats to do? What's your grand plan? They have to work within the law, even though the SC is clearly not. You ever read Alan Moore's, The Killing Joke? We have to show them our way works. At least for now.
If the Democrats don’t win a landslide, this goes nowhere.
Vote!!!!
It’s not gonna happen, we need 2/3rds of states, but when republicans block it, it sends a clear message who the wannabe autocrats are.
eye-roll Need to stop pretending that Republicans are just being cutesy and cryptic, and recognize that large parts of the country fully endorse a fascist federal government.
Let them vote against it. Let them vote against all the popular ideas and see where that gets them.
There are still other options if this goes nowhere. If they have the numbers, they can impeach the sitting justices and/or pack the court with more.
Also, it's possible that if the republicans see a string of back-to-back democrat presidents, maybe presidential immunity would be less popular. Especially after trump finally kicks the bucket.
Of course none of this matters if the dems don't win in November.
As if the Republican party isn't already screaming that message loud and proud on the daily
As if America ever learns anything from "clear messages' that are in fact painfully clear and obvious.
In another thread someone suggested we resize the court first, as an incentive for Republican states to embrace regulation and pass the amendment. Still need the supermajority, but it’s a great carrot/stick approach to get the job done or at least leave us in a good spot for a while if they want to be stubborn.
Agreed! Them voting Against this is a MUCH clearer Message then them Literally saying You Won't Need To Vote Ever Again Because The Fix Will Be In!
Absolutely right but it does also make this a more concrete election issue. This sets up Harris clearly for reform and makes a strong argument against Trump's criminality and the corruption he spreads.
It won't happen even if the Dems do win in a landslide. There are always enough Manchins in the Senate to keep anything meaningful from actually getting passed.