May 13, 1985

The only surviving adult MOVE member, Ramona Africa, refused to testify in court and was charged and convicted on charges of riot and conspiracy; she served seven years in prison.

Jesus Christ! No criminal charges against police so let's imprison the sole surviving victim!

(She did get a handsome settlement years later, so there's that but holy hell man)

- *terrorists as labeled by the fucking mayor...
  We got goddamned Vote Quimby down here deciding who's a terrorist because they got warrants, trash, and a bullhorn being a public nuisance.
  Edit: -Terrorists armed with a... gas generator (commence pearl clutching)
  -what the actual fucking fuck did the Keystone Kops think would happen if they dropped explosives on the gas generator in hopes of "taking out the "rooftop bunker"" which was most likely the goddamned rooftop access. They had to know. And if the didn't, they were criminally stupid.
  -you mention that anyone picking up their banner today is (some derogatory term I forget). Can you really not see why someone would look to extremes when faced with systemic oppression?
  -and: 2A rights for everyone! "oh, only WASPy, good, christian tightey-whitey men, sorry - not you... When any minority holds a gun they're obviously criminals." and yes, I know there were warrants and shootouts in this case. But justice wasn't served.
Qualified fucking immunity
Yet another thing to go after the revolution.
- Don't need qualified immunity if there are no cops left.

The police obtained arrest warrants in 1985 charging four MOVE occupants with crimes including parole violations, contempt of court, illegal possession of firearms, and making terroristic threats. Mayor Wilson Goode and police commissioner Gregore J. Sambor classified MOVE as a terrorist organization. Police evacuated residents of the area from the neighborhood prior to their action. Residents were told that they would be able to return to their homes after a 24-hour period.

There was an armed standoff with police, who threw tear gas canisters at the building. The MOVE members fired at them, and a gunfight with semi-automatic and automatic firearms ensued for 90 minutes... At 2 p.m., Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed.

From a Pennsylvania State Police helicopter, Philadelphia Police Department proceeded to drop two 1.5-pound bombs (which the police referred to as "entry devices") made of Tovex, a dynamite substitute, combined with two pounds of FBI-supplied C-4, targeting a fortified, bunker-like cubicle on the roof of the house. The bombs exploded after 45 seconds, igniting the fuel of a gasoline-powered generator and setting the house on fire, which was left to burn. Officials later stated that this was to let the fire burn through the roof and destroy the "bunker", so police could then drop tear gas into the house and flush out the occupants.

30 minutes later, firefighters moved in to control the fire but there was gunfire and the firefighters and police were ordered back as the fire spread to neighboring houses down the street.

The only two MOVE survivors, Birdie Africa, who was 13 at the time, and Ramona Africa, both escaped the house. Police initially said that two men had also run out of the house at the same time and fired at them and that police had returned fire. Ramona Africa said that police fired at those trying to escape. Police said that MOVE members moved in and out of the house shooting at the police. The fire department later declared the fire under control at 11:47 p.m.

Seems reasonable
- Bombing a house in the middle of a residential area seems "reasonable"?
  A judge and jury found the police department used unnecessary excessive violence and violated constitutional protections against unlawful searches.
- Nah, police weren't adequately trained to handle something on this scale. Something had to be done, but not by police with satchel charges and an anti-tank machinegun.
- I'm constantly told the 2nd amendment exists for the express purpose of shooting cops. Are you saying the 2nd amendment is in the wrong here and that police should have access to weapons denied to ordinary people?
If that’s all true, then that adult and child from the cult who lived are lucky they lived after their cult had the gall to shoot at firefighters.
EDIT: added words
- You're assuming that both of them, including the 13-year old, fired at the firefighters?
- You believe that part?

Holy shit, I’d never heard about this.

That's hardly the only one that US public schooling completely avoids teaching about... Tulsa, OK, OK to TN before that, and Wyoming too... the despicably shameful list goes on
- but only the third (?) time that US citizens were subject to aerial bombardment … so, um … there’s that?
- We were taught about the Trail of Tears when I was a kid. Is it no longer taught? Wait, I got transferred to a private school in fifth grade. That might be where it came up.
- I don't think this event is in any way comparably to what happened in Tulsa.
Let the Fire Burn is a really good documentary on this event.
- Let the Fire Burn
  Added to my list of stuff to watch. Thanks!
The Greensboro massacre 1979

And racist think this kind of life destroying event generation after generations doesn't have a negative impact on a group of people. The fact that Black Americans have anything should be applauded. This is just one event, look up Oklahoma massacre, or our wide spread lynchings history. There are still to this day southern families that have body parts of black lynching victims because that's just what their ancestors did back in the day. Hunt down black people that didn't stay in line and mount a piece of their body over the mantel as a family heirloom.

TBF I think a cult compound in the middle of the city full of white people armed to the teeth who want to take down the government and keep missing their paroles wouldn't end well, either. This event was not in itself racism destroying generations, rather the result of.
- Excellent use of tautology

Okay but did you know that they were brown people? Checkmate liberals

I remember this craziness. Was insane and of course, it was all considered ok.

I remember this craziness.
I remember that craziness because as a young adult, I was working nearby and saw the smoke clouds.
...and of course, it was all considered ok.
I'm unaware of anyone at all those days who considered it 'all okay.' On the contrary, it put a kind of national spotlight on Philly police' brutality going back to the Rizzo days, and doubtless contributed to Rizzo never being mayor again. And I think even amongst the folks who believed the bombing was justified, a large segment had to admit that it obviously went very, very wrong.
All that said-- yeah, as a nation I'm not sure we learned a damn thing out of all that. The police certainly didn't appear to.
- In the SE USA where I was about to graduate from high school, in the local news it was presented as "inner city terrorists handled with appropriated force"
- a large segment had to admit that it obviously went very, very wrong.
  I’m just imagining the conversation it took for such a chuckle fucker to knock off that racket. Like ok imagine it’s your baby in the building. walking a person through each scenario as a painful exercise.
Militarization of the police has been a wild fucking ride over the last 40 years.
Acorn drops and some pimple-faced teenager with a badge goes on a shooting rampage. Then we're told he needs better training, so we spend another couple million dollars bringing in IDF officers to train local cops on effective use of Skunk spray
- by "wild fucking ride" i assume you mean criminal matter, since that's the only reasonable expectation for bullshit like this - that it's illegal
  fix your shit, america
- to be fair, they "extra training" seems to be learning Hitler quotes and killology(the idea that police killing people is a good thing)

Technically, they bombed a home. But it was a row home and they were too stupid to think about what happens when you set fire to a home connected to a bunch of others

and then they refused to let firefighters in
- The ones that were being shot at?
- Sure. Like I said, just being technical

Ok that's messed

Imagine being firebombed because you're a shit neighbor (this is what I understood after a glance on the wiki page about MOVE, the two times the police went after them, it began as complaints from neighbors)

There was an armed standoff with police,[8] who lobbed tear gas canisters at the building. The MOVE members fired at them in return, and a 90-minute gunfight ensued, in which one officer was bruised in the back by gunfire.[38] Police used more than ten thousand rounds of ammunition before Commissioner Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed

Fucking hell, 10k rounds? How?

You know, if you guys are just gonna label everyone who wants freedom terrorists, you've got a fucking problem there in the land of the ree

Don't forget to call the opposing groups of said terrorists "freedom fighters" (1986 newspaper)

Also Lemmy far-left people: It literally couldn't get any worse than Biden not decriminalizing weed as fast as I wanted him to. I don't see how letting Trump come to power would even make a difference.

Quite the strawman you built yourself there.
- I actually do think it's a fake viewpoint -- I don't think a lot of people on the left actually think this; I think that most of the "far left" people on Lemmy who are saying it are propaganda trolls trying to depress the vote on the left in the upcoming election. But I've definitely had people say exactly this to me.
  Maybe I should have made it clear that I'm not attacking actual "far left" people with my statement, yes; that's fair.
Because decriminalising weed takes 50 people working non stop for 4 years.
- It actually does take a lot more than one person.
  Pardoning federal prisoners, Biden can do all on his own, and already did. (Didn't do all that much because more people are in state prison for state charges. But, if you're one of those people who's now out of prison, it's pretty significant I think.)
  Rescheduling marijuana takes agreement from the DEA, who aren't exactly weed-radicals, and the value of doing it is a little limited in the first place. He requested to reschedule it years ago and they've been dragging their feet on it for whatever reason up until very very recently.
  A bill for decriminalization is where the real significant change can come. There were a couple of them that came along, of which probably the most serious effort was a bill for full legalization. It passed the house, but there was a little bit of Democratic opposition when it reached the senate, and of course all the Republicans voted against it, so it failed. So, quite literally, 50 people would have been needed in order to pass it, but we couldn't get the 50 together, which is why it's still federally illegal.