Donald Trump has a big problem ahead
Donald Trump has a big problem ahead
Donald Trump has a big problem ahead
A whole swath of GOP voters appears firmly committed to not voting for Trump in November.
Donald Trump has a problem no matter what happens in New Hampshire on Tuesday night: There’s a whole swath of the Republican electorate and a good chunk of independents who appear firmly committed to not voting for him in November if he becomes the nominee.
It’s an issue that became starkly apparent in polling ahead of the Iowa caucuses, when an NBC News/Des Moines Register/Mediacom poll of voters in that state found that fully 43 percent of Nikki Haley supporters said they would back President Joe Biden over Trump. And it’s a dynamic that has been on vivid display as the campaign shifted this week to New Hampshire.
“I can’t vote for Trump. He’s a crook. He’s too corrupt,” said Scott Simeone, 64, an independent voter from Amherst, who backed Trump in 2016 and 2020. “I voted for him, and I didn’t realize he’s as corrupt as he is.”
"I can't morally support the lesser of 2 evils"
Yes you can. Not voting/third party voting helps the Republican party. This is a mathematical fact. Every single person who doesn't vote for Joe Biden and could is supporting Donald Trump. If you're an eligible voter you can only influence the election in one of two directions. There is no "sitting out" option. It does not exist. Not voting does not remove your influence on the results, it simply lessens the impact.
Biden is not my first choice by any means, but this is the reality of the situation. If you think it could be fixed by electing Republicans to power I would be very interested in hearing how the fuck that would work.
Not voting is ultimately voting for whoever wins the election.
Exactly. Spread this message far and wide! While our voting system needs reform and "first past the post" is less democratic than ranked choice and other methods, Donald Trump is an existential threat to our country and needs to be stopped now. Vote. That's our current system! Then we can tackle voting reform, but you can be damn sure that will be impossible under a 2nd Trump presidency. But I know people hate hearing that things take time or can't be done right away...
Oh good, it's this argument again. I've really never heard a statement that is more damaging to a conversation with an intent to sway votership than this one.
A vote for candidate C is not a vote for candidate B, but for the sake of the argument let's assume it is. It's possible to model an election using game theory, and it can be done in a few different ways. First I'm going to try is a 1 dimensional approach from the perspective of candidate A. A vote for candidate A is worth 1 point. A vote for candidate B is worth -1 point. A vote for any other candidate is worth 0 points. This is actually a fairly accurate model of how a winner takes all election system works. I'll also play it from candidate B's perspective to illustrate something.
There are 300 votes for candidate A There are 340 votes for candidate B There are 20 votes for candidate C from constituents who claim to be from party A There are 60 votes for candidate C from constituents who claim to be from party b
Candidate A: -40 Candidate B: 40
Interestingly, people who voted for candidate C do not show up in the final results at all and they hurt/helped each candidate equally. The only people whose votes actually had any real bearing on the election in this model were the people who turned out to vote for candidates A and B. I'll let people draw their own conclusions from this thought experiment.
The real argument to make here however is that Biden is not the lesser of two evils and has in fact done a lot of good for the country in his term, or at least attempted to. The more important thing then voting for Biden is that people show up with an intent to put as many good senators and representatives in office as possible each election until we can get enough people in office to allow them presidential agenda to actually be able to do anything. Also to vote in your local elections for similar reasons.
The only goal for anyone who values what little democracy we have left is that Donald Trump does not get reelected. Period.
The only vote that helps that goal is for Biden.
There's nothing to debate here, unless you're an accelerationist. And in that case I'd just like to remind folks that revolution is brutal, not fun and exciting.
Yeah and when the Republicans have a president they use trucks to run over peaceful protests, among other things.
That stance only works if the foundations of the government are strong enough to ensure an eventual return to the status quo. We used to be able to safely assume that the pendulum would always swing back.
However we have learned that our foundations are not quite as stable as we all thought. We have learned that it's based on a series of "gentleman agreements" that can just be ignored with no repurcussion.
And the next time the conservatives get to the white house -- at least under the current political climate -- it just might be the spark that launches the US into full-blown fascism. And we're not coming back from that.
When things are less bad people complain less?
False, If it is a mathematical fact prove it.
Also false. You are relying on the faulty assumption that there either candidate is entitled to your vote.
False. You are not forced to vote for anyone.
I agree with your overall point, but could you make your point without spouting blatantly false information that is just the party line?
In what world does : Not voting = voting for someone else.
We operate in a first past the post voting system. This means you vote for a single candidate and the candidate with the most votes wins the election. A non-vote or 3rd party vote mathematically benefits the minority party by decreasing the number of votes needed to win. The minority party in our electorate is the Republican party.
Nothing is false about what I said, you just don't like it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the party line. If I had my choice Biden wouldn't be the nomination. No candidate is entitled to your vote, but your influence will affect the race whether you want it to or not.
You need to take into account that instead of not voting, you could have voted for the other candidate.
Simple example:
7 voters, 2 candidates, A and B. 3 will vote for A no matter what, 4 oppose A. If 1 voter doesn’t vote, there will be a tie of 3-3. If 2 don’t vote, A will win 3-2. If everyone votes, B will win 4-3.
Holy shit this guy is dense af.