2y ago

Pope approves blessings for same-sex couples if the rituals don't resemble marriage

Pope Francis has formally approved allowing priests to bless same-sex couples, with a new document explaining a radical change in Vatican policy by insisting that people seeking God’s love and mercy shouldn’t be subject to “an exhaustive moral analysis” to receive it.

The document from the Vatican’s doctrine office, released Monday, elaborates on a letter Francis sent to two conservative cardinals that was published in October. In that preliminary response, Francis suggested such blessings could be offered under some circumstances if they didn’t confuse the ritual with the sacrament of marriage.

The new document repeats that rationale and elaborates on it, reaffirming that marriage is a lifelong sacrament between a man and a woman. And it stresses that blessings should not be conferred at the same time as a civil union, using set rituals or even with the clothing and gestures that belong in a wedding.

But it says requests for such blessings should not be denied full stop. It offers an extensive definition of the term “blessing” in Scripture to insist that people seeking a transcendent relationship with God and looking for his love and mercy should not be subject to “an exhaustive moral analysis” as a precondition for receiving it.

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stopthatgirl7 @kbin.social

2y ago

Pope says priests can bless same-sex unions, requests should not be subject to moral analysis

apnews.com /article/vatican-lgbtq-pope-bfa5b71fa79055626e362936e739d1d8

99 comments

"You can have our blessing but only during events that don't even resemble that thing you want to be more equivalent legally to hetero couples."
This just kind of seems disingenious. Like what is he saying? You either condone their marriages or you don't.
- It's not disingenious. By the official scriptures, a religious marriage is between a man and a woman. A change like the current one needs already to be accepted by the highest cardinals, that have been in history notoriously fundamentalist.
  A religious marriage is still not allowed. But the receiving of an "informal" blessing for future happiness and prosperity now is.
  This is a necessary step to slowly allow more, that will come with the slow redefining and adaptation to modern times of the scriptures.
  
  people don't know about Vatican 2 where they finally change mass from Latin to whatever the local language was in FUCKING 1962. I've been to Latin masses. I thought it was cool, but I'm glad they switched. My grandpa complained the church went pop with Vatican 2.
  
  adaptation to modern times of the scriptures
  The scriptures don't adapt, only their interpretation.
  
  I don't know if you're a Catholic or not, I just want to say more generally - I don't see how any Catholic, including the pope, has the right to opine on the finer points of official scriptures while priests are raping children and the church covers it up.
- For this to work you have to take on a catholic perspective. For them a marriage isn’t just a legal affirmation of partnership with tax advantages, it is a clearly defined sacrament that is explicitly for a man and a woman. They can’t just change that, it’s a defined fundamental element of the religion.
  This radical change in doctrine (from a catholic perspective) is basically them trying to work around the fixed framework that has no room for interpretation, while still wanting to be more accepting. So they create a second marriage for non heterosexual couples.
  As an atheist I must say this seems like a significant step. The church still has numerous flaws and isn’t for me, but I definitely commend this olive branch.
  
  I guess I'm just cynical or something because they need to makeup a new special hang out because the old one is only for people with specific genitals. Its just weird man, that the apparent source of all love would lock it with barbed wire.
- more equivalent legally
  This is a straw man. The pope's decision is about a religious issue, not a legal issue.
  
  Except married couples get legal benefits that actually matter in reality that same-sex couples don't get. So its not a strawman. It is shit that actually happens to real people.
- South Park covered this by calling them Butt Buddies
Slippery Slope! What's next, being respectful and accepting of people who aren't hurting us??
- That doesn't sound Christian to me.
This is a PR move, don't fall for it.
Quotes from the man himself, on how much he actually supports marriage equality and LGBTQ peolle:
"I cannot hide my concern for the family, which is threatened, perhaps as never before, from within and without. Fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family. I can only reiterate the importance and, above all, the richness and the beauty of family life."
"What is at stake here is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother, and children. At stake are the lives of so many children who will be discriminated against in advance, depriving them of the human maturation that God wanted to be given with a father and a mother."
"[Marriage equality] is not a political struggle; it is the destructive attempt toward God’s plan."
"”[The push for marriage equality is] the envy of the Devil, by which sin entered the world, which cunningly seeks to destroy the image of God."
Don't fall for their lies.
- Yep - this is just derogatory and demeaning, underlining the exclusion in order to make it hurt more.
  If anyone doesn't see it - just replace 'same-sex' with 'black'.
  Fine, we'll let you in the building, but only in the basement, and you don't touch anything the white folk might want to use.
Sky daddy says it’s cool as long as it doesn’t look like one of Sky-Daddy-Approved™️ shows
- Don't worry, officer. I'm not buying poppers and bongs, I'm buying videotape head cleaner and water pipes. Totally different.
Church: since gay people should properly be seeking God's mercy, we will now choose not to subject the gays to an exhaustive moral analysis, (that anyway if performed, would of course find them lacking). With that in mind, please feel free to approach your priest and request his blessing!
What a fucking insult.
- They're so close to getting it. All they needed to say was "None of us are born without sin, and it is no person's position to judge and condemn others. Thus, we will marry any two individuals who show the same enduring love for each other as our lord and savior --"
  Etc etc.
  
  I see what you mean, but I disagree that this is a misfire or miscalculation on the church's part. This latest development reads as another jab at gay people, from a familiar angle. It's a reaffirmation by the church that same sex couples who love each other aren't seen as equals in a congregation.
If this isn't the definition of "too little too late", I don't know what is.
- 📉
  
  I, the loud proud atheist, have literally been to a religious services more the past year (a memorial service, relative of my wife) than the typical American adult.
  The world is getting better in a few ways.
- For many Italians it's too much and too early 🤣 Maybe they will turn to more conservative confessions like orthodoxy, who knows...
Awaiting U.S. Bishops to refuse to allow this.
Instead of being referred to as “married” you can be butt buddies!
"Sorry man, you can't get married but good luck.
P.S; you're going to hell"
Okay, whatever.
Let's say I create a club (I'm picturing Calvin's "Girl Haters" club). I can make whatever rules I want for my club. I can define ceremonies and rituals, and I can kick anyone out who doesn't follow my rules. What I can't do is tell anyone else what they can do.
So the Pope can say whatever he wants about what it means to be Catholic, but only Catholics should care.
- I'd agree with you but for the fact that the Catholic Church has historically spent a ton of money lobbying to keep same-sex marriage illegal.
  The Catholic Church is very much a political institution.
  It would be nice if we didn't have to pay attention to regressive extremists, but they are unfortunately very influential.
  
  Oh, completely agree. My statement was just trying to constrain how much we should care as a society. It shouldn't mean more than that.
- I get where you're coming from. At the same time, they are such a large club that this will impact many people....some members of the club hold political positions around the world, for instance.
  
  Yep, true enough. The first part I don't care to much about - if your club has rules you don't like, leave the club. The second part is problematic because some clubs think even non-members should follow their rules.
Sounds like the Pope needs to mind his own fucking business.
How generous.
Archbishop Handwich is now offering blessings for the low, low price of $9.95. Act now and get free chips and pickle!
- I mean, indulgences were a large part about why Martin Luther split from the church to begin with.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
ROME (AP) — Pope Francis has formally approved allowing priests to bless same-sex couples, with a new document explaining a radical change in Vatican policy by insisting that people seeking God’s love and mercy shouldn’t be subject to “an exhaustive moral analysis” to receive it.
The document from the Vatican’s doctrine office, released Monday, elaborates on a letter Francis sent to two conservative cardinals that was published in October.
In that preliminary response, Francis suggested such blessings could be offered under some circumstances if they didn’t confuse the ritual with the sacrament of marriage.
It offers an extensive definition of the term “blessing” in Scripture to insist that people seeking a transcendent relationship with God and looking for his love and mercy should not be subject to “an exhaustive moral analysis” as a precondition for receiving it.
“The request for a blessing, thus, expresses and nurtures openness to the transcendence, mercy, and closeness to God in a thousand concrete circumstances of life, which is no small thing in the world in which we live.”
In the new document, the Vatican said the church must shy away from “doctrinal or disciplinary schemes, especially when they lead to a narcissistic and authoritarian elitism whereby instead of evangelizing, one analyzes and classifies others, and instead of opening the door to grace, one exhausts his or her energies in inspecting and verifying.”
The original article contains 478 words, the summary contains 228 words. Saved 52%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Fuck that guy.
Why does anyone give a shit what's "recognized" by the church. They're nothing. It's equally as important as the opinion of a tick.
I love this shit. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they stick to dogma they become irrelevant, if they water their rules down to “allow” same-sex couples they appear hypocritical, and irrelevant. Either way they lose, which is better all round for society.

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