21h ago

Democratic lawmakers say they'll travel to El Salvador to push for Kilmar Abrego Garcia's release

www.nbcnews.com

Democratic lawmakers led by Sen. Chris Van Hollen say they are willing to go to El Salvador to seek the release of a man who the Justice Department says it mistakenly deported there — a plan that has gained steam after the country's president said during a visit to the White House that he would not send the man back to the U.S.

46 comments

While they're at it bring back the others and give them proper due process in US courts.

Absolutely a good idea. Republicans have a very weak hold in Congress and keeping this visible will spook them.

A meaningless gesture that acknowledges that it's OK for everybody else to be there.
Everybody involved in putting people in prison without proper procedure is a criminal.
This is a crime, the administration is decidedly criminal, and Americans are doing diddly, what a fucked up disgusting country!!!!! My blood boils reading at how insanely fascist USA has become.

This is weird but can we trust that the kidnapped guy is even still alive? The admin is super evasive about it.
- He may very well be dead. Regardless, I think we have to try; somebody’s father was literally sent to hell on earth without even being charged for a crime or seeing a judge. Trump has defiled this man’s “unalienable right” to due process. The fifth amendment to the constitution of the United States also specifies that this right belongs to each person and not citizen for this exact reason.
  This is probably the biggest constitutional crisis since the US Civil War. The foundations of the entire legal world sit upon established precedent, and Trump getting away with this would basically mean the Constitution and our laws are entirely up to the executive and therefore not worth the paper they’re printed on.
  We have no choice but to make this a complete PR disaster for Trump; Is he strong, or is he weak? If he is so strong, then why is a dictator of a tiny country able to tell him no? If Trump even had a shred of guilt or decency (he has neither) he would remind Bukele that a single aircraft carrier is all it would take to level everything he has.
  (Note: I am not saying we should launch a military invasion of El Salvador. I am merely pointing out how laughable it is that Trump says he can’t do anything. He is, as he has always been, a weak and pathetic man whose only extraordinary talent is lying without remorse.)
- At first I dismissed this idea as bullshit, but at this point, wouldn't it be so much fucking easier to just bring him back? There has to be some reason they aren't, and I sure don't believe the "they don't want to set a precedent" line floating around.
  
  I see three possible reasons:
  He's dead
  El Salvador and the US don't want anyone to speak about what's going on in the prison
  Trump wants to use this as a test. If he can get away with this, he can get away with sending most anyone.
  
  Idk for sure, just speculating, but I think they don't care about the actual individual. It's not about him.
  They're asserting power, defying the supreme court. It's that simple. This is authoritarianism. This is how it plays out.
  Again, speculation. They start with these types of acts, if they succeed their way, disobeying law gets normalized, and they can continue and do even worse.
  If I'm correct, checks and balances is falling, or has fallen. This is what authoritarianism looks like.
  
  I don't even know what would be "best" for Kilmar considering he came to America to flee gang violence in El Salvador so....
  On the one hand: It is very probable that they just don't have any records. And it is finding one guy based on a photo of him from a month or two back in a giant mass of "hispanic men". So it is going "block" by "block" to line everyone up and compare them to a photo. Keeping in mind that his appearance has likely changed due to having his head shaved, stress/terror and, likely, violence.
  And the other is that he is probably dead. Because he was thrown in a "maximum security" concentration camp with many of the gangs he fled from.
  
  wouldn't it be so much fucking easier to just bring him back?
  There's a reason he had fled to the US and was protected with asylum, and a reason that the US was not supposed to deport him back to El Salvador. He was probably dead as soon as he was sent back.
  
  Yeah like wouldn’t it just be best (from their perspective) to get it out of the news cycle, come up with better legal bullshit, and continue the concentration camp deportations in a month or so?
  I mean they’re talking about revoking the citizenship of prisoners and trying to naturalize the land in El Salvador so they won’t have to answer to anyone because it will be considered “domestic” transfer. They could just bring him back and then ship him back when they do that.

And do what? Without a least an operational detachment behind them they aren’t going to be able to do anything but grandstand in front of CECOT. Bukele already said he isn’t giving anyone back.
- That's the thing that a lot of people keep misunderstanding. If the President of the US wants a person back from what I am going to describe as "A lesser country," only for this exact moment, and not for any other case at all, he can get that person back. Send a battle group over, and ask politely.
  El Salvador does not have the ability to keep him, if we want him back.
  
  I feel it's even stupider than that. The 2 met in person yesterday in DC. I was ready for them to bring the guy back and make a big show about how magnanimous he is to bring him back just to please the people or something.
  But instead, Trump is all "well I couldn't possibly tell the great nation of El Salvador what to do," cameras pan over to Bukele, "uhhh, you want me to smuggle a guy into the US???"
  You clowns are literally right next to each other, acting like the other person isn't there. Bukele could say "hey, do you want the guy back?" and that would be that. But they just play a game with a guy's life and Steve Miller goes and says he wants to do the same with everybody that looks at him wrong.
  
  It's even simpler than that - the US is paying, actively, 20k USD per person at CECOT. The US is fully in control over that arrangement.
- Sometimes the spectacle is the point.
  
  Yeah, and giving people a visual will help make this more real for them. I doubt this one press conference is going to be our turning point, but it's at the very least a small step in the right direction and better than ignoring this.
  
  What spectacle? They're going to show up and look completely ineffectual.

Time to boycott El Salvador. Knit clothing seems to be their biggest export item.

I applaud their dedication and willingness to fight for what 's right, but are they sure that's such a good idea to travel there in person?
- Are you saying someone should warn a bunch of abject cowards off of following the only halfway courageous instinct they’re ever had?
  
  If they die messily, how long will it be before the next courageous instinct shows up?

Okay. Who's all going and when do you leave? Quit fucking talking and DO.
- It's weird how these things aren't set up as fast as on TV.
  
  You don't think they could be on a plane TODAY if they actually wanted to do something?
- Would love to. I'm too poor.

Can't wait for them to travel there and demand to see him, only to be told no. Then they'll shrug and say "Well, we've done all we can do."

Stay home and do congressional work instead. Make up new tiny signs

Y'all know that guy is dead right?

Hey, how about you do your job and impeach the motherfucker that is doing it? Maybe? Do your damn job? Perhaps?
- For impeachment, the voters are going to have to do their job removing the Republican majority.
- He's from the Senate. They hold the trial. Talk to the House for Impeachment. But good luck getting Johnson to allow that to come to the table.
- That's not how any of this works
- With what majority?
- Impeachment with no possibility of conviction isn't productive. His previous 2 aquittals just made him bolder.
  And if we make impeachment routine, they'll lose their meaning. We need to hold out for one that will stick, which probably means waiting until at least 2027. And that sucks. A lot.
  
  At least it'll be some red tape to slow things down. Red tape traditionally has kept a lot of crap from passing in the government.
- I agree this is what should be done, but the reality is this will not be done. This requires a majority in Congress to bring the charges and impeach, and then 2/3rds of the Senate to convict. Democrats would gleefully jump at the chance to do both, but they haven’t had that type of majority in generations. And we all know the GOP will never impeach, let alone remove, one of their own.
  The democrats are extremely limited in their institutional power right now. The only institution that stop Trump is Congress, and they’re in his pocket.

46 comments