Banned from 196 for thinking 'the tankie triad' is a silly name

lemmy.blahaj.zone /post/23064271/13346496

Hi all, thank you for reading my post. modlod link

In the 196 sub an OP was asking for advice on how to change their friends opinions which they disapprove of, because they were trying to warn them off of 'the tankie triad' and their friend didn't have any issues with what they were seeing and was in fact subscribed to a number of instance already.

Clocks got banned first after suggesting that the OP try to be a genuine friend and try to find some common cause in real life rather than alienating people over abstract geopolitical factionalism:

> The original post feels like bait, but here is an authentic response. --- Maybe genuinely be their friend instead of alienating them based on political flavoring. Perhaps you can be better working together to help others in your locality or communities than squandering over geopolitical matters. Swallow your frustrations, being annoyed is a part of being in a community. You can move on.

I raised the issue that censoring earnest advice as 'tankie apologia' and preemtively writing off any common cause/ isolating people is no way to win people over either as friends or comrades.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if 'genuinely be their friend' is 'tankie apologia' to be censored, I'm not sure you're going to be very successful convincing anyone of anything in the real world.

I then got banned for this one, for continuing to find 'the tankie triad' extremely silly:

yeah that's the context, I was just laughing because:
only Lemmy users with an axe to grind call them that
it sounds really silly, like they're a nemesis to dr venture.
I'm supposed to be the melodramatic one yet every day I get one-upped 😔

link

screenshot:

I'm not here to tell them how to run their comm, my position is that this is way more draconian than anything I've run into in any of 'the tankie triad'. The same groups of people loudly complaining about censorship on 'tankie' run instances don't seem to have a problem enforcing vague/arbitrary vibes based censorship in their spaces.

95 comments

For anyone wondering why we have such strict rules regarding tankies in our community, it's because they have a tendency to try to worm their way into leftist spaces. Tankies constantly try to convince everyone that they are leftists and that being opposed to working with them is "leftist infighting", yet they will defend nation states which oppress unions, commit genocides, or do straight up imperialism. All the same things that capitalist nations do. They either embrace these things or deny they happened, or explain that they were somehow necessary. Some are earnest in how they try to convince others, and some know their stances are not popular and try to be subtle.
Tankies are not leftists, and disagreeing with them is not arbitrary. Based on this we have decided to not platform them on 196. This is mentioned in the sidebar and anyone who does not like this is free to go elsewhere. Additionally, we usually give a warning if the infringing comments are not too bad. Both instances posted about here were instances where they were warned yet continued with their behavior.
Edit: We also don't mind tankies being active on 196, we only mind them defending tankies or proselytizing.
- If Marxists are not leftist, I do not know who is.
  
  I described authoritarians. Socialists, communists, and anarchists are not tankies unless they defend authoritarian regimes.
- Tankies are not leftists
  based on my observations so far pretty much everyone getting called 'tankie' on lemmy is a leftist, and many of the people most vocally opposed to 'tankies' on lemmy act a lot like crypto fascists.
  
  I for sure have seen liberals throwing that word around thinking commie and tankie are interchangeable. We however use the term correctly.
  My experience is that those that complain the loudest about this tend to be obvious tankies in their comment history. I've seen many be angry at how the word is used and then have posts on .ml where they proudly call themselves a tankie.
  Most of the people we ban are worse than you, and call ukrainians vermins, some deny the tiananmen square massacre, or make bogus claims about how communist the CCP or russia today is. They are almost always from .ml.
  .ml absolutely has a problem with tankies. That you continue to believe that most tankies are just leftists or that your stance on ukraine is not problematic makes it pretty clear who you are.

It was mostly for your comment defending the other poster, and for the axe grinding comment. That combined with your stance that ukraine should not defend itself against russian aggression in your comment history made your comments read as you defending tankies.
You were also warned prior to the ban yet continued to make comments in the same vein as before.
- I'm opposed to all inter-capitalist wars. Sounds like the real issue is that I have a nuanced take on Ukraine in my post history more so than any of the things I said in the thread.
  The advice on offer in that thread reeks of terminally online in a way that is extremely unlikely to accomplish anything productive in real life other than isolating yourself into increasingly small cliques.
  Maybe you should add "no dissent allowed" to the rules so it's more clear that it's a cj comm
  
  We already have a no authoritarian rule in the sidebar, so that won't be necessary
  
  I got “nuanced” and “terminally online”, now I just need ”reactionary” for my tankie bingo card.

I'm not here to tell them how to run their comm
And yet here you are. I took a brief look at their sidebar rules and it's pretty clear that you broke one or two of their rules. I don't think that's a power trip. That's moderation. The Tankie Triad are also very heavily moderated.
- I took a brief look at their sidebar rules and it’s pretty clear that you broke one or two of their rules.
  Is not taking the 'the tankie triad' fearmongering seriously breaking the rules? I'm pretty clearly opposed to all inter-capitalist wars
  the Tankie Triad are also very heavily moderated.
  whataboutism, also it's not nearly to this degree
  
  also it's not nearly to this degree
  Hilarious
  
  You can take whatever you want seriously or not seriously. It might get deleted depending on where you post it.

I think the mod is maybe too sensitive on this topic. I'd go with BPR since there seems to be more context missing.

A lot of communities outside the “tankie triad” kind of autoremove anything that looks slightly suspicious coming from a “tankie triad” instance. I understand your POV but I don’t think it really reflects poorly on the moderators. BPR.
- hmm maybe do you think that trans people could work together instead of being divided along ideological lines by liberals that at best use us for political points and do nothing substantial in our favor or at worst actively genocide us
  
  Perhaps they could if tankies weren't supporting countries that severely limit LGBT rights.

YDI. Leftist unity is bullshit tankies spout when they plan on murdering leftists as soon as we help them get into power. I wouldn’t expect any less from a .ML user though.
The absolute gall of you to come here, on an actually leftist instance, to complain we aren’t being nice enough to tankies.

YDI you went to a thread with a specific anti-tankie topic in a comm that is explicitly no tankies
- The definition of 'tankie' is pretty clearly arbitrary and vibes based. I'm an anarchist, I've organized with anarchists for years. Sorry if I don't pass some terminally online litmus test.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
  generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereo
  https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/tankie
  (politics, slang, derogatory, by extension) A supporter of policies and actions by the Soviet Union, China, Cuba or other authoritarian socialist (chiefly Marxist-Leninist) governments.

YDI.
Lemmy.blahaj.zone specifically is for trans folks. You're not going to make friends there defending authoritarianism, and it's part of their actual rules.
They also ban based on what your account does outside of their instance, and more than just this specific instance has you defending tankies (and it looks like, on cursory glance, you identify as one) so that would lead to a banning.
Don't worry though, there are a lot of folks banned from there who are sour about it who'll be along shortly to say PTB.
- Lemmy.blahaj.zone specifically is for trans folks.
  yes I know, I'm trans.
  it looks like, on cursory glance, you identify as one
  I'm an anarchist, I organize with anarchists, have done so for years. This level of dogmatism as 'anti-authoritarianism' I have only run into in a handful of online spaces.

PTB this mod has not even read their own sidebar!
Assume the best, but don’t tolerate sealioning/just asking questions/concern trolling.
Don’t rush mod actions. If a case doesn’t need to be handled right away, consider taking a short break before getting to it. This is to say, cool down and make room for feedback
Send users concise DMs about verdicts about them, such as bans etc, except in cases where it is clear we don’t want them at all, such as obvious transphobes. No need to notify someone they haven’t been banned of course.
Explain to a user why their behavior is problematic and how it is distressing others rather than engage with whatever they are saying. Ask them to avoid this in the future and send them packing if they do not comply.
First warn users, then temp ban them, then finally perma ban them when they break the rules or act inappropriately. Skip steps if necessary.
- The rules are pretty loose, I did get one DM, though this bit at the end opens up a lot of room for arbitrary/vibes based enforcement:
  Skip steps if necessary.
  I guess 'it was necessary'
  
  The DM I sent
  The guidelines are specifically called guidelines, not rules. I'm unsure what important steps you feel I skipped. We did not rush mod actions, f.ex. We had a chat about what to do in our mod chat.
  We sent a warning, but chose not to tell you about the ban, as we figured you were out for drama.
  We explained how you broke the rules and what not to do.
  We warned you first, then banned you. We always permaban tankies due to our no tolerance policy.
  
  It's right there in the sidebar:
  Proselytization, support, or defense of authoritarianism is not welcome. This includes but is not limited to: imperialism, nationalism, genocide denial, ethnic or racial supremacy, fascism, Nazism, Marxism-Leninism, Maoism, etc.
  Tankies are defined as authoritarian "communists"
- I replied in the other post, but I did indeed follow the guidelines (I should know, I wrote them!)