5h ago

Anything you say or do on Firefox may be used by Mozilla against you. You have the right to use a different browser. If you cannot find a browser that doesn’t fuck you over one way or another, one

Anything you say or do on Firefox may be used by Mozilla against you. You have the right to use a different browser. If you cannot find a browser that doesn’t fuck you over one way or another, one will not be provided for you because capitalism is working exactly as designed.

https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-terms-of-use/

https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/information-about-the-new-terms-of-use-and-updated-privacy/td-p/87735

#Mozilla #Firefox #TermsOfUse #SiliconValley #BigTech #USA #AI

50 comments

@aral@mastodon.ar.al
Fork it.

Can someone clarify if there's an option to opt-out of all these new data collection stuff? I have all the telemetry related stuff disabled, so I'm not sure if it includes these new things.

@aral@mastodon.ar.al that’s it, I’m making my own browser from scratch. Forget the blackjack and hookers, I just want to browse the internet sometimes

Not sure how comments propagate between Lemmy and Mastodon, but I'm getting tired of the fear mongering and misinformation about all of this. Can you point to the specific parts of the new Terms that you're afraid of? I've gone through it, as have many others, and these are pretty boilerplate standards any company would have. Things like AI bots are USER enabled. You have to actively turn it on to use it and DUH you'll have to agree to that services Terms as well.
- Is it fear mongering?
  Why are they planning to remove the part about notbselling user' data?
- "You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet. When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox."
  
  This statement is entirely useless without also reading the Privacy Notice.
  When you type in "https://lemmy.world/", guess what? They kind of need to know where you're going in order to process that request. They are processing that url. At least within the browser.
  If you take the time to read the Privacy Notice, they point out the data that actually gets stored by them. Also they point out all the stuff that never leaves your device and is only processed within the browser on your machine. Guess what, your browsing history is one of those things that never leaves the machine.
  "Mozilla collects certain data, like technical and settings data, to provide the core functionality of the Firefox browser and associated services, distinguish your device from others, remember and respect your settings, and provide you with default features such as New Tab, PDF editing, password manager and Total Cookie Protection. You can further customize your Firefox experience by adjusting your controls, buttons, and toolbars and adding features with add-ons."
  Great, if I signed in to my account in Firefox and asked it to mirror saved bookmarks and passwords across all my devices... How do you think it's going to do that without sending data to Mozilla's servers? Don't turn on those features and the data doesn't get stored. Awesome.
  Okay, cool... What about stuff it doesn't collect?
  "Firefox processes a variety of personal data in a way that does not leave your device, such as browsing history, web form data, temporary internet files, and cookies. This means the data stays on your device and is not sent to Mozilla’s servers unless it says otherwise in this Notice. If you choose to allow it, your precise location may also be processed for location-related functionality for websites like Google Maps; this data is only accessed from your device by the website(s) you choose to enable it for — it is not sent to Mozilla's servers."
  Cool, so all the privacy things I care about.... Never actually leave my device?
  Awesome. Oh hey they say something about search here...
  "When you perform a search in Firefox, your search query, device data and location data will be processed by your default search engine (according to their applicable Privacy Notice) to provide your search results and search suggestions."
  Well if I want Google / Bing / DuckDuckGo search results... I guess it's gonna have to send them my search request. Makes sense.
  Oh Firefox also shows it's own search results but... Oh cool I can disable those and no data will be sent to Mozilla.
  " [...] Mozilla processes certain technical and interaction data, such as how many searches you perform, how many sponsored suggestions you see and whether you interact with them. Mozilla's partners receive de-identified information about interactions with the suggestions they've served. You can enable or disable Search suggestions at any time."
  Maybe take the time to read everything before you spread FUD.

The Privacy Notice doesn't say anything problematic at all, why is everyone acting like Mozilla is going to be feeding every keystroke into a database/AI? It's just saying that they're allowed use your inputs to browse to the sites you've asked for, and to give the form data/uploads/mic/whatever to the sites you're using.
A few words cherry picked from the middle of a sentence isn't how legal stuff works.
- Wtf are you on about ? A browser does not need a TOS in order to serve you web pages.
  The only reason that you need a TOS is if you are collecting and retaining (and possibly analyzing) those user inputs on separate third-party servers.
  It’s a fucking wiretap.
- @Deebster@programming.dev Oh, I don’t know… I wonder why…
  https://www.mozilla.ai/
  
  Yes, Mozilla does some AI, like the in-browser, privacy-respecting language translation. If you use the same feature in Chrome, the text is submitted to a Google server, but in Firefox it never leaves your browser. I don't see how this could be spun to count against Firefox/Mozilla.
- I'm not lawyer, but my reading of it says they can use that to at least get you targeted ads. Is that not a worry, or is it not new?
  
  In the advertising bit they say what data they use and it's all broad stuff like device type and location, as well as aggregate data on how many people click on the ads. Of course, you can just disable this, which surely most people do - tbh I forgot there was even this "sponsored content" there at all (it was added a while ago I think).
  They don't say that your browsing habits, interactions or communications are used for anything besides doing what's required to actually do what you asked.

@aral@mastodon.ar.al The practical solution I found in the comments was #LibreWolf. I'll have a look at that browser. Just being interested in alternative solutions.
#browsers

@aral@mastodon.ar.al
good time to start contributing to ladybird, either monetary or via
contributions https://donorbox.org/ladybird

@aral@mastodon.ar.al I don't quite understand the hate of Firefox, was their update directly at your sentiment? Mozilla is a nonprofit and they're of course not going to be perfect but they're kind of the last game in town since Google took over all the browser backends? I see a lot of "go to librewolf" but would they have enough support to maintain the browser if FF died?
- @maniajack@mastodon.world Mozilla is a not-for-profit that owns a half-a-billion dollar a year for-profit that gets its half-a-billion dollars a year from Google.
  Or, as their head of public policy once told me: “Why are you being so hard on us? We’re just another Silicon Valley tech company.”
  🤷‍♂️

@aral@mastodon.ar.al Another good reminder that just because something is lead by a non-profit does not mean it has inherent ethics or the interests of its consumers in mind
- @wonkothesane@mstdn.social * A not-for-profit that owns a half-a-billion dollar a year for-profit that gets its half-a-billion dollars a year from Google.

I just discovered a Firefox fork called Floorp. It’s being developed in Japan and their privacy policy is very good. Check em out!

@aral@mastodon.ar.al Damn, not firefox too. It was the last mainstream browser that didn't exploit your privacy. People who want to switch, Vivaldi, Brave and other firefox forks are still open (though you should do your research before moving)

@aral@mastodon.ar.al Grrr, I just switched over to Firefox after realizing how crappy Chrome is for privacy/ads. 😡

Guess they have to pay the CEO's $7m salary somehow.

@aral@mastodon.ar.al has anyone used the #TheOnionRouter aka tor browser? @eff@mastodon.social rates it good for privacy.
- It's very slow, and many websites block TOR users.

@aral@mastodon.ar.al I have a question here, does this also apply to Firefox forks? (I'm affraid the answer is yes...)
CC: @Waterfox@mastodon.social
- No because they free to, and will remove the stupid TOS.
- @Hache@masto.es @Waterfox@mastodon.social No, they can’t dictate terms of use for forks without violating their own open source license.

Bro imagine caring so much about your fucking browser. Lmao
- @Randomgal@lemmy.ca I bet you’re great fun at parties.

@aral@mastodon.ar.al
Does that mean, if i type something into a mask on an encrypted website (https), that Mozilla can read it?
- @messaroundmarx@zirk.us 🤷‍♂️
  At least they’re open source so you should be able to see exactly what information is being collected if you dive into the code.
  
  @aral@mastodon.ar.al
  @messaroundmarx@zirk.us http://www.underhanded-c.org/

@aral@mastodon.ar.al I’ve been noodling on privacy-oriented and non-Chromium options other than FF for a while, and feel a bit hamstrung.
Really rather avoid Brave for not wanting to support that CEO, and that doesn’t leave much.
The hope that I can also sync a browser between my iPhone app and Windows laptop seemingly just makes it totally unattainable.
Wide open to other recommendations.
- Donate or support an open source engine so we can leave these baddies behind us https://servo.org/ it was originally a mozilla project but is now its own. I have been watching it for a year and they have made a significant amount of progress but still a lot more to go.