Monero's Home: XMPP vs Matrix (video)
Monero's Home: XMPP vs Matrix (video)
Monero's home is right now on Matrix. I'm disputing that. This is a video follow-up with some of the replies from last time.
If you are new, XMPP and Matrix are two competing federated end-to-end encrypted messengers. XMPP is far better, on server cost decentralization, speed over Tor, degoogled push notifications, multi-identities, and overall privacy. So if Matrix is inferior centralized bloatware, why is it more popular? Especially among XMR techies, who should in theory understand these concepts.
This brand new video gives a quick overview of the technical reasons that XMPP is the gold standard king of federation. And it briefly discusses how Matrix manages to push it’s agenda: https://video.simplifiedprivacy.com/xmpp-vs-matrix-why-matrix-sucks/
Some critics will say that “Matrix is a complete package, while XMPP is fragmented”. This is essentially propaganda, because all the XMPP clients interact (Dino, Gajim, conversations, monocles). The only one that doesn’t interact is OTR encryption from pidgin which provides an alternative for hardcore cypherpunks who want to destroy the encryption keys when the conversation is done. So because one single client has an alternative use case, the Matrix cheerleaders want us to fill out Google Captcha spyware to register on Matrix.org because it costs so much to self-host.
XMPP's current server implementations may be better, but I feel like its something Matrix will match in the future. I'm not very well educated on the topic, but Element being generally user friendly and having lots of features similar to Discord brings a massive audience to privacy respecting, federated, encrypted messaging which is a huge advantage for being able to message regular people. If Matrix's server matures to the point of XMPP in the future (and clients if they're not already), would XMPP have any advantages?
Quite one-sided video. Many things you list as negatives in the Matrix's column are simply "not the whole truth". For example: "matrix requires captcha", "matrix requires email"---these are not true for all the existing homeservers. You may find a homeserver that's open for registration that doesn't force you to train google's machine vision AI nor give up an email.
Another "not the whole truth" is that "dendrite freezes and doesn't let you join big rooms". I have been using my own dendrite homeserver for the last 2 years, and while it may be true that I had some "freezes" when I tried to join some software support communities, in the end (after a few minutes) I always managed to join in, and never got locked out of the discussion.
Apart from all of that, xmpp's multi-device e2ee is also a mess. You make it sound like it is a piece of cake---it ain't.
I AIN FUGGIH PLAYIH NIGGA YAW GON WAKE UP DEAD TOMORROW BITCH :niggy_ollie:
The majority of matrix servers do require google & email though, especially when compared to xmpp.
as far as dendrite goes, we're talking about using Tor & a degoogled phone without google push notifications. can you honestly tell me that matrix is not slower than XMPP here?
As far as xmpp e2ee multi-device, you're right that it's not perfect. I agree with your criticism, but it's BETTER than matrix.
>as far as dendrite goes, we’re talking about using Tor & a degoogled phone without google push notifications.
I have been doing that for years now, kiddo. CalyxOS user of 2 years, here---before that I have used GrapheneOS. Both without microG or any other google play compatibility layers.
I use Element Android with Orbot proxy. It is pretty usable. I get notifications, a-Okay. Nothing to fearmonger about there.
If xmpp is really better than matrix, then you shouldn't be needing these "half-truth" videos to spread its use.
Anyways. Do what you gotta do.
@k4r4b3y @ShadowRebel
>after a few minutes
this should honestly never be acceptable for an instant-messaging platform@opal @ShadowRebel I agree. Do the tabulations. List the pros and cons, and see if you want to use matrix dendrite.
Great to see this conversation being started.
What we need is a decentralized IPFS or the like based encrypted messaging network where you can run a node and allocate resources, the network would auto purge oldest messages and longest inactive accounts as storage becomes limited. Anyone can start a chat room and it is all searchable. That way no one person has to host identifiable entry points.
Moderation might be an issue with such a platform, who's responsible for cleaning spam, csam, etc? Giving someone that power will centralize the system anyways. The current federated system works pretty well in my opinion.
@ShadowRebel
>OTR encryption from pidgin which provides an alternative for hardcore cypherpunks
cryptoanarchist here we moved on from otr ages ago because the parser is a fucking nightmare@ShadowRebel *multiple* implementations have caused client crashes in the past, and implementing otr is abysmal, havent seen this from omemo