2y ago

Texas power prices soar 20,000% as brutal heat wave sets off emergency

markets.businessinsider.com

Texas power prices soared 20,000% Wednesday evening amid another brutal heat wave.
Spot electricity prices topped $5,000 per megawatt-hour, up more than 200 times from Wednesday morning.
The state's grid operator issued its second-highest energy emergency, then later said conditions returned to normal.

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2y ago

Texas power prices soar 20,000% as brutal heat wave sets off emergency

markets.businessinsider.com /news/commodities/texas-power-prices-20000-percent-heat-wave-ercot-grid-emergency-2023-9

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2y ago

Texas power prices soar 20,000% as brutal heat wave sets off emergency

markets.businessinsider.com /news/commodities/texas-power-prices-20000-percent-heat-wave-ercot-grid-emergency-2023-9

159 comments

Hey little buddy, how's the independent grid working out for you?
Jesus Christ.
- Texas: Big government is evil!
  Also Texas: Big government, the climate change weve been denying is boiling us please save our freedom grid
- I want a book that's just passive aggressive notes signed by Jesus
  "Bet it all on the Steelers huh? Bet your wife is going to be real happy about that.
  -Jesus Christ"
  "Oh you sure showed that group of children who's boss yes sir.
  -Jesus Christ"
- Pray for Elon to help the poor
As a lib, I feel so owned.
I'm glad I live in Washington state with our cheap renewable energy.
- You are kind of owned, since these red states fucking up just means that more of your tax money will go to saving these idiots from themselves through federal aid
  
  As another fellow Washingtonian, I'm getting pretty tired of subsidizing willful stupidity.
  
  Never should have let the southern states back in like we did.
  We should have hanged every last confederate.
  It's not too late though.
- Texas actually does better in the renewable energy front than you may expect.
  A quarter of the state's energy is produced through wind and solar. The biggest bottleneck preventing more wind adoption is the capacity of transmission lines up and the lack of energy storage.
  The advantage of natural gas is that it can be dry up pretty much anywhere and isn't dependent on weather.
  The biggest problem Texas has right now regarding energy (and housing costs, and inflation, and municipal planning, and traffic, etc) is its extremely rapid population growth.
  Yes, the heat wave is historic and ERCOT is awful, but even in perfect weather the grid is being stressed from the sheer number of people and businesses moving here
  
  Don’t forget natural gas lines can freeze. Remember Ted Cruz going to Cancun? Pepperidge farm remembers.
  
  Ummmm they use cardboard for their new construction sheathing, new construction r value code is 30-39 compared to 49-60 for Washington.
- Texas has plenty of power. Their problem is the delivery network. Their prices surge because power can't be delivered to everybody, not because there isn't enough for everybody.
  
  But Texas also has plenty of space and sunlight for other renewables.
  
  You ever been east of the mountains? It's going to be over 90 where my parents are today. It was over 100 for quite a bit this summer.
  
  If you had the same amount of heat, you'd have more sunlight hours and thus better conditions for solar power. If you had more wind, wind power etc.
  There's no scenario anywhere in the world where the entire energy consumption and more can't be supplied via renewable sources. All that's missing is the political will to go against the fossil fuel industry.
- How do I upvote you twice?
- Welcome to Cascadia, land of trees, salmon, and hydroelectric dams.
  
  and while its not renewable and there's a big question on how effectively its stored, nuclear power is sustainable.
- Heard a piece of NPR about how our green grid is actually having a lot of trouble keeping up because climate change is fucking up our rainfall, and hence our hydro electric. Even if you do it right, you end up paying for the greed of everyone else.
- I’m glad I live in Washington state with our cheap renewable energy.
  Texas has more renewable energy production than you do. In Q1 of 2022 Washington State generated 25 Million Megawatt hours of renewal energy and Texas generated 34.
  In fact Texas generates more renewable energy than anyone else. So much more that, excluding Washington, you'd need to combine at least three other states to surpass them.
  
  Texas is also the second biggest state and 3 times larger by land mass than Washington state.
Are you idiots Great Again yet?
- hey the rest of the american grids are fine. Texas didn't want to follow certain governemnt regulation so they made their own grid.
  
  With blackouts. And hookers.
  
  I was talking directly to the women hating, book banning, brown people fearing , maga-loving, selfish ignorant racists that vote in Texas.
I remember my parents planning to retire to Texas about 10 years ago, I told 'em "that state's going to be unlivable b/c of climate change pretty soon, don't buy land there".
They're Republicans so pish-tosh. They have spent weeks this summer essentially unable to be outside anywhere.
- Retiring somewhere where you can be burned by the pavement if you fall over? That's an interesting choice.
  
  Mmm, pan seared grandma
- Big Weather man, they're part of the deep state that's silencing conservative voices by stopping them from going outside.
Maybe stop electing Republican orcs and your state will improve.
- I'm trying so hard... I swear, our ballot boxes should be called wishing wells to better curb my hopes...
  
  The problem is Texas Democrats and those who'd stand against Republicans don't vote. I don't feel like digging out the exact numbers, but the 2022 gubernatorial race shows it best. Abbott got nearly 80% of the votes Trump did in 2020. Beto got 60% of the votes Biden did. Republicans show up, Democrats don't. Until that changes. nothing in this state will change.
- Voter suppression is big in Texas.
- Republicans in Texas still blame liberals for the grid problems for some reason.
  
  The "some reason" is because it works.
- Why you gotta insult orcs like that?
If only there was some kind of energy source that worked best during intense sunlight.
- Solar is only half the battle though. There can often be a severe electricity shortage in the evening when solar power shuts off but temperates are still high. This issue is greatest in the late summer and fall because it’s still very hot but the sun sets earlier.
  There are solutions to this issue but they are fairly early in development and sometimes expensive. California is struggling with this issue currently. We’ve installed a huge amount of battery power over the last few years which has prevented several catastrophes so far but heat continues to get more severe, increasing energy needs as we are trying to shut down the state’s remaining gas peaker plants.
  
  Solar is only half the battle though. There can often be a severe electricity shortage in the evening when solar power shuts off but temperates are still high
  That's true of household panels (which are great for offsetting your daytime usage, which is usually your highest usage), but that is generally not true of large solar installations that heat up a huge mass of salt until it's molten and then produce power from that source 24/7. Example: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/16012018/csp-concentrated-solar-molten-salt-storage-24-hour-renewable-energy-crescent-dunes-nevada/
  TL/DR: large solar installations produce power 24/7 (yes, even when it's dark)
  
  This is solar's half of the battle, high energy demand during bright sunlight.
  
  I fail to see the problem. You cool your house down while the sun is up and even if it is still hot outside, then your house gets a bit warmer, so what? Still it is comfy inside and in the night you can open everything up to get some fresh wind in.
  
  Not to mention Diablo Canyon. Last I heard, we were working on an expansion at Long Valley Geothermal station, but it won't be ready before DCNR goes offline.
  
  recently learned that if we went with nuclear decades ago this whole problem wouldn't even exist. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/nuclear-power-isnt-perfect-is-it-good-enough/
Aaahhh, the free market economy at work without limits, without government planning, regulations, or interference.
Government regulations bad! It means we can't squeeze our customers, we can't fuck up on an hourly basis, we can't be dicks!
And in before the commies start... No. Bad dog! Get out with your "we need to become Communist hippie communes!" comments, please
We need to put reasonable rules and limits to a capitalist system. Regulate big companies, regulate infrastructure, tax the rich, use the money for social platforms
- I'm with the commies on this one. We need to nationalize utilities like energy distribution. No reason to have a profit seeking entity in charge of necessities like electricity.
  
  In sane parts of the US, utility companies are technically private entities, but they're related so much they pretty much operate like government agencies.
- In all fairness, Texas has an incredibly weird, idealistic, view of the value of market forces and their government utterly fails in its job as a result.
  It's not just power lines. It's everything. They distort their market on ideological lines and then assume that's the best case.
  
  Too be fair, it is the best case if you're one of the rich assholes who owns everything and just wants to squeeze the poors.
As a former Texan this breaks my heart. Alot of innocent and less well off people will suffer due to entrenched corruption.
I moved away because of this exact kind of shit.
- Where’d u go? We came up to Portland.
  
  I moved to the PNW as well. I hate the bureaucracy, and miss the barbecue, but they can have the rest. The bureaucracy you have to tolerate because it helps maintain the balance of divided people making the best choices. Much better path than down south where the road to hell is paved with red intentions.
  
  Philadelphia, it's paradise.
They have an excess of energy (too much sun) but the grid is close to collapsing (too much cooling). Maybe install more solar power?
- The problem is ideology. The Texas power grid is the end state of neo-liberalism taken to the extreme.
  The belief that natural monopolies should be privately controlled with minimum regulations has lead to this. A power grid run for maximum short term profit with minimum investment. The grids poorly maintained, because that doesn't make money. The grid is unfit, because implementing designs that cover the extremes is expensive. The price is excessive because the state is ideologically unwilling to intervene.
- Many Texas leaders (and other Taxans) see any energy source that's not oil and gas based as "part of the radical liberal agenda."
  
  Pay 1000$ electrical bill to own the libs!
  
  Well yeah, being a manly man means being inconsiderate and destructive to the environment.
  Oh, you care about nature? You want to be a steward of the Earth? Sounds gay. And gay men get beat to death and sent to hell.
  
  Sure they do, then they get run the fuck over by the big money Capitalists who are building it anyway. Texas is #1 in renewable energy production for a reason.
  
  Many Texas leaders (and other Taxans) see any energy source that’s not oil and gas based as “part of the radical liberal agenda.”
  Solar energy is also decentralized, so people/villages can have their own source of energy and the profits won't go to one monopoly and that can't happen, because free market - yes - but not actual free like this.
  
  They do, but capitalism is gonna win this one. Solar is cheap and sunshine is plentiful so it is still getting built. ERCOT is a disaster, most of it on purpose but the legislation that set it up.
  Would probably be a good idea to hook up to the neighboring power grids too for emergencies... like every day in the summer is turning in to.
- I work in Solar Construction and Texas is our fastest growing market right now.
  
  Quick question, how do I get solar installed (in Texas) without getting scammed. Every company I have talked too has felt like dealing with the slimmest used car salesman.
Good thing they got rid of all those pesky regulations or the poors would be using the power.
Texas is trying to attract crypto miners, I hear.
...
giggle
- Crypto miners say "ok you need power so we will stop our servers" and Texas gov gives them millions of $ to thank them.
EMERGENCY!
YOU ARE IN TEXAS!
oh my God!
Oh, again?
Wasn't the whole point in investing in oil in Texas to keep the energy prices low?
How is that working out for em?
- Actually, pretty well 99.9% of the time. And if a few people die here or there in a freeze or heatwave, well they shoulda use some of those electricity savings on a generator or something.
  ^ How the conservatives in Texas feel about the situation
  
  Some of you may die...
People will soon be living in Texas no power year around when they throttle you and charge you thousands for power every month of the year because either A) ITsSS TWOooh HAaAWwTT or B) TtThEEee GGRiiIdD IIsSSnnTT Winterized. What a joke
- If Texas is anything like Mississippi, you're not allowed to live without electricity. You'll be evicted, AKA homeless...
Texas power prices soared 20,000% Wednesday evening amid another brutal heat wave.
Makes sense. I'm told everything's bigger in Texas.
This has been going on for years now. I feel bad for those that suffer there because of this, but if you choose to willingly live there when you have the means to leave, I don't feel sorry for you anymore. It's the ones unable to leave that I truly feel bad for, those that don't have any other choice.
Meanwhile in reality:
Texas is 1st in the nation in renewables (thanks Obama).
3000Mw battery storage averted this emergency, and there’s a ton more of that on the way (thanks Biden).
- Look, this is super misleading information and I keep seeing it repeated. They're first in the nation in total electricity generation from renewable sources, but that's mainly because of how big they are. If you look at what percentage of their consumption is from renewable sources, they're not even in the top ten.
- The reason Texas is #1 in renewables is actually Rick Perry, bless his heart. He pushed for a massive expansion of wind generation capacity back in the early 00s and was instrumental in building high voltage transmission lines between west Texas wind and the more eastern population centers. He would be drummed out of today's Republican party
  
  When wanting to eliminate the Dept of Education is too woke...
- Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma have the best onshore wind power potential. Pretty good solar too. And they're tapping in to it.
Has Turd Cruz fled to cooler vacation spots yet?
- Turd Cruds spends most of his time in DC eating fancy $300 per person lunches.
  
  How many persons do you reckon he eats in one sitting?
This is why poorer people bear the brunt of climate change danger. Maybe the only thing absurd about Tank Girl were the talking kangaroos.
- With the way this world is going even the talking kangaroos aren't that absurd.
Reminds me of Enron. There’s plenty of electricity generated, but they claim the grid is too old to get it to customers. Things that make you go hmmm.
Eat the rich.
But you see... the free market... will solve... everything. /s
My Texan ass was confused because the last week has been the most pleasant weather we've had in months. The I looked at the article and saw it's from 2017. Don't get me wrong our state is fucking dumb all of the time, but I assure you we are not experiencing a heat wave. It's been unseasonably cool.
- The article was from September 8th. The wind turbine image is from 2017.
  
  I stand corrected. But it's not so hot now. Also it wasn't a heat wave, it's just Texas summer. Which is why there's no excuse for ercot to be so fucking unprepared.
Always Mess With Texas!
This is how you spell business with a backwards 'R'
- Яusiness
- In first world states these kinds of price spikes and lengthy outages due to temperatures don't happen instead of happening every 6 months.
  Sure, hurricanes and other natural disasters, but not simple temperature changes.
  
  This wasn't a "simple temperature change," this was a record-breaking heatwave. It hit 108° in Austin that day, which was one of the hottest highs of the entire summer. Ultimately this article is bullshit though, because the "emergency" consisted of ERCOT asking for voluntary energy conservation for one evening and then everything returning to normal.

159 comments