Imagine dying and your last words being "Live, Laugh, Love"

dont you know that American are innocent little beans who were lied to in history class. can you believe it? in fact people on hexbear will claim that americans are "the most propagandized people on earth" and that everything is determinant already anyway and that humans have no choice and that morality and actions dont matter EXCEPT if you JUDGE someone for believing bigoted things YOU (the minority) are the bad guy and a bad leftist who is ruining any chances for communism to be real. im not over exaggerating takes like this have gotten 30+ upvotes, people have compared a poor person stealing bread to eat as the same as a white man choosing to be racist.

Here’s the thing, with very few exceptions every Israeli made the active decision to serve in the military. The punishments are minimal enough I’d consider working retail a worse fate.

Not every American serves in the military.

Permanently Deleted

Americans are poor little victims whomst bear no responsibility for the most murderous state on Earth?

Right away I think this is a strawmen, most people on hexbear don't believe the second part and when this point is made, well are you ideologically consistent or not? Is propaganda actually real and capitalists control everything or Americans are literally voting for every dumb shit their imperialist masters decide to do? Are we even talking about the same people that can't even point to most countries on a map? Even if most Americans decide to be "against" [insert current US sponsored genocide/war here] would that actualy change anything at all? Since when is the US actualy influenced by public opinion?

The core here is reponsibility is not the same as guilt. You can be an accomplice, you can even accept and refuse to do anything to prevent something, But take that to the logical conclusion e.g every American that doesn't kill a cop on sight is responsible for the next time a pig kills an innocent person. Everyone that doesn't immidiately murders everyone who works in the MIC is literaly reponsible the for the next drone strike?

Yes that is a joke but the point is American "responsibility" should always be viewed from the context of class analysis imo, it is the only way to be ideologicaly consistent.

The second point is that you're already contradicting yourself here when you say you don't want nuance but then you're forced to clarify you're talking about Euro(white) Americans. That is nuance because POC identify as "American" just as white people, however we decide to pass judgement on this choice it is still a fact and it will only become a more fundamental fact as time becomes and American society becomes even more diverse.

Also I shouldn't have to tell you this, but nobody here unironicaly asking for genocide of anyone, even white Americans. Even doomers like me I think the worst outcome would be a WW3 scenario where the victorious army marches onto Washington and changes everything through sheer force, at that point if you're still fighting for "America" you're are the enemy and deserve to die, before that point, don't mistake the discourse in a vacuum here for actual meaningful political theory.

Also final point, if you go down the hate ladder so much what becomes the real difference between you and some 4chan loser that decides to do a mass shooting in a school or mall? Americans are all "guilty" right? What is the real difference when the outcome is the same? Not saying that is what you're proposing but what does "not care about the suffering" actualy means in practice isn't so simple.

Because the vast majority of the people here are americans, snf they dont want to get got. Except me. I legit want all us white americans to get genocided* and the land returned to the native peoples

*in minecraft

Nah youre right. But then again, I always agreed with your hatred for Americans. I feel it in my soul.

You have to always push against Americans because even the most leftist Americans still hold some reactionary viewpoints somewhere inside.

I say this as the aforementioned "Euro-American" aka a white dude in the US.

Usually it's something to do with China, USSR, Iran, Islamic countries in general, or, recently, defense for Israel/kneejerk hatred towards Palestinians.

And as far as a more Marxist or material analysis of why Americans are the way we are (and I say we because none of us can escape all of this. We can try, but it's not possible to fully escape it. I cannot pretend that I am special or different and doing so would be pointless anyway):

Our material conditions in the US are objectively better than a lot of the world and certainly the global south which the US exploits in various ways. One of the more nefarious but never talked about, outside of niche leftist-type communities, is IMF loans and other financial tools of control.

Now, how do you explain to Americans who are relatively, within the US, poor but who are, in a global perspective, 'not bad off' that they should give a shred of a shit about atrocities committed by the US military? Well, to be super frank, you kinda can't. People have to change their entire fucking mindset and view of the world in order to see that the capitalists of our country collude with other capitalists and use financial and military strength to subjugate the world to enrich themselves.

Since Americans all collectively benefit to some degree from this exploitation, and everyone sort of knows this or can easily learn it, there's no material incentive to demand change to what we like to call euphemistically... "Foreign policy." "Muslims being tortured and murdered? Sounds bad, BUT what's his stance on healthcare for all Americans?" And just like that poof any chance at giving a shit has been dismissed without people even realizing that they've done so.

Try suggesting to about 80% or more Americans that the US military is OBJECTIVELY the most evil, murderous, terroristic force on earth and ever in world history and you'll get a SEA of "but China!" "The Nazis!" "The Soviets!!!"

Americans partly don't know, partly don't want to know, partly know and don't care, partly know and (my favorite) think it's good and benefits them either by making them "safer" (from whom? Who knows. The Russian-Chinese-Islamic terrorists or whatever) or in a material way. As if the US developing bombs and planes, wasting all those resources in the efforts, and then killing via sanctions or directly people abroad in order to extract resources really, actually benefits them. Not that it would be a justification anyway, but it's also just not really true. Most of the stolen wealth from other countries just goes straight to the top 1% or whatever of capitalists.

And as far as being a purely evil organization, the euphemistically-named (lots of euphemisms) US department of defense (when was the last defense done? Never. It wasn't even the DoD for WWII) along with the CIA, FBI, DEA, etc. as a fucking policy spent the last 80 or so years opposing actual democracies (socialist states) worldwide via terrorism, threat of annihilation, mass murders, rapes, hostage taking, leveling of all industrial centers, etc. to include literally everything a person can imagine. The US has sanctioned, approved, and done it all, including up until today.

I don't think Americans are beyond hope or whatever or that we (or Israelis) should all be killed. I know that's the meme and shit, but speaking for real, no. However, I will say, we (generally) cannot be trusted by the global south/third world to ever be good faith partners in peace or economic solidarity. Not as things currently are and likely will remain to be. I know that will hurt many Americans' feelings, but sometimes shit sucks and your country sucks so much fucking shit that you have a stink on you so bad that it can't be ignored. Americans tend to have this weird perspective that we by default get to be involved in everything. That we're the center of everything. Well, that's kinda true, but only for the evil shit mostly. Anything bad that has happened in the last century you can draw a fuckload of lines directly back to the US and good things like socialist projects worldwide are completely devoid of American influence. That's reason alone for me to say "clearly Americans need to just stay the fuuuuck away." And I don't think many people around the world are gonna be out there crying "no no let the Americans speak!" Another thing Americans don't know is that the world fucking hates us. Maybe not Americans, but definitely the US state.

The hardest but most important political stance any American MUST hold is basically: the US military and all of its adjacent and related entities (CIA, etc.) must be opposed from within, crippled as much as possible, ground to a halt, dismantled and destroyed.

That is the first and most important step to ending untold worldwide suffering which includes, ironically, inside the US. I don't like to spend much time dwelling on it, but martial states like the US (and Israel) suffer from that mindset at home too. We are mentally sick people. It's easy for us to judge Israelis since we are not Israeli (most of us anyway). But that's how the world also sees Americans! Maybe we're not so far gone down the specific little fascist rabbit hole that Israel went down, but we're every bit as islamophobic, racist, entitled, and just fucking annoying as Israelis. Of course the biggest obvious difference is Israel is a small country and limited by such in what it can do militarily. The US is very large and has no such limits. What Israel can and does do to Gaza and the West Bank the US can and has done to nations thousands of miles away.

Not much else to say. America is a fascist land of reactionary tendencies. If you're American and want that to end then you must oppose the US military and whatever that entails. You must purge from your mind of the idea of innocent US soldiers. If you find that hard to do, then just say nothing. It's better than screaming at those in oppressed nations (by the US military) how gross they are or whatever for celebrating deaths of US soldiers. You do not ever need to side with the imperialist or its dogs. The US military is fully voluntary. Everyone there chose, ultimately, to be there. People will argue whatever material reasons, but at the end of the day, the same as the IDF or the German Whermacht, a choice WAS made.

Death to the Great Satan.

🤡