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Technology @lemmy.world

dwazou @lemm.ee

2d ago

EU fines Apple $568m for deterring third-party payment methods on App Store

www.gamesindustry.biz

EU fines Apple $568m for deterring third-party payment methods on App Store

Fuck the stupid morons who defend Apple.

Imagine if Microsoft banned Windows users from installing the software they want on their computer.

Imagine if Microsoft required all software developers to give them 30% of their earning or Microsoft will ban them from Windows

98 comments

Hating on Apple for their 30% cut is popular.
Hating on Google for their 30% cut is popular.
Hating on Microfot, Sony, and Nintendo for their cuts is popular.
But somehow hating on Steam for their 30% cut is going too far.
- I'd like to see a game developer chiming in but as a user, 30% cut by Steam feels justified.
  They have helped me discover and buy many games that I wouldn't have even heard of otherwise. Compare that to Google Play Store which is full of dogshit shovelware and Pay2Win games.
  And sometimes I've even bought Steam keys via Fanatical bundles, where I chose which games to buy by looking at their Steam store pages. Steam got nothing from these transactions as far as I know.
  This is without getting into other useful stuff like guides and forums hosted by Steam which I can look at whenever I get stuck. Or Steam workshop which allows users to easily mod the games.
  Call me a fanboy but I'm tired of this 'what about Steam' comments.
  Ask Sony, Microsoft, Google, and Nintendo to improve their stores instead.
  
  100% this. At least epic tried to make a value proposition for developers but developers can just make more from steam. Having said that, steam/valve had a hand in the always online gaming situation which we have all just come to accept. I buy from Gog where I can
- The difference is availability of choice. On apple phones, Xbox, Nintendo, and PlayStation you are locked into a single source of software. On a PC there are myriad of game stores you can choose from. Sometimes you can even buy the software directly from the developer. Usually people are upset when this choice is taken away (for example epic exclusive games). Nobody would bat an eye if a developer offered their game on epic or their own platform with a ~20% discount compared to steam. But it is up to the developers to make their game available on any of the PC game stores.
  In conclusion, steam is not a platform holder, they could charge whatever they wanted. If the markup was too high, you could simply choose to buy your games elsewhere. For most people, this 30% is worth it for the features and buyer protection that steam offers compared to other platforms.
- Perhaps that's because Steam doesn't seem to be trying very hard to "lock in" developers to their platform. Devs are free to sell their PC games on Gog or Epic or whatever. Steam is popular because it's a good platform. This freedom for developers or customers mostly does not exist on mobile or on consoles, except for the EUs efforts here.
  Even their "console" the Steam Deck can, relatively easily, run games from other stores. I'm not saying a 30% cut should be considered fair but they do seem to take a different approach to digital sales than the other large players.
  
  Yeah it’s arguable that Steam is a monopoly but somehow billion dollar publishers can’t create a store to sell their own products without fucking it up with annoying bullshit. Pay the 30% to protect you from yourselves.
  
  Yeah, Steam is pretty much a monopoly. But I haven't seen what I'd call monopolistic practices from them. It's just that everyone else appears to fall flat on their faces when trying to make a competing product.
  
  It's weird because steam isn't even that amazing at what it does and even some of the features I like can be tempremental or downright buggy at times.
  
  Once I saw the power of Steam on Linux, I knew no other company could touch them.
  
  Valve is a private company owned by someone who is passionate about games and so unlike other companies with investors, they leave short term money on the table to make the best product for gamers. If its ownership model ever changes it will speedrun enshittification for the same reason other storefronts suck
  
  When you're in a monopolistic position you don't need to do much for people to decide to sell in your store instead of going for alternatives, who would have thought?
  
  You could say the same about Google.
  
  The same Google that's been constantly trying to add features that deter 3rd party app stores?
  
  Such as?
  
  Google Play protect
  
  Google SafetyNet. You have rooted your device and/or are using a custom ROM? Then your device definitely isn't secure and a lot of apps straight up prevent you from using them.
  
  Steam is equally shitty, they just have the advantage of not being publicly traded which means they can create long term strategies and execute them successfully.
  Doesn't mean they're pro consumer.
  
  Would not say equally shitty, otherwise they won't have popular support they do.
  You are correct however that they are not pro consumer.
  They are just a smarter, wiser business with a sustainable business model that understands the importance of consumer trust.
  
  You can find popular support for plenty of shitty things. I could point 70m people in the US supporting a very shitty thing!
  
  But those are Americans.
  
  And you think stupidity is exclusive to the US? Italy elected a fascist, Germany's far right party is gaining ground...
  Popular support for something doesn't mean that thing is good.
  
  Germany and Italy learn from their mistakes. The US keeps repeating them more than any other country (except for Argentina)
  
  Eh...
  Clearly they don't considering they had fascist governments decades ago and have one/are on their way to having one again now while it's the first one in the US (Trump's first term wasn't like this one even if it was a shitshow...)
- I agree that the 30% cut is too much. The only reason I give them a pass is because Steam is really good (at least, as a user). But I still want them to lower it.
  
  For a dev those 30% are very much worth it because Steam has tons of customers and very good recommendation algorithms, you gain more in additional sales than what you lose from the cut. Could they do with less probably but they're not extorting devs. There's a reason why Epic had to do stuff like guarantee sales and provide huge advances to get anyone onto their excuse for a platform.
- Steam is not the only means of distribution anywhere, and you can often buy the same game both from Steam and directly.
  It's too early to hate it.
  (Well, I mean, I want a FreeBSD native Steam client with native Proton and all infrastructure, but I can understand that it's a small percentage, even if not that different from Linux support.)
- It would be more comparable if Apple, Microsoft (Xbox), Nintendo, or Sony allowed anyone to make a third party game launcher but they just keep sucking.
- You get value from Steam for paying that.
  What value do you get from Apple for paying the Apple tax? A higher price for a phone that could cost 500€ less?
  
  As a Linux gamer, valve making proton has launched gaming on linux into the stratosphere.
  
  What exactly is the value that steam provides with its 30% cut that Apple doesn’t provide? Not defending Apple by the way.
  Openness of the hardware is a valid point but that isn’t exactly a feature of steam (nor a distinction between the other platforms in OPs comment)
  
  Apple forces me to stay there.
  Valve offers me to stay there. The whole market and review system is incredibly important as I can see if it's even worth it to buy. Where else can you see reviews besides comparing numerous comments under video reviews?
  
  You get value from Steam for paying that
  Are you crazy? You know how much money that is? And this isn't taken from the distributors cut we get higher 30% prices because of it.
  
  Do you have any example for this? Because in my experience, games on Steam cost literally the same amount as everywhere else and sometimes are even a bit cheaper than that.
  
  That's part of the problem. If they charged the same to developers as Epic, I wouldn't be so critical.
  For games primarily sold through Steam, Steam is often the most expensive part of the game. Is it okay that Steam's take is higher than that of all the actual developers combined?
  Have you ever played a game that was actually worth playing and thought that the fucking storefront and game launcher were worth 30% of the game?
  Have you played a bunch of half-baked PC ports that could've used a bit more money on finishing the game?
  Developers decide to launch as-is partpy because they know Steam will be taking a massive cut and there will be no ROI for fixing the game.
- I'm less mad at Steam and Google because there are clear, simple ways to avoid their cuts.
  I have no basis to say whether they're providing a service worth the 30% charge. I'm also less mad at Steam than at Google because they're being less shady about trying to push people into their store too.
- I get why people like steam. But as a steam hater, if GabeN ever dies and the kids or whoever is heirs are decide to sell to VCs or private equity. That 30% will be just as oppressive as anyone else’s.
- Steam isn’t a monopoly.
  The PC is an open platform, you can use any game store or launcher you want - unlike the iPhone, Android (without sideloading), PlayStation, switch, or Xbox.
  
  Yeah the comments about Steam being a monopoly are weird to me. Steam has a huge market share, but they don't own the whole market and they don't try to prevent you from buying your games elsewhere. Proton even works on non-steam games. I've used it to play WoW private servers on Linux.
  If Valve isn't a pro-consumer company, then I don't know what company could possibly fit the criteria. They're not perfect, but they've earned the trust they have. I'll trust Valve until they give me a reason not to.
  
  My Samsung phone comes with an alternative android app store pre-installed.
  
  Ya, but I also installed fdroid pretty easily without the system blocking me.
- Microsoft, Apple, Exxon, Meta, Amazon, JP Morgan or Saudi Aramco are the most powerful corporations in the world. They are empires more powerful than many nations. Their CEOs always travel with armed men. They have the personal phone number of Donald Trump and Xi Jinping.
  It's healthy to scrutinize them. Steam is a problem, but Valve is nowhere near as powerful.
- Steam gets a pass because they actually offer buyer protection, refunds if it doesn’t work, refunds under certain requirements which can be waved under certain circumstances, removal of day one season passes, refunds for dlc that gets delayed too long for example.
  If an actual competitor gave a shit about things that matter to actual players than they have a shot. Epic Game Store is a joke because no one wants a store that only focuses on what corporations want. GOG is good but just doesn’t market itself well, seriously outside of launching CDPR games I don’t see it at all.
  Getting companies to offer their games on platforms that offer a higher margin is easy. Getting players over to a platform that offers less protections and features is not going to happen.
  
  GOG is good but just doesn’t market itself well
  GOG's biggest problem is also their greatest asset: no DRM.
  
  I was denied a refund for a broken game on Steam Deck just last winter. I had never played or even installed it, but I had purchased it and let it sit in my backlog too long before trying.
  By comparison, I can’t recall a single time I’ve been denied a refund request from the iPhone App Store. They’ve also never sold me software that couldn’t run on the hardware they also sold me.
  I understand how it’s my fault according to steam’s ToS, but it still doesn’t seem right to me.
  
  When you ask for a refund under Steam's 2h/14d policy, it's Steam offering the refund. Past that, the request is passed on the developer
  At least that's how I've heard it described, idk for sure
  
  Yeah I wasn’t entirely familiar and it’s not anything I got upset over (again, my fault). It’s just weird because they know I never installed or played it until I asked for the refund, and by nature of software, 14 days doesn’t mean I could have broken or destroyed it or something.
  The game was the Grandia HD Remasters. It didn’t even occur to me to scrutinize compatibility on Deck when I bought it because it’s just a 2D JRPG from the PS1 era that supposed had been modernized.
  
  14 days, to the developer, means that you now know that you actually have the money and can plan with it. Months later, the money has either been spent, or earmarked for something in particular.
  Your best hope at that point is that the developer has allocated some money for people like you but otherwise, nope. Accounting would break down your door if you granted the refund.
  
  It is actually Valve allowing or denying refunds, not the developer. When GTAV Online stopped working on Deck, some people with hundreds of playtime successfully refunded the game, iirc someone even refunded their Deck.
  
  They absolutely can do such things but then the money comes out of their pockets, possibly with the option to sue Rockstar for breach of contract and money back. I wouldn't even be surprised if Rockstar contacted Valve and said "don't worry we'll take the hit", having calculated what it costs to continue supporting the deck vs. taking that hit. Certainly not a company which has to worry about cashflow a lot.
  Sony also refunded CP77, IIRC without getting CDPR involved, and Sony generally has a shoddy return policy. At that point, to the store, customer goodwill is more important and they'll figure out things on the backend.
  OP didn't describe that kind of case, though, but "I bought a game without checking whether it's compatible with my hardware and didn't bother to launch it for six months". Steam isn't going to refund that out of their own pocket that's what the 14 days are for, so that they don't have to do it out of their own pocket.
- I hate it 🙂
- Steam's 30% is the last of their problems, I would like them to finally start actually moderating Steam forums. Because devs of the particular game usually don't care. Visit some forums of newly released popular game and it's full of bigots, misogyny, trolls and hate. It's unbelievable.
  Go check oblivion remastered
  
  Bigots, Misogyny, Trolls & Hate is translation for I want people censored because I am on a power-trip. These are vague & nebulous & why don't you & your buddies go counter them
  & Good one mate, because I have been there.
  
  Oh shit, one of those losers is here.
- "Eat the rich!"
  "Including Gabe?"
  "Woooow there cowboy!"
  I hate the hypocrisy.
  
  Gaben is a hardcore libertarian as well. And owns a billion dollar armada of yachts.
  No he’s one of the good ones /s
  
  Valve's response to George Floyd was to give each employee a certain amount of money and let them choose which charity to give it to (if they did give it to charity), which means they could just as well give it to an anti BLM movement if they wanted to.

98 comments