Capitalists don’t care if we burn
Capitalists don’t care if we burn
I took it out of the meme to avoid seeming cluttered, but I must mention that they don’t just want USian corporations to have the monopoly. Renewables are at odds with capitalism and capitalists know oil is more lucrative than less labor intensive alternatives. Ted Reese makes a strong explanation for the lack of adoption of hemp and solar in SoE.
Wow! Imagine if China implemented a policy to prevent people from having kids, or had a giant monopolistic corporation that didn't care about green energy! That would be horrible!
That's the most pathetic lib gotcha I've seen in a while. The one child policy made sense at the time considering the low development they started with and the time it takes to build up and support a bigger population, but you know there were exemptions for minorities and it's not a thing anymore. Second thing, idk what you're talking about, but yes bad corporations do business in China. That doesn't take away from the fact that the PRC is doing way more for the climate than the rest of us.
Where's all the "solar panels and batteries are just as bad as oil" people.
Tbf there is a resource extraction problem, but that is significantly higher in the "we just need to line Elon Musk's pockets so more people have cyber trucks" approach than the "you can have a good EV for yourself if you want but we also have great public buses and trains running on renewables" approach.
Edit: the book that I mentioned criticizes both approaches and offers an interesting hemp based solution. I think it's right and hopefully China more hops on that train. Anyway, I forgot your original comment mentioned it being "just as bad as oil" which is blanketly absurd.
Did they subside it that much? They are highly subsiding solar power and EV, but sadly that's all over a drop in the bucket.
And also they're mostly doing the above to destroy non-chinese companies on those markets but that's something else entirelyI’d call half a trillion in a year a lot. Nonetheless I agree so much more needs to be done especially in a collaborative way, but isolated China’s holding their weight especially compared to the United States and Europe.
The COAL that is being burned in china to power those "green" electric cars and other electric stuff is kinda ignored here. China consumes literally 50% of coal produced in the world. Im not saying its much better in other places because instead of coal they use gas which is a lot cleaner but still bad. Calling china green is like calling saudi arabia green.
China is very good at portraying itself as a good country. The fact is, their power demands are rising, so they invest in and build coal power plants as much as no other country. Yes they have solar farms, but I'm pretty sure it's just for publicity. So please remove this china-greenwashing post, it's spreading a wrong idea of this country. It's just a horrible place
The fact is, their power demands are rising, so they invest in and build coal power plants as much as no other country.
Of course, that's unfortunate. I'm critical of them and they could be doing better. However, have you considered why? It's western factories that go to China and produce our goods. The West's carbon footprint is effectively laundered through China. Also, speak for yourself. Genocide Joe over here keeps approving oil pipelines. Yet you set your malaise on China. They and the EU also keep increasing their military budgets sharply, and the US MIC has long been the greatest contributor) to the climate crisis.
I’m pretty sure it’s just for publicity
I love that your source here is nothing more than intuition.
So please remove this china-greenwashing post,
Lol, you've given me no reason to. While the West fails to meet it's pitiful Paris Climate Accords goals, China has more ambitious goals and is already far ahead of them.
It’s just a horrible place
Again, no evidence, absurd reasoning. If China's such a bad place why have they eliminated poverty and why are chinese living longer, healthier, and happier than USians? Why are at least 95% of Chinese happy with their government?
Edit: I somehow forgot to mention: how can China's green energy be just for show when the US has recently bemoaned their overcapacity?
No, you don't understand. Decades of imperialist propaganda has taught me that China is BAD, and everything that they do is BAD, so how can they possibly do something GOOD? Checkmate
I should point out on the energy front that while they're building more fossil fuel plants, they're decommissioning older, less efficient ones, and building nuclear reactors to take over long term. Coal plants only take a few years to build compared to nuclear plants 20+, so there isn't actually much better they can do while meeting their (and as you point out, the west's) energy needs.
I totally see your point, I never said that the west is doing better. I'm not a fan of the us either and I am fucking disappointed in the western governments to not push for more sustainability. I just don't think people realise what is going on in china and I am tired of reading "china is not that bad, look at the us!" China has basically no human rights, they fucking paint grass green so they can pretend to reach their goals. They have laws, forbidding to collect cooking oil out of trash cans and the sewers. They systematically disappear Uyghurs to off site facilities and "coincidentally" Volkswagen builds a new factory directly next to those buildings. I totally see the responsibility with western companies. But on the other hand, forced labour in this extend does not happen in western countries. I know the us government and us companies are doing super dirty shit, like the killings of union workers in south America by Coca-Cola or their involvement in other countries politics. And do you think as a Chinese citizen you would criticise the government in a servey if literally everything you do is monitored, everywhere you go in a city is filmed by cameras, every app in the app store has to be approved by the government? By law every Chinese company has to provide access to all the data of the users to the government. If you criticise China publicly on tiktok (as shitty as Instagram imo) your post either gets removed or you get blocked. I get that the west has to be careful what we say against eastern countries, because we are greatly responsible for what is going on there. But china deliberately shows their "we build green energy" side and hides their "we have the highest build rate of coal plants" side
I am completely sure that China is indeed spending god knows how many millions in building more solar farms in a year than the US has built in their entire history so people like Jake from Minnesota can be convinced that China is actually a pretty cool place.
Do you people ever listen to yourselves?
I think it's okay to recognize massive investment in solar panel development and solar power in general as being legitimate. I think it is silly to say it's just for publicity, otherwise the US would have done it too, rather than allow themselves to lose face.
You don't have to like China or the CPC to acknowledge China spending a massive amount of resources on implementing green energy.
Not all fossil fuels are created equal. Carbon dioxide emissions per unit of energy generated are twice as high for coal as for natural gas, and the air pollution impact is an order of magnitude higher. As such, reigning in coal use is a major ongoing project for China, a country where, as recently as 2007, over 80 percent of generated electricity came from coal sources. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.COAL.ZS?locations=CN
In the 15-year period from 2007 to 2022, coal’s share of the power mix was reduced from 81 percent to 56 percent, (https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-cut-coal-use-share-below-56-2021-2021-04-22/) putting it in the same range as Australia – a country which could and should have begun its low-carbon transition decades ago, and which has a per capita coal production figure eight times higher than China.(https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/coal-prod-per-capita) Various commentators have pointed out that China continues to build new coal-fired power plants; however, these are almost invariably modern, cleaner and more efficient replacements for existing plants.
In 2017, China’s National Energy Administration cancelled plans to build more than 100 coal-fired power plants, in order to divert power generation efforts into the renewable sector. This will eliminate 120 gigawatts of future coal-fired capacity. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/world/asia/china-coal-power-plants-pollution.html) Beijing closed its last coal-fired plant in 2017.(https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2080270/beijing-shuts-down-its-last-coal-fired-power-plant-part-bid-clear) One particularly symbolic project is a giant floating solar farm – the largest in the world – on top of a former coal mine in Anhui.(https://www.businessinsider.com/china-floating-solar-farm-coal-mine-renewable-energy-2018-1?r=UK) Datong, China’s “coal capital” is seeking to put its coal reserves to better use: producing hydrogen for use in emissions-free hydrogen-powered vehicles and electricity storage.(http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201908/25/WS5d6239d5a310cf3e35567b9b.html)
Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Zhao Lijian reported in July 2022 that:
By the end of last month, the share of coal-fired power in China’s installed power capacity dropped to a historic low of under 50 percent; total emissions of the coal-fired power industries reduced by nearly 90 percent over a decade; coal consumption by power generation units has been slashed, saving over 700 million tonnes of raw coal over the past decade. (https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2511_665403/202207/t20220728_10729508.html)
The drop in coal consumption has already had a noticeable impact in the big cities. The New York Times observed that, in the period from 2014 to 2018, Chinese cities cut concentrations of atmospheric fine particulates by an average of 34 percent.(https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/upshot/china-pollution-environment-longer-lives.html) Beijing in the 1990s was among the most polluted cities in the world, but due to a decade-long ‘war on pollution’, its air quality index has improved by 50 percent.(https://aqli.epic.uchicago.edu/news/pollution-in-beijing-is-down-by-half-since-the-last-olympics-adding-four-years-onto-lives/) In 2019, Beijing dropped out of the list of the 200 most-polluted cities.(https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-pollution-beijing/beijing-set-to-exit-list-of-worlds-top-200-most-polluted-cities-data-idUSKCN1VX05Z) Writing in 2012, Martin Jacques talks about China having 16 of the world’s 20 worst-polluted cities. A decade later, only two Chinese cities are on the list. (https://www.hindustantimes.com/environment/these-are-20-most-polluted-cities-in-the-world-rajasthan-city-tops-the-list-101647954069826.html)
Although it will take China many more years to completely phase out coal, it has already announced that it will not finance any new coal-fired power plants abroad. Meanwhile, US-based analysts KJ Noh and Michael Wong note that the bulk of China’s coal plants are now “advanced supercritical or ultra-supercritical plants, which means they are much more efficient and cleaner than many of the industrial-era legacy plants of the US”.(https://asiatimes.com/2021/11/china-offers-solutions-to-climate-change/)
While reducing its use of coal, China is rapidly becoming the first “renewable energy superpower”,(https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2019/01/11/china-renewable-energy-superpower/?sh=d00df01745a2) accounting for 46 percent of new solar and wind power generating capacity in 2021.(https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/06/state-of-renewable-energy-2022/) International energy analyst Tim Buckley observes that China is the world leader in “wind and solar installation, in wind and solar manufacturing, in electric vehicle production, in batteries, in hydro, in nuclear, in ground heat pumps, in grid transmission and distribution, and in green hydrogen.” In summary, “they literally lead the world in every zero-emissions technology today.”(https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/what-if-china-saved-the-world-and-nobody-noticed-20220818-p5bavz.html)
China is responsible for around a third of global renewable energy investment, and 28 percent of its electricity is already generated from renewable sources (compared to 20 percent for the US).(https://www.grid.news/story/global/2022/08/17/china-is-beating-the-us-in-clean-energy-can-america-catch-up-the-race-in-five-charts/) Out of 12.7 million jobs in the renewables industry worldwide, 42 percent (over five million) are in China.(https://english.news.cn/20220922/45a980ba9b5241699694b1f29d1f951e/c.html) The Chinese government has set itself the target of getting renewable energy sources (including solar, wind, nuclear and hydropower) to 33 percent of its total energy mix by 2025.(https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/china-says-third-electricity-will-come-renewables-by-2025-2022-06-01/)Non-fossil energy sources are set to supply 50% of China’s electric power generation by 2030. (https://www.brookings.edu/2018/05/18/utility-of-renewable-energy-in-chinas-low-carbon-transition/)
Quoted from "The east is still red".
parenti quote
In the United States, for over a hundred years, the ruling interests tirelessly propagated anticommunism among the populace, until it became more like a religious orthodoxy than a political analysis. During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.
- Michael Parenti