Chinese Economy Collapsing
Chinese Economy Collapsing
142 comments
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Lol at the UK just making shit up.
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Making shit up and still getting beaten by the "lazy" French and Italians.
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UK's books are in the black again because they ran out of red ink
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Stocks in left over black ink from all those old inkjet printers found in landfill sites increase GDP by 4pts this year as it's revealed that adding a bit of water brings then back to liquid.
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Turmoil in Britain this week as Nestlé refuses to let the British use water for bathing, choosing instead to sell Britain's waterways to the highest bidder—second-hand ink manufacturers. The price increase of Nestlé shares raise GDP another 3pts.
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What's the source for this post?
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https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDP_RPCH@WEO/OEMDC/ADVEC/WEOWORLD
Even the IMF puts China at 4.2 in Q3 (Oct 2023).
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I think when the highest quality most respected China collapse preachers say collapse, they mean entering a Japan style stagnation. I'm not sure, because that would require me to consume a lot of China collapse preacher content, but I think that's how they can justify the narrative across different levels of seriousness.
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If China can manage to turn its industries and markets to an internal production/consumption model and reduce its reliance on being an export economy, it would be much better off even without the massive growth. Growth will have to stop at some point, and the focus will be on stability, since China hasn't made any indications it'll try to fuel growth through imperialism like western economies have. Japan style stagnation would be not so terrible if your society is socialist.
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respected China collapse preachers
I assume this is read in the same way as "feminist ISIS member".
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If you hold that graph up to your ear, you can actually hear the liberals going "yes but actually..."
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I did and they sent me this WSJ article
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"How will the Free Market work if you don't assure the largest players that they'll be able to socialize their losses?! Read BASIC ECONOMICS!"
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Shoot, I don't have it offhand but you should send the Ben Norton video back, where he talked about how China is letting their property sector fail in order to shift their economy to being focused on green energy and tech.
As well, he mentions how morally corrupt it is to use property as an investment and how shifting where your investments are is actually a better idea.
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But at what cooooost
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yeah so many propagandists point to the slow down in economic growth from "socialist god" levels to "economic miracle" levels and are like china is falling apart they are due for a depression any day
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Gotta have a reason to keep those Gordon Chang books on the shelf.
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Lmao at Germany. Imagine letting America completely demolish your economy like this and still following them around like a dog. "Um it was probably Polish revanchist terrorists or something that blew up the pipeline, definitely not the one actor in the vicinity that had the means and motive to do it."
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My fav part is how members of parliament in Germany asked to see the details on the Nord Stream investigation at one point, and the government was like no we can't make this public because it'll negatively affect our security. 🤡
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Tbf China’s economy is less decayed (there’s less surplus capital), but that’s not a point for capitalism.
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As an aside - anyone know what’s going on in Germany? I was under the impression they were doing things pretty well over there
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Much of German economy was supported by farming and manufacturing sectors. These were predicated on getting cheap energy from Russia to stay competitive. At the start of the war, German government provided subsidies to offset the shock of energy prices shooting up. The idea was that Russian economy would collapse quickly due to western sanctions, and then everything would go back to normal.
Now that subsidies are running out, Germany can't compete with manufacturing in places like China where there energy is much cheaper, and farmers are literally coming out with pitchforks because they can't make ends meet.
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Very interesting. Thank you for the response! I’m a somewhat ignorant westerner so I always think of Germany as being very much a high end manufacturing and sciences based country - making fairly complex industrial machinery and precision tools and such. I didn’t know they relied on Russia so heavily, though I suppose it makes sense given its location.
Unfortunate that they didn’t take some notes from Frances book and get heavy into Nuclear.
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One data point doesn't make a trend. The Chinese economy isn't collapsed, but the rate of growth of GDP for China has been negative (rate of growth, it's still positive growth) since at least 2012 from what I can see. The US rate of growth is fairly static over the same time (a slightly positive rate of growth, but not much), but about half the value of China's.
Don't cherry pick data. It's not useful.
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Don't cherry pick data. It's not useful.
You're the one doing mental gymnastics here. "Oh yeah the Chinese economy is growing every year but it's not GROWING growing, you see if you jumble the numbers a bit more you can actually get a negative number" fuck off dude.
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using differential equations to prove China is failing lol
also, a lower % one year than the year before could also indicate relatively stable absolute levels of growth
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Someone please show me the snap and jerk of the Chinese economy that's the only way we can be sure
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I'm not jumbling numbers. Just look at a chart of GDP over time, or easier GDP change over time. It's easy to see. I'm not saying China is collapsing, but the growth is slowing. There's no need to make things up. It's still growing faster than almost anyone else.
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Comparing the most recently available GDP growth data for one year across multiple major economies : cherry picking
Wondering why data from several decades ago (during the height of rapid massive industrialization that countries tend to only ever do once in their entire history) wasn’t included : not cherry picking
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That's only a problem for those who demand exponential growth. And your assumptions are based on the unsustainable model of western imperialism; as China implements it's green energy, transport, automated agriculture, and housing policies, those sectors won't need to keep 'growing' as they do in capitalist states to prop up GDP. Even if it's right that if the slowing rate of growth leads to a net GDP shrinkage, it doesn't portend collapse.
That's not counting the effect of BRICS+ and the BRI on interpreting GDP. You don't need such a high GDP when you cooperate with your neighbours, when your GDP isn't a measure of how much you bully your neighbours and oppress your foreign and domestic workforce.
Many have repeatedly and outstandingly wrongly claimed either bluntly or in what they think is 'clever' subtleness that China is about to collapse. Do you really want to be in that crowd when the music stops?
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That's only a problem for those who demand exponential growth.
Dude, GDP only matters for that. I'm not the one who started talking about GDP. Either this thread is useless because the measure (GDP) is useless, or it's perfectly fine to talk about the context of what the threads about. Either way, it's the OP you should complain about.
Anyway, China's GDP is growing at about double the US's. It doesn't matter though, right? It's growing at a negative rate, but it's still growing faster than almost anyone else, because China('s government) cares about GDP, even though GDP doesn't help the average person.
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Even the most orthodox of economists almost universally agree that growth diminishes as a country becomes more developed since the low hanging fruit of development is exhausted and more capital and resources are necessary for the same amounts of growth.
China's growth rate trending down over time is no more an indication of any sort of stagnation or collapse than one year of growth is an indication of economic strength.
Ironically you're not doing substantially less cherry picking than you're accusing OP of by engaging in shallow single factor analysis.
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This is exactly what I'm saying. The growth is coming to a more reasonable level. It's steadily trended down for years now, and will likely end up near US levels if I had to guess.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263616/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-china/
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Doesn't the US count things like the excessive healthcare costs into its GDP?
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This is literally the GDP growth rate. I don’t think you know what you are talking about, but please point us to a definition of the indicator you are talking about as well as to the comparison by country.
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I think they're comparing the 2nd derivative of GDP; the growth rate is the 1st derivative.
The claim is roughly:
The US is growing slowly, but doing so at a consistent pace. It will keep growing 2% indefinitely.
China is growing faster now, but the rate is slowing year over year. They will grow 5% this year, 4% next year,... The implication is that they'll eventually settle domewhere below the US for (preferred boogeyman reason)
Of course the premise is low value speculation, but the math concepts can be parsed.
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It's 1 year. The rate at which it's growing is negative. If the trend continues it goes below US levels fairly soon, though it's GDP so who cares.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263616/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-china/
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The criteria for the GDP measure changed in 2009 which put a heavier weight on R&D capitalization. This makes it an unfair comparison since China economy is mostly manufacturing-based. The fact that their growth rate is so high despite this is very notable.
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A screenshot of a Twitter post without any context from an account well known to simp for China
Meanwhile their housing market, which they use as a massive investment vehicle, crumbles further.
Who is Xu Juayin?
Who is Jack Ma?
Guess nobody.
edit: Chinese bots are TRIGGERED.
lmfao shut the fuck up all of you.
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Is the IMF simping for China? Because they placed China at 4.2 in Q3 2023 and US at 1.5
I hope you're not getting your information from a bunch of clickbait YouTubers, who exaggerate the importance of real estate to the overall Chinese economy for a headline.
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That still shows this post is inflated with no source to support it.
The other guy replied with literally a YouTube video that you're accusing me of getting my information from. Ironic. I don't watch YouTube.
The real estate is important in China lol like nobody is exaggerating it? They are genuinely having a real estate problem like the rest of the world seems to also have. Why are you discounting that truth?
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what the heck, that was 80%, I thought I read 8%?? That is so awful.
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Get'em boys! 🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖 -
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ew, who let the racist reddit goober in
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A screenshot of a Twitter post without any context from an account well known to simp for China
dumb and off topic who cares
Meanwhile their housing market, which they use as a massive investment vehicle, crumbles further.
legit tho. it's a problem China is absolutely dealing with. the gdp for 2023 was still 5.2% even though gdp is stupid.
Who is Xu Juayin? Who is Jack Ma?
i'm too lazy to do an internet search but iirc Jack Ma is a rich asshole
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Who is Xu Juayin?
Who is Jack Ma?
Guess nobody.
you've guessed correctly, now can you please fuck off
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argue the facts or cry you chose to cry
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I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
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Compared to China's population those numbers aren't that insane. They're pretty standard.
China also still uses mostly coal to produce their electricity.
Nothing is that insane here? What am I missing?
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142 comments
If it wasn't collapsing, it wouldn't be in the red.
checkmate tankies
the higher they climb the faster they fall! got'em