2y ago

Gazans forced to drink dirty, salty water as the fuel needed to run water systems runs out

edition.cnn.com

Gazans forced to drink dirty, salty water as the fuel needed to run water systems runs out | CNN

Hamas’ brutal attacks in Israel on October 7 killed at least 1,400 people and the group took more than 200 hostages, according to Israeli authorities. In the wake of the assault, Israel launched an aerial bombardment of Gaza that Palestinian health officials say has killed more than 5,000 people. Israel also announced a “complete siege” on the enclave, withholding vital supplies of water, food and fuel.

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The news just said that Israel is withholding fuel as Hamas might use it.
Next will be we’re withholding food as Hamas might eat some.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. What Hamas did was terrible, but Israel has done is no better.
The fact that for one side in a war collateral damage is acceptable is fucking disgusting and it makes me ashamed to be a human.
I condemned my own country (UK) when we helped invade Afghanistan and Iraq and murdered civilians.
- The news just said that Israel is withholding fuel as Hamas might use it.
  They left out the part where Israel is committing ethnic cleansing out in the open.
  
  That’s because Israel is the only nation on Earth seemingly except from criticism, else you’re labelled an anti-Semite.
- If we follow Israeli logic, we would have to deny all of Israel food, water and medicine, because their government is committing war crimes and acts of terrorism.
  That would be totally absurd.
  But somehow, our western leaders find this logic acceptable when applied to Palestinians.
  
  Almost all western leaders have condemned Israel blocking vital supplies and the forced indiscriminate expulsion of civilians from north Gaza, as far as I know. Just like they condemn the atrocities of indiscriminate murder and kidnapping of civilians committed by Hamas. International aid is still being sent to Palestine, except where Israel blocks it. And the international community rightfully complains that this blockade is not in accordance with humanitarian laws and applies diplomatic pressure to get it through.
  "The West" is neither accepting Israels logic blindly, nor does it excuse Hamas transgressions. But it mostly does it with words for fear of escalation. This also applies to nearby Arabian countries, by the way. Egypt refuses to accept Palestinian refugees for fear of Hamas establishing a base in Egypt Sinai and firing rockets from there, which would risk a much larger conflict. Nobody except Hamas, Hisbollah and Iran - and Russia, because it distracts from Ukraine - wants the conflict to escalate.
- I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. What Hamas did was terrible, but Israel has done is no better.
  of course not. this conflict will only end if both (!!) sides stop this shit. Both sides have to accept the other one as humans, as independent states, their different religions, all that stuff. Without that there will be no peace, only more death on both sides.
  
  You're making it sound as if the Israeli government and Hamas have equal power, which is ridiculously wrong. Though officially in charge, Hamas has almost no authority to govern Palestine or otherwise do anything except commit atrocities against civilians.
  Israel has the power to stop the oppression and genocide of Palestinians almost immediately and everything would become much more peaceful in a matter of months, maybe even weeks.
  They won't do that though, since they're governed by genocidal fascists emulating apartheid South Africa, some of whom won't even accept the existence of a Palestinian people.
  
  So... Let's see, like they're doing in the West Bank? So tell me why there are pogroms going on there?
  
  From wikipedia on Hamas charter:
  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
And fucking zionist assholes are given the time of day to say that Palestinians are not animals because comparing them to animals would be an insult to animals. Fucking disgraceful. I know Hamas did some unspeakably terrible and should be punished for them, but fucking oppressing the people of Palestine and treat them to sub human conditions over decades only to get mad and offended that they got fed up with your shit only to treat them even less tells so much about your upbringing and your mental state.
Sorry, had to rant.
- Yes but at the same time. The exact same people were also supported by other countries. What did they do with that support? They made weapons from them. New waterpipes? New attack rocket.
  
  I mean, ya turns out your options are actually trying to live together with the people (challenge level IMPOSSIBLE with the nationalists and the ~~white~~ Jewish power party), or genocide. what would you do to the things you describe as less than animals?
  
  You are just calling out effect and ignoring the cause. This isn't just a now war, this is a 70 year war
how much fuel is hamas hoarding right now?
- I'm guessing you mean Hamas' military branch? Because it's the Hamas Government that is running out of fuel, plus all the UNRWA schools and NGO hospitals.
  So even if Hamas' military has fuel, It's not enough for 2 million people, so it doesn't matter.
  This siege is preventing basic goods from entering to innocent civilians. Trying to get people to look away is really lame.
  
  It's 500,000 liters. You don't just get to say that doesn't matter. Especially when the fuel the UN brought in was also stolen by Hamas. If Hamas is stealing and hoarding all the fuel, then they do carry the blame for the lack of fuel. What good is it doing anyone if everything there will just be stolen by Hamas and then used for further attacks?
  
  Just like people don’t say that rebel israeli soldiers acting illegally committed whatever atrocities and just say it was israel (or even worse the jewish people) i do not make the distinction between the terrorists sub divisions.
  
  So in competent governments, the Civilian government controls the military. So how much fuel is Hamas hoarding.
- That's a hell of a what about ism.
  Putting pressure on the population like this, is putting pressure on the government to spend critical resources, to make them less capable of fighting a war. It is a valid, and historically often used, siege strategy.
  The main point, is the civilians in Gaza are trapped, they're not allowed to leave, they don't have water, they don't have power to make water, they are suffering. That's the takeaway, ending the suffering should be the goal.
  Even if Hamas gave up all of their fuel reserves, which the reserving for the ground assault they've been told is coming, even if they gave up all of their fuel, the siege would not be ended, and the civilians would still not have water. It might be delayed by a day. But it doesn't change the situation that exists right now
  
  Steal the fuel from the terrorists, problem solved
- The agency, known as UNRWA, posted its warning on social media on Tuesday. The Israel Defense Forces reposted it and said that Hamas militants have more than 500,000 litres of fuel in tanks inside besieged Gaza.
  
  That doesn't sound a lot tbh... If you calculate with 2M people there, it's just 0.25 litres per person. I don't think that would be sufficient to filter vast amounts of water.
  
  Why would anyone believe their estimates? They've been dropping bombs on civilian houses claiming they're havens for terrorists and didn't even see an attack that appears to have been prepared for completely out in the open. Their vaunted intelligence services seem to be more the result of a good branding campaign than actual competence.
Why don't paltestinians work with Israel to get rid of Hamas ASAP?
- Why don't Palestinians work with their oppressor who tortures them in prison and puts up checkpoints to prevent them from reaching schools and kills them indiscriminately? Gosh I don't know. What do you think?
- Because the current Israeli government hasn't wanted to get rid of Hamas. They've been using Hamas to weaken the more moderate Palestinian Authority. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
- This is a difficult socioeconomic problem. The majority of the Palestinians in the Gaza strip are under 18. They've lived a life of nothing but oppression. For the vast majority of people there now, this is the only life they've known. And for the adults, they saw a more conciliatory government not give them the life they want.
  So within living memory of the population, Hamas won the popular vote, the Palestinian authority was setting up for coup inside of the Gaza strip, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_conflict
  And since that coup attempt, there have been no elections in the Gaza strip.
  Even presupposing the majority of the children in Gaza wanted to overthrow Hamas, it's a collective action problem, how many of them are willing to throw their lives away to affect a political change, when they see the real threat as an external one.
  Historically, religious fundamentalists thrive in adverse conditions. When the population loses all hope, religion tends to step in, and extreme religion tends to dominate.
  Being realistic, the first step to removing Hamas support is giving the population better options. Economic options, education options, religious freedom options. And that's going to require a lot of work that isn't military as the ground work
- I think how they’re murdering Palestinian children with blind disregard should tell you their opinion on the palestinian people.
  Israel doesn’t care about them, they treat Gaza like a house they wanna move into a Palestinians like an infestation.
  
  I mean Hamas also does that. Israeli Arabs are imo objectively treated better by Israel than Palestinians by Hamas, despite the fact that they're also not treated that well.
  
  Had that been the case they would just level the whole thing and make a new parking lot. You severely underestimate military power Israel poses.
- You've got real "Why didn't all the colonised countries rise up against their European colonisers" vibes...
  Do you believe they didn't rise up because they're genetically inferior? That they deserved suffering and oppression?
  
  Uh... they did rise up??? Hence why america actually exists.
- Because Hamas is the only organization fighting Israel, or the only one that matters. So given that Israel has no interest in peace, Hamas is their best bet at getting anything done. Remember: The West Bank doesn't have Hamas, and there are currently honest to God pogroms going on there.
- Better question, why did Netanyahu fund Hamas?
- Yeah man, they should pull their bootstraps up and just get rid of them man. Just do it. How hard can it be??
- Why don't the Palestinians work with Isn'trael to get defanged and become at the mercy of the IDF? That should end them ASAP!
- Because Israel legitimized Hamas, giving them access to external funding and other political rights, so they could ensure less radical non-terrorist groups wouldn't gain support
  Israel's current administration wants Hamas to be the Palestinian political leaders, because Hamas are terrorists with hardliner demands and a hard on for martyrdom... They're the worst way to actually accomplish anything politically
- How?
  
  Kidnap them. Israel would gladly pay 10k$ for each one of them.
*Forgot the fact that Hamas has literal tons of fuel being used for their war crimes (yes shooting rockets against civilian cities without a clear threatening target is a war crime)
Israel bringing in fuel will be used for rockets and war. Why should they. The only reasonable way for fuel to be actually used for hospitals is if the UN or some other natural party escorts that fuel, preventing Hamas terrorists from stealing it.
- Pretty sure hamas also stole fuel that was part of the aid sent in.
- Supposedly the UN asked, but Israel said to ask Hamas for theirs
  
  Hamas has over a million liters stockpiled, and is literally the government there, so yeah. They should.
- Israel is not handing fuel to these hospitals either... what does that tell us?
  
  A) is it the responsibility of a foreign neighbor or the running government to handle an emergency situation? By the way, the running government is Hamas.
  B) how exactly would Israel give those hospitals fuel? They'll drive down gaza boulevard with a fuel truck and just give it to the hospital? Without kidnapped drivers and stolen fuel by Hamas? Even if they did manage a way for the fuel to reach the hospital - Hamas is governing Gaza, and will steal (at least some) of that fuel to fund their war against Israel. Hence Israel has 0 incentive or responsibility to give fuel when it'll come around to bite them in the ass when it'll be used to power rockets.

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