Legalized bribery

The tax system is so complicated, most people can’t handle navigating it on their own. Most people have jobs where taxes are automatically removed from pay checks and sent to both state and federal tax agencies. However, that amount is just an estimate and once a year (or quarter) you need to file paperwork to confirm whether you over or underpaid and then you either get a rebate (without interest), or you’ll need to send in a payment to make up the difference. That paperwork has been lobbied to remain as complicated as possible so that companies like Intuit can provide services that tax payers find useful and continue to pay for. This is more complicated for business owners, both big and small.

Well, in my opinion this will be a good platform for American progressives to run on: make taxes less complicated by getting rid of middle men.
- This will absolutely 10000% never happen as long as lobbying exists in my opinion.
  
  There is nothing wrong with lobbying…. There are lobbies for woman’s rights, black rights, all sorts of good causes have lobbies.
  The politicians just bend over for corporate lobbies. Very important distinction. I think what would fit your argument better is will never happen as long as citizens United exists.
  
  Any paid lobbying is bribery. Legislators should raise people's opinion who voted them in and act as representative, not say what others pay them to say.
  I can't believe it is legal in so many countries. Apparently though it seems more problematic in the US but European countries aren't immune either.
  
  I mean someone has to pay the lobbiests. The National Organization for women pays lawyers to write laws for them to present to congress, through lobbiests who are also paid. You want feminist groups who are allowed to write feminist laws and present them to congress right? You want someone to advocate for laws you want right? That's lobbying?
  Citizens united is what you guys are thinking of. The one where corporations can donate infinite money to politicians? So when a corporate lobby brings anti-feminist legislation, they then contribute lots of money to the politician they are lobbying. And magically the politican ignores their voters and sides with the anti-feminist pro corporate law. That's citizens united. It's not a problem with lobbying. You have a problem with corporate lobbys not womans rights lobbys right? You have a problem with your representatives favoring corporate lobbys because they get infinite money throught.... DRUM ROLL..... Citizens united.
  I really hope this helps.
  
  When we were legalizing cannabis in Maine the local growers had to form a lobby to fight against the out of state corporate growers who also had a powerful lobby. Banning lobbying doesn't help it just takes away peoples voices. Lobbying is just a group of people pooling resources to enact common legislation or political goals. It's an important part of the political process people neglect. and it's been diluted by money. Don't need to dilute it further with misinformation.
  
  and it's been diluted by money
  That's why they said "any paid lobbying is bribery". While anyone can sign a petition to your representative and that's technically also lobbying, what we're talking about here is not that. In a democracy, every person gets their voice heard. With lobbying, only the dollar speaks.
  
  Campaign contributions do not equal lobbying. You are talking about unlimited campaign contributions. And calling it lobbying: I am pointing this out because your lack of civic education has brought a goddamn dictatorship upon this country
  
  Who is talking about campaign contributions? That is a whole other issue. I'm talking about the revolving door between politics and private industry, about how you need personal connections to get the ear of politicians and these connections can be bought, and how politicians gleefully accept laundered bribes from private interest groups. There are, of course, lobbying groups doing good (like some NGOs or advocacy groups), but the system of lobbying itself is deeply flawed. But I guess that's sorta inevitable under capitalism.
  I'm not even from the US, just watching in horror as the dominant global superpower turns to open, unapologetic fascism. So continue belittling my lack of civic education if you must, but I'm afraid I'm more informed about your political process than a majority of your electorate. I wish I didn't have to be.
  
  For me, it’s just a really simple piece of context in the original post. Intuit, lobbied against the legislation for years and failed. The opposing lobby won, and we got free taxes. So why are you talking about lobby’s when clearly in the context of this post, they succeeded in bringing us good legislation. Which was reversed by a dictator taking a bribe. I do appreciate your interest in engagement in US politics. I just really need to point this fact out because it is annoying.
  
  I didn’t even catch the last sentence. OK you’re not from the US and that makes sense. You have a better understanding of US politics the most US citizens. I for one I’m ashamed of that, but you do not have a full grasp of US politics or the history behind them or the processes we use and why we use them. Mixing up words and demonizing normal shit is how we got here
  
  The post we’re commenting other states two things. They lobbied against it for years(and failed).
  They donated $1 million to the inauguration dinner and more than likely the campaign to elect Trump…. And that beat out their lobbying investment: lobbying a part of democracy. Unlimited political contributions to pay to manipulate lobbying is undemocratic.
  My point is you guys missed the whole point of the meme that we’re discussing under? Paid lobbying is a real job. Funneling money to lawmakers is not, there is nothing wrong with a paid lobbyist because they exist outside of corporate interests.
  
  There needs to be more citizen lobbying. What really needs to happen is citizens organizing, pooling their money, and hiring lobbyists, just like big corporations do.
  
  A look at the Forbes Fortune500 should point out why that's basically impossible.
  Just looking at the top one, Walmart, not even considering anyone else on this list, their raw profit in 2024 after all expenses and payrolls and everything was
  $15,511,000,000.00
  Amazon in the #2 spot made almost double that. Remember this isn't revenue, this is profit, this is extra money after all normal expenses are paid.
  If I pulled together every single person I've ever met in my life, regardless of their opinion of me, and we all donated all the money we had ever made in our lives, we might approach a tenth of Walmart's 2024 profits.
  The wealth inequality gap in America is large enough that it is actually difficult to wrap your head around. The difference between a million dollars and a billion dollars is about a billion dollars - to be exact, you'll need 999 million more dollars to reach it after you have your first million in the bank. Fighting corporate money with citizens' money is not only wasteful but impossible.
  
  Now much of that money do they spend on lobbyists?
  
  You and I will never know, but it could be up to that amount without even impacting daily activities.
  
  Working within a corrupt system often serves to more deeply entrench that system.

Pay to file and get charged if we don't pay the amount that the IRS knows that we owe.

They literally know how much we owe but make us pay a private company to calculate that number and then charge us if that private company didn't help us get the right number.

So the private company offers more "protection" and "tax experts" they charge us more for and make their "calculator" a little less helpful every year so you feel like you need the "tax expert" AI chat to help you avoid a charge.

Capitalism is the most efficient system. CAPITALISM IS THE MOST EFFICIENT SYSTEM.

It's technically free to file federal and the tax prep companies must offer this by law. But there are tons of loopholes to this to the point that many people pay to file even when they don't have to.

State taxes are always charged if they need to be filed. It's free in some states but not a lot and there is no requirement on most states for how much the tax prep software charges for that.

Real talk: why do we have to 'file taxes' at all in 2025?

Don't we have computers that should be automating taxes?

Because companies lobby Congress to prohibit major IRS restructuring and spending. If the IRS had auto filing and a bigger budget, it would make more money than ever before.
The IRS could go after and audit rich people while the common person just gets a check in the mall from their returns. Maybe even no check, as the returns are only from miscalculations by the federal system, which is due to a bad system in place.
We need a federal tax system in the US. No one likes paying taxes but we do. The IRS is the center of that for the Feds. And the Republicans gut it because it's easy to say "I'll lower your taxes" but not solve where the money comes from.
- returns are only from miscalculations by the federal system,
  Well, not really. More like incomplete calculations, erring on the side of overpayment because people are generally extra upset if they have to pay in at the end of the year, even if they technically made more money as a result. People are used to and kind of ignore the tax portion of the paycheck they never get, but they feel the taxation of actually making an active payment. So people get happy about the zero interest loan they give to the government because in the moment it feels like "free money"
  My employer has to do withholding without knowledge of other potential household income, credits, or deductions, though that last is pretty much given for everyone given how high the standard deduction is now.
thats always my first thought when this subject comes up.

No. You can file your taxes for free. And, if you ever pay to file your taxes, you're not paying the government, you're paying for tax preparation software or for a tax professional to do your taxes for you.

But! Even if your tax situation is very simple, filing your taxes on your own is difficult. In Europe, the government sends you a form with what they think you owe based on all the information they have on you. If you agree with the calculation, you just send the form back and either pay or receive a refund.

In the US your employer gives you some sheets of paper with some values on it. Your bank gives you some different forms. And so-on. When it's tax time, you gather up all that paper, hope you have it all, try to remember what forms you need and if you have them, and then painstakingly try to copy the right values from the W-2, 1099-INT, and so on into the right boxes on form 1040, 1040 Schedule 1, 1040 Schedule 2, 1040 Schedule H, 1095-A, and so on. Then, you try to do the calculations where it says to multiply the value from 1040 row 43 by the correct value in table A9. A9 has different values depending on how many dependants you have, and if you're filing jointly or alone.

Basically, it's doable on your own, especially if you have a fairly standard / simple tax situation. But, it's easy to make a mistake along the way. If you ever need an explanation about what you're supposed to do, that information exists, but it's in accountanteze, and it often refers to about 5 other IRS publications that just complicate things further. And, when you're dealing with thousands of dollars, a mistake could be really costly. So, most people buy a copy of TurboTax every year for $30, which somehow turns into $60 by the time you're actually ready to file because the $30 version only covers people in situation X, and since you have Y you need to upgrade.

TurboTax then takes $1 out of the $60 you paid them, and goes to Washington with that to lobby politicians to keep the tax code complicated so that people need to buy a new TurboTax every year. (Oh yeah, and things change just enough that every year you need to buy the latest software to file your taxes.)

Australia prefills all the information from employers, banks, share market registers so most people can log onto the government website, go to their tax account and accept the prefilled form
- Yeah, most places do. AFAIK it's just Canada and the US that don't.
- Here in the UK I have never had to file taxes. It's all done as PAYE. Whatever software your employer uses will work out how much you owe via your tax code each pay packet and it's auto deducted. It's only self employed people (maybe other types of earner, I wouldn't know, I'm just a waged employee) who have to submit their tax forms. It's weird other countries aren't doing it this way.
In Europe, the government sends you a form with what they think you owe based on all the information they have on you. If you agree with the calculation, you just send the form back and either pay or receive a refund.
That's not true everywhere in Europe
- No? Where don't they do that? Is what they have similar to the terrible US system?

I mean, yes, because if they catch you evading taxes then they get a free slave for the term of your incarceration. To them it's a win-win.

oh shit yeah, theres that too.
beacon of democracy.

Oh good I'm not the only one who doesn't understand.

No they just want us to do our part by both paying taxes to the government and paying corporations that pay the government. All makes sense in a tidy corporofascisit system.

Imagine having to pay to give the government money. I had to open this to confirm what I was reading.

Yeah I figured the Canadian system we have was as bad as the US’s but apparently not. Having to pay to file is wild

No, and no. It is typically more convenient to pay to file taxes though. These companies hand hold you through the process and often have some protection for you if you get audited.

That said, this still means the government needs to make things easier for everyone. You shouldn't feel like you need help to just file a standard tax return if all you do is have a regular job, no investments, and no deductions. Which is something like half of the US.