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Atheism @lemmy.world
lionkoy5555 @lemmy.world

What's the appropriate explanation for the supernatural (holy spirit, miracles, etc.) if there's no god?

Maybe it's too much to say people who experienced this stuff are delusional? I know a lot of them personally and they live a normal life, but they keep saying testimonies about holy experience, that God talks to them etc.

27 comments

  • The word you're looking for is "coincidence." Humans are literally pattern recognition machines; we'll see patterns in random noise if we look long enough. People finding meaning in patterns they see and can't explain is pretty natural. It becomes problematic, though, when we do have explanations for things and those explanations are ignored.

  • Most people have internal monologues.

    It's how we think things through, and usually the voice we hear, is our own. Which makes sense, because we can make it say whatever we like simply by thinking it.

    But we often hear other peoples voices, too. Most common is probably the voice of a parent. You might imagine how they'll sound when they scold you, if you think about doing something they won't like.

    It's really not that weird that religious people claim to "hear" god. In the exact same way most people imagine what others would say in response to something they might say or do, the religious imagine how god or jesus might react.

    But really, they're just hearing their own mind frame their own thoughts in the way they picture that their religious icons might react to their thoughts and actions.

    It's not really a higher power speaking to them. They're just interpreting the way the human mind works as supernatural, because their upbringing and belief system has them constantly asking themselves "what would god have me do" the same way we all ask "what would my friends and family have me do".

    There's really no way to dispel this illusion, except by explaining internal monologues, and giving them time to think about it. You might also have the religious compare notes on what "god" is telling them, untill they dee how each of them hear whatever they would themselves imagine god would say. But this is something they really don't like doing.

  • Clark's third Law, basically.

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

    replace "advanced technology" with "poorly understood natural phenomena", and you have it.

    Specifically of miracles- You assume they actually happened. Jesus almost certainly did not heal the sick, and Lazarus almost certainly did not return from the dead. Keep in mind the gospels were written 50+ years after jesus's death, probably as the first generation of people were dying off, or more likely, the second generation.

    As for modern miracles, none seem to have actually happened, or that prayer/divine intervention is the explanation given despite other things contributing to the "miracle". (often cited example: praying for positive medical outcomes and going to the doctor. people will thank their god for the positive outcome, even though it was the doctor's skill, knowledge and wisdom that caused it.)

    Or like praying for a job while putting in the hard work to get a good job.

    As for the euphoric experiences of the holy spirit coming down. it's basically a sort of mass hypnosis. through communal worship and such, people are put into a suggestible state. (or at least a few are,) You can even put yourself into that state. Then, the person leading the affair makes all kinds of suggestions and you just kind of go with it. This is not to say that the experience of euphoria is any less meaningful; or that the leaders are some how malicious and exploitive. (well, I'd say they are, but that's a different matter.)

    Other "miracles" either didn't happen or just misunderstood an interpreted as something else. (The star guiding the 3 wise men would have been seen by literally everyone in the region, for example. They came a long distance, possibly from persia. even if there was something there... following it to a house is ridiculous.)

    For a less loaded example, I work as a manager in contract security. i had an employee of the sort that believed ghosts were real. This belief led him to ascribe supernatural things to something that wasn't supernatural at all. Specifically, on his late-night rounds, there was a door that would keep closing on him. (it was a fire door being held open by the electromagnetic door holders. The EM holders shut off when the fire alarm is triggered.)

    Turns out that it was a faulty door holder. But he was so very convinced that a ghost was closing it on him, so he didn't put it in his reports or notify maintenance peeps. Didn't even really bother to look into it. he'd just put the door back and go on his way.

    The thing was, the magnet was old and it was loosing it's strength- it was just strong enough to hold the door with nothing going on, and it kept closing on him specifically because as he walked through, his wake would push on it and cause it to break free. It was an easy fix- the door holder was replaced and they wanted me to talk to the guy because apparently it was like that for months or more, but he knew it was happening.

    The thing with religion is that it's designed to bypass your rational mind and gives you the easy answer. It's designed to make you stupid so that you don't get the real answer. It's designed that way because when you get the real answer, you usually stop paying your dues.

27 comments