Remember kids: Canonical is not your friend.

Next time, Gort will install Debian and save himself the trouble

I wish I could have it as easy as Gort. I miss my debian but I want that ZFS built into my kernel.
- There is so many distros that are just ubuntu without snaps, is just a matter of picking one of them
- Check out the kernel packages from Proxmox, they build ZFS into a debian kernel.
- You're looking for Gentoo.
- Well, you won't have that much longer.
The current most popular distribution is MX Linux (based on Debian Stable), which I use. You certainly don't have to, but I would say least start with a distro that respects you and adheres to FOSS standards...
Edit: context

Honestly, instead of trying to remove Snap from Ubuntu, I'd just install another distro (PopOS for example is mostly like Ubuntu but with Flatpak instead of Snap)

Oh, is there a point using PopOS even if I replace the WM?
- Pop is great, even without the wm. The app store is top notch, if you're into that sort of thing. Basically it's Ubuntu minus snaps, so slightly more modern Debian, with good flatpak integration making up for all apt's drawbacks. Perfect for the computer you want to be able to use without dealing with out of date packages or rolling release tinkering.
  Even so, the wm is worth taking the time to get familiar with, because it's intuitive enough for a non power user, and you're not going to approach its efficiency in terms of workflow unless you can consistently use several dozen keyboard shortcuts on a more bare bones tiling wm. Anyway, that's my opinion, having used a wide variety of window managers since the 90s.
- Yeah! Has good power management utilities and bonus features. but personally I'd stick to GNOME/Cosmic if you had Pop installed. You miss out on that integration otherwise.
Yeah, switching to Pop! Next time I do any major fucking around.
How about Devuan?
but with Flatpak instead of Snap
Same shit. Install Gentoo.

Installs Ubuntu.
It is Ubuntu.
Gets angry.

Gort is not angry. Gort is calm.

Help me understand. Why would you install a distribution, just to gut what's making it what it is, instead of just getting anything else? Just from Debian derivative perspective, if you hate snaps, why not install something like LMDE Mint, if you need a complete out of the box distro?

I think mainly because a ton of open source software will be tested with Ubuntu, and I don't want another thing that could possibly be the problem when it fails to build on my machine.
- Problem is that by "unsnapping", you deviate from "Ubuntu". You start having to add all sorts of third party packages, and the more that is needed, the more the value of aligning with a well tested baseline diminishes. Notably, Ubuntu declares an intent to make everything snaps, including the kernel and bootloader.
  So it would seem more productive for someone railing against snap to avoid using Ubuntu and avoid bolstering the reputation of something they fundamentally disagree with.
- This is why I often choose an Ubuntu derivative like Pop_OS. Most of the same underlying structure with none of the snaps.

Just use Debian or Linux Mint Debian Edition and call it a day.

Or just use one of the many Ubuntu derivatives that don't force Snap?

I would rather run literally everything in docker than use snaps

"Hang on boss, I have to restart the 'ls' container! Just a jiff!"
I recently tried Ubuntu after many years, needed Docker and it told me to install it as a Snap, I thought, OK, whatever. I'm anything but a newbie, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out where the volumes were actually kept. That was the primary reason to abandon this experiment.
- Sounds crazy. Lol docker is definitely an insane way to run desktop apps, but it's the insane way that I'm comfortable with 😹

Idea: snap installer called crackle that just unpacks everything (relatively) normally. Should be primarily for pop os. Snap, crackle, and pop.

I just started tinkering with Ubuntu a week ago. What's wrong with snap?

- Canonical is doing the same thing Microsoft is doing with Edge - using its dominant position to push its other products and force out competition, and to lock users (and potentially developers) into its own ecosystem.
- and avoid needing to install all of their dependencies locally
  Wait, but doesn't it result in more copies of the dependencies being installed locally because they're duplicated for each application?
- I'll add that the 'pseudo-sandbox' is of some dubious value, as far as I can tell the app declares how much or little sandboxing it wants and the user doesn't really get the opportunity to consent or even know that a snap has full access versus limited access.
  I'll also say that some functionality is broken in snaps (and flatpak). For example I used KeepPassXC browser integration, and then when snap was used instead of native, it broke. A number of extensions broke and the development attitude was everyone pointing fingers everywhere else and ultimately saying "just find a ppa with a browser ok?"
  I'll second the "screw it, I give up on packaging, my app is now a monolithic flatpak, snap, appimage, or docker container" mindset of a lot of developers.
It's a bad, slow and inefficient solution for a problem that is already solved. And because nobody would use their proprietary shit over flatpack, they force the users to use it. Even for things that exist natively in the repositories and would need neither snap nor flatpack.
- Best explanation of snaps and their problems i've ever read.
It’s slow, forced by Canonical, and starts a pointless format war with Flatpack.
- Flatpack isn't without its own quirks and flaws. There is no One True Way. Being open-source, there shouldn't be one.
  It is definitely slow though, mostly on first run.
- I still don't even know what problem snap and flatpak were intended to solve. Just apt or dnf installing from the command line, or even using the distro provided store app, has always been sufficient for me.
This computer idiot would also like to know why snap bad.
- The main reason is that it is completely controlled by Canonical, with no way to add alternative repos.
- For computer idiots it's not bad at all. It mostly just works if you don't mess with it and Canonical relies on it to ship software for Ubuntu. It's one of those you should know what you're doing situations if you're using standard Ubuntu and messing with it. If you remove it, you will have to figure out what's shipped via snap and how to supplant it if you want it working, among other potential headaches.
- I hate it for the refresh nag messages alone.
  The default Firefox in Ubuntu is a snap and I only knew that because due to nagging and having to restart constantly while I was using it and had to learn about snaps and how to install Firefox without them on Ubuntu.
- If something exists in native form, use that. If it doesn't or you want some sandboxing (and there is at least some argument for a containerized version that brings all its needed dependencies, for developers not having to test for every linux for example) there's flatpack or appimage. Snap is just Canonical's proprietary alternative to flatpack. And also worse in basically any aspect. So they shove it down their users throat instead. Even for stuff that would be available natively and should just be installed via the normal package manager. And to make really sure, nobody is avoiding their crap, they also redirect commands, so for example using apt to install your browser automatically redirects your command to snap install...
If snap had another store, eg Fdroid to play store, all would be fine. So that's that!
cuz flatpak better

How many time does Canonical have to do sketchy shit before people catch on? Seriously.

I'm just sitting here having no problem with the few snaps I use

Snaps aren’t bad, Canonical might be but then why use Ubuntu?

$ df -h one billion lines of snaps
This annoys me more than it should!
- When I still used Ubuntu, I had an alias on all my systems/servers
  alias dfh='df -h | grep -v snap'
  This shouldn't be necessary.

Am I wrong for ignoring snaps and just using apt-get still?

Some packages are snaps underneath though. Like firefox.
- Not if you install Firefox from Flatpak. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Just use Linux mint

that only works until you need Lua 5.4 which has conflicting dependencies aaand now im on NixOS
- Couldn't you just install it in a container? Distrobox makes it easy to get something like Fedora which has newer packages.

Could someone ELI5 whats wrong with snaps? I see hate for them all over the place but as an end user with little technical knowledge of linux packaging they seem fine? I can install them and use them, they don't appear to have any anti-FOSS gotchas, so whats the big deal?

I think it's another fine example of Canonical pushing its own products rather than supporting and enhancing existing standards (flatpak and appimage), which people are getting tired of. Also, as I understand it, the snap store itself is proprietary and is therefore controlled by Canonical.
The server isn't open source, so Canonical has the sole ability to control snap distribution. It's also yet another example of Canonical's "Not Invented Here" syndrome, where they constantly reinvent things so they can control it instead of working with the rest of the open source community. They also trick you into using snaps; for example if you explicitly tell it to use apt to install Firefox, it'll install it as a snap anyways.
Historically they performed really poorly as well, but my understanding is that they've largely fixed that issue.
there was a time when they were slow, but that's mostly been resolved.
but it's really just a cult thing now. people hate snaps because they think they're supposed to hate snaps.
- I hate snaps mainly because the server is proprietary. Everything else wrong is negotiable or solvanle, but that's a nonstarter.

If Canonical gives up on snaps, do we call the current Ubuntu time period "the Blip"?

Too late, I'm on Manjaro for the TV computer now. Super annoying when all I use it for is a browser for Jellyfin when the update popup shows up all the time and doesn't even update when you follow its instructions.
I know and did the workaround a couple times, but updates through apt is one of the major strengths of Linux for me. Or pacman now, whatever Manjaro has.
- I mean a TV console just screams LTS Debian to me. Just the most solid of solid distributions

"Ah, come on man, Gort?"

"Come along, Gort."

"Are you talking to me?"

"No, my capybara's name is also Gort."

Klaatu Barada N... Necktie.. Nectar.. Nickel.. Noodle...
- It's definitely an N word!

Sauce: http://askubuntu.com/questions/1035915/ddg#1035917

I AM GORT

sudo rm /bin/bash && reboot

If we're removing bloatware, don't forget /boot/.
It's a computer, not a shoe. How would it even walk in a boot?
- Why exactly are you putting shoes into boots and not feet??

oh, snap!

Portage has everything I need. Especially with overlays, only ones I've added were for steam and librewolf.

I just solved the problem by switching to Manjaro.

unstable
just use endeavouros
- People keep saying that shit. 5+ years with it on all my desktops and half a dozen computer-illiterate rellies that I set up, and I've never seen an issue with it.

https://youtu.be/wkzhi0djdQs?si=u_jrA4TozhmT1mH0

It makes me unreasonably happy that I knew what channel that is because I knew that animal from the main channel
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/wkzhi0djdQs?si=u_jrA4TozhmT1mH0
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

I need Gort in my life

But, docker...

Snaps at least integrate into the command line will. Flatpak running dolphin it's flatpak run org.kde.Dolphin or something compared to snap which is just "dolphin" Doesn't change the fact that you can't get snaps to use Breeze which is unacceptable.

alias dolphin="flatpak run org.kde.Dolphin"
- Why should I have to do that for every flatpak I install?