10h ago

Why would America declaring cartels terrorist organizations be a problem for Mexico?

One thing Trump tried to do after getting inaugurated was considering Mexican cartels terrorist organizations, and for that he was attacked by Sheinbaum for violating Mexico's sovereignty. But, at least as far as I've read on the topic (whcih is not a lot to be fair), nobody actually explains why that's the case. I mean at a glance you'd think the Mexican government would benefit from such an action, or at least I did. It's pretty obvious to me I'm missing a piece of the puzzle, so does anyone here have it?

Edit: Thanks for the answers. Now it makes sense.

22 comments

If US declares a group in a country to be terrorists US entitles itself to bomb them, and do whatever else seems entitleable.

Civilian Casualties
Afghanistan: Civilian deaths from U.S. military operations have been significant, with incidents such as the deaths of two detainees at Bagram in 2002 due to torture[2][4].
Iraq: Civilian casualties peaked in 2006 with over 29,000 deaths. Between 2003 and 2024, civilian deaths fluctuated, with many unaccounted for due to the chaotic nature of war[7].
Drone Strikes: U.S. drone strikes in countries like Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia have caused numerous civilian deaths, though exact numbers are debated[3][4].
Alleged War Crimes
Torture: The use of "enhanced interrogation techniques" (e.g., waterboarding) at facilities like Guantanamo Bay and CIA black sites has been widely condemned as violations of the Geneva Conventions[2].
Bagram Facility: Inhumane treatment and torture led to the deaths of two Afghan detainees in 2002. Military coroners ruled these homicides[2].
Maiwand District Killings: A "Kill Team" of U.S. soldiers murdered Afghan civilians between 2009–2010 and collected body parts as trophies[2].
Extraordinary Renditions: Suspected terrorists were transferred to third countries for interrogation under questionable conditions[2].
Citations: [1] [PDF] CASUALTY STATUS https://www.defense.gov/casualty.pdf [2] United States war crimes - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes [3] Civilians Killed & Wounded | Costs of War https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians [4] [PDF] Annual Report on Civilian Casualties in Connection with United ... https://media.defense.gov/2022/Sep/27/2003086234/-1/-1/1/ANNUAL-REPORT-ON-CIVILIAN-CASUALTIES-IN-CONNECTION-WITH-UNITED-STATES-MILITARY-OPERATIONS-IN-2021.PDF [5] - THE AUTHORITY TO PROSECUTE TERRORISTS UNDER THE ... https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-109shrg36934/html/CHRG-109shrg36934.htm [6] Currently listed entities https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/lstd-ntts/crrnt-lstd-ntts-en.aspx [7] Civilian deaths in Iraq war 2003-2024 - Statista https://www.statista.com/statistics/269729/documented-civilian-deaths-in-iraq-war-since-2003/ [8] Global War on Terror | George W. Bush Library https://www.georgewbushlibrary.gov/research/topic-guides/global-war-terror

They want to do what Russia did to Ukraine. Invade with a false pretense.

Anyone from Mexico here? How do you feel about it?
- No es bueno

See: Afghanistan, Iraq.
America are the toddlers who have found father’s gun and decide to blast at anyone withholding sugar.
The idea that the American military are competent enough to go after just the cartels is laughable. Not to mention the violation of Mexican sovereignty.
Then you see what they did in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Any boy over the age of 12 was considered a potential terrorist therefore a “military age male” and was thus fair game for special forces murder squads, air strikes, drone strikes, and was not needed to be included in the official statistics for civilian kills.
In short the American military apparatus uses Terrorism as a green light to go for maximum overkill, regardless of the level of civilian kills and socio-economic impact. This in turn sustains the vast economic forces in defence contracting and makes a lot of political donors a lot of money.
It also rids the US of thousands of low-income patriotic-but-stupid people who sign up to the military because they have few other career options. These would later cost the state money in Medicare but not if they get killed in action.
War is primarily big business. Moral and legal factors take a back seat.

It gives the US a reason to militarily intervene in Mexico that they can use whenever they want. It acts as preemptive justification for invasion.
- Exactly, Mexico knows how we did Afghanistan.
  The US invaded on the argument that they were harboring terrorists intent to harm America.
  It's pretty clear Trump knows that wartime Presidents have better approval, and like Putin, he's an expansionist and wants excuses to take other countries' land.

Terrorist / Terrorism seems to be a magic word in US law and policy.
If a country has organized crime in their country it's no big deal. If there are close ties between the rulers and the criminals, that's unfortunate.
But, if the criminals are now labelled as terrorists, then you get to go on the state sponsors of terrorism list, which comes with all kinds of sanctions and restrictions.
If you look at so-called "terrorist" organizations, there's almost always elements of "terrorist" activities, but also evidence of other random criminal activities, and often legitimate political activities too. Take Sinn Fein, the political arm of the IRA. Some of their funding came from fuel and drug smuggling. So, where you draw the line between a "terrorist" group and a criminal group is pretty arbitrary. I think most people would say that the Mexican cartels are primarily criminals though. While they do kill people in ways that are intended to send a message, the message is generally "don't mess with our profits" rather than some political ideal.
Every country has some corruption, definitely including the US. So, what happens if a Mexican politician was accepting bribes from Narcos and passing legislation favourable to them? When does that become the state sponsoring terrorism?
Putting the "terrorist" label on Mexican cartels seems like a prelude to doing things that violate Mexico's sovereignty. If the cartels are merely violent criminal organizations, it's a problem for Mexico's government. If they're "terrorists" then the US can lob missiles into Mexico, because it has a long-standing policy of violating the sovereignty of countries that "harbor" (i.e. contain) terrorists.
- . So, what happens if a Mexican politician was accepting bribes from Narcos and passing legislation favourable to them? When does that become the state sponsoring terrorism?
  US has a shaddy history, and near past. Nicaragua contras (freedom fighters???) funded through Columbia/Panama cocaine. Venezuela last election meddling funding Narco gangs to burn things, and previous election, declaring legitimate president to be the main drug lord of the country.

There are a lot of good answers already but I want to add that this changes the situation for any Hispanic people swept up by ICE. If officials feel like they can connect a person to the cartels in any way whatsoever, that individual can now be accused of being a terrorist. This changes the legal process they face, and that's not good news for them. It'll be easier to send the person to Gitmo. It'll be harder to fight for that person's freedom. They'll likely be tortured, and anything they say can be used as pretense for further aggression by the Trump administration, both domestically and foreign.
- Dang... I didn't think of them using this as a way to further chase down deportees...

Mexico likely feels like the US declaring the cartels terrorist orgs will be a pretext to cross border military attacks/interventions/escapades (I'm not sure what the right word should be here).
- Perhaps “operations”
  
  Of the special variety?
- I think they use incursion :
  1. an invasion or attack, especially a sudden or brief one.

It could be a problem as when we declared war on terror decades ago it is fairly vague and unclear on who or where could be invaded. Label them a terrorist org and boom justification to send US troops to Mexico. Given how the US government is now I am deeply concerned. I was against the war on terror then too, yes we got some bad guys but it still does not seem worth all the civilian deaths it takes. We would have needed permanent occupation in Afghanistan too to keep a democratic rule there. Once it ended to me it seems like it was kinda all for nothing.

Correcte if I'm wrong, but didn't the CIA actually make the drug cartels that are in Mexico with the whole war on drugs thing a while back?
- Drug prohibition is awesome for governments because it means permission to bypass the laws. CIA has definitely funded operations through drugs, and have significant responsibility in crack epidemic. I'm unaware of direct links to Mexican cartels though.

It may allow American forces to (more easily?) go down there and run their own operations, potentially refusing to cooperate with Mexican authorities and potentially messing up their own plans and just overall making things muddier and trickier, especially if they rely on sting operations that work better with fewer things going on to provide suspicion or otherwise serve as confounding factors.
With that said, I would imagine that cartels are international terrorist orgs, so I'm not necessarily arguing for or against one side; I'm just trying to imagine why the Mexican gov might dislike it. I could be wrong.
- Isn't Sheinbaum alledgedly associated with the cartels?
  
  I've never seen anything about her in particular. I think this ProPublica investigation is the most in-depth reporting on the relationship between cartels and her political party. They basically allege that cartels paid millions to buy Mexico's 'hugs, not bullets' policy.

22 comments

Civilian Casualties

Alleged War Crimes