7mo ago

New York man pleads guilty to running Chinese police station in Manhattan

www.theguardian.com

Summary

A New York man, Chen Jinping, pleaded guilty to operating an undeclared Chinese police station in Manhattan for China’s Ministry of Public Security.

The station, part of a transnational repression scheme, aided Beijing in locating and suppressing pro-democracy activists in the U.S., violating American sovereignty.

Authorities say the station also served routine functions like renewing Chinese driving licenses but had a more sinister role, including tracking a California-based activist.

Chen faces up to five years in prison, while a co-defendant has pleaded not guilty and awaits trial.

44 comments

"World police? Pfff stupid Americans... We are the world police!"
-Sincerely CCP Bureau of Public Safety, NYC Division
- Phil Ochs said it all the way back in the 1960s:
  We're the Cops of the World
  
  I wish more people today knew about Phil Ochs.
  
  I listen to 'I Ain't Marching Anymore' pretty frequently, but am not familiar with most of his catalogue. I'll check it out!
- I've heard that most, if not all, of their stations outside of NY are essentially for training other police departments. Is that not true?
It's actually really scary, when you think about the implications. Not only a police service you didn't expect there can just abuse you. But it also means that if one such foreign police service can, others can. So there can be Turkish\Azeri, or maybe Saudi, or Iranian, or maybe some other insanely humane and democratic force.
- That's very true
  Just trying to make myself feel better: those cops from other countries don't have any kind of legal jurisdiction over you, so you can kick their ass
  That being said, it's not the average American with an Italian ancestry that's having the CCP knock at their door. It's people with family in China who they can threaten
- What makes this scarier than gangs or mobs? An organized group of violent people acting in a way you can’t defend yourself from. Just like the cops themselves. This isn’t any scarier than the actual existence of all of those other groups.
  
  Presumably, these have the resources of a country behind them.
  
  Your own police - a regulated force you can sue, but not resist.
  A gang or a mob - likely butt buddies with your own police, but there are possibilities to use law and police against them, and they can't put you in jail for resisting.
  A foreign police - like a gang or a mob, but also reliant on a foreign nation state for resources, those including intelligence about you, technical means (like some targeted spyware attacks maybe), more likely to be able to just kidnap you or murder you than a simple gang or a mob. Another level of professionalism.
  
  Thanks comerade, here’s 50 cent.
  
  It's far more well resourced, focused, managed, and targeted. A state sponsored gang is always going to be much scarier than one that emerges on its own funded only by the revenue of its actions.
  
  I mean. It doesn't have to be scarier than those things to be worthy of fear. A tiger isn't necessarily any scarier than a lion. Doesn't mean I'm not scared of a tiger mauling me if it got its claws on me
I'm trying to work out what specifically was illegal about all that? He was processing drivers licences for Chinese citizens. Ok. But as long as that doesn't constitute 'fake id' then what's the actual issue? He was locating Chinese citizens in America and passing that information back to China. Again, if he was acting as a private citizen (rather than, say, as a mole in an American government department) then isn't that free speech? I'm being devil's advocate somewhat, but doesn't this amount to a private citizen making a phone call abroad and saying "hey, I heard so and so lives in California" and now the US government are penalising him?
As a matter of law, try not to just automatically think "china bad", as that's not the basis on him being prosecuted. Imagine an American who goes to the Carribbean looking for Americans who are fleeing taxes owed to the IRS (for arguments sake). If they acted within the bounds of what a private citizen can do (look up public records etc) then would it be right for them to be arrested as an "agent of America"?
- That's the kinda logic used to defend the upper class. "What did he really do?" Hyper focusing on specifics, rather than the actual act.
  Acting as a foreign agent, directly operating under the orders of a foreign government under the jurisdiction of a sovereign country is a bit of a no go. No matter if it's China or not. We here in Europe have similar events with American spies every dozen years (and Russian and Chinese too ofc).
  The stuff you mention about handing out valid Chinese IDs is mostly irrelevant flavor text. It's iffy maily because it was an unofficial station in the eyes of the US. Official embassies fulfill such roles too without issue.
  
  I'm not being faecitious, but what was the "actual act"? If I was on holiday abroad and heard a fellow Brit, now a naturalised citizen of wherever, boasting about tax evasion and I snitched on them to the tax authorities in Britain, have I now done the same thing as an agent of the British government on foreign soil? Ive done an ostensibly legal act (made a phone call abroad) about something I legally came across as a private citizen, but if one wanted to, could that be cast as "colluding against a citizen on behalf of a foreign government"?
  The difference in this case is this person was apparently being paid by the Chinese government. But I'm wondering what specifically about their actions was illegal? Surely if you go about your business doing legal things it doesn't matter whether you're on the payroll of a foreign government or not?
- These police officers are reported to also go after people of Chinese origin that have said things the CCP doesn't like. Violating the right to free speech on USA soil doesn't sit well with the local authorities and diplomats.
  
  We're they visiting them in person and physically intimidating them? That would make sense, but the article doesn't say. I got the impression they were sending publicly available info on people to china. Which, while obviously unpleasant, I'm not sure how their being arrested doesn't violate their freedom of speech.
- Doesn't work like that, my guy. They were targeting Chinese descendants, which would make them american.
  Also this:
  US officials have warned for years of Chinese determination to influence American policy and cultivate relationships with political figures, but also act to pressure US-Chinese nationals domestically.
  
  I'm not trying to be facetious, but am interested in the logic of the law specifically. What was legally wrong about a private citizen sending a message abroad about publicly available information on someone?
  I assume they were doing more nefarious things, but the article doesn't specifically say.
  But if 'all' they were doing was dealing with publicly available information, then I don't follow the legal logic..

44 comments