The Freedom From Religion Foundation is a great organization that helped with an issue in my daughter's public middle school.
My daughter came to us on the first day of school telling us that one of her teachers had a cross and a Bible quote on the wall. I didn't want to get my daughter into trouble by letting the principal know about it myself since they would attach my name to it and she might face retaliation. So I wrote to the FFRF, sent them a picture my daughter drew of the cross and the Bible quote (no phones in class, so she couldn't get a photo).
Not only were they responsive quickly when I contacted them, within a few weeks, they sent an email to the school superintendent with all the relevant legal information as to why this teacher needs to take the cross and Bible quote down and without identifying who reported her.
I'm not a member due to some financial issues right now, but as soon as those clear up, I am going to join. They do good work.
Where is this, and is the school public? Obviously private schools should be illegal, but in the UK religious schools can get away with tonnes by saying 'it's a private school' so apparently it's exempt from the law.
I just heard about the freedom from religion foundation now, and although its name was quite descriptive, it didn't indicate that it was only US based.
Yeah in the US private schools can and do teach literally anything, I was told evolution was fake constantly growing up, even when I took AP biology in 9th grade the teacher made sure to constantly clarify that she had to teach us evolution for the AP exam but it was absolutely fake and to come talk to her if we ever started to think it was real. Insanity.
Care to share some details? I am also a teacher atheist, but I’m curious to hear where you’re coming from. Are you a “no religious anything in the public schools” type, or was the iconography itself egregious in some way?
edit: I don’t get all the downvotes. I was just wondering where this particular person drew the line. They answered me and I appreciate it, but I’d also love to hear from some of the downvoters on why my question was so objectionable.
Teachers are not allowed to promote their religion in a public school. Putting a cross and Bible quote on the wall is establishing a religion, which is a First Amendment violation. It has been found to be so in the courts over and over. It is illegal. Also, not every child is Christian. My daughter is an atheist who is ethnically Jewish. That cross does not make her feel welcome in that classroom.
Is there any amount of religious iconography that is not egregious in a shared public space like a school (school, hospital, library etc)? I'd love to understand where your curiousity is coming from
'Public space' and 'government-funded space' are not strictly the same.
It's reasonable where it's strictly educational, and no faith is getting preferential treatment. Qurans, bibles and other religious books in the library? Sure. A display on 'religions of the world'. Fine.
A teacher having a small cross or scripture somewhere near their desk, in the same way they might have a picture of their spouse/kids? Probably fine, but only if you'd also be happy with Arabic or Hebrew scripture, or a Satanist pentagram.
I mean, Jesus said some things that go along with what we teach in our SEL curriculum, so having a scripture quote regarding the treatmeant of other humans doesn’t seem awful to me. It could be argued that Dr MLK Jr was also a religious leader, so is having quotes from him appropriate or not?
Also, damn with all the downvotes - I was just asking where this person was coming from. I wasn’t saying they were wrong, but I’m also not someone who would make a big deal about religious iconography which was not particularly intrusive, so I was trying to see where they were drawing the line.
Fwiw I think this was a fine question. I’m an atheist who was raised Christian and left it, so I find myself reacting more emotionally towards Christianity in a negative way than towards other religions, but in spite of that I still draw my own personal line pretty pragmatically. I don’t see religion coming close to going away during my lifetime, and I also know a lot of Christians who are great, caring people. (Even though I know some shitheads too.) So I try to teach my daughter that we can think a religion is wrong and even stupid, but we should never use that to pre-judge any given person solely on their religion, and we shouldn’t be rude to people about their religion.
I think OP was perfectly within their rights to do what they did, and I’m very happy to know that the FFRF does this sort of thing. For me personally, I would probably need more direct pushing of religion from a teacher to go to the FFRF.
For me personally, I would probably need more direct pushing of religion from a teacher to go to the FFRF.
This was my thought too, but if OPs daughter expressed her discomfort and they feared repercussions if the teacher knew who reported them, I can see why they took this course.
Not a downvoter, but I'd be willing to bet that it is because many people are used to people saying similar things to what you have said, but in bad faith. The Internet is full of trolls and a genuine openness to having discussion with people with differing opinions is not to be taken for granted.
I wondered if that was the case. I don’t feel as strongly about it as OP, but the fact their their daughter felt uncomfortable because of it is a good enough reason for them to take action. I’m not a parent or a religious person, so I will never have to deal with this, but I was curious as both a teacher and a person new to online atheist communities as to what the line was for OP and also others in this community. I was just thinking that if I were a parent, the iconography would have to be something over the line (ex: the 10 commandments vs one of Jesus’s more humanitarian quotes). Obviously, my theoretical child expressing discomfort would be the line if that were the case, but it might be different if i were just to observe it in the classroom.