Etsy forcing arbitration starting Sep 15
Etsy forcing arbitration starting Sep 15
Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.
Every day, we work to make our platform the best it can be, which includes regularly revisiting our terms and policies (also known as our House Rules) to make sure they meet the needs of our growing community and allow us to continue to support you. Today, we’re sharing a few updates that go into effect on September 15, 2024.
We’ve made some changes to our dispute resolution clause (section 11) for users in North and South America, with updates to our arbitration procedures for smaller matters and for coordinated or “mass” arbitrations (with 25 or more claimants). We have also updated the choice of law that’s applicable to the Terms. As before, the arbitration agreement includes a class action and jury waiver, which means we’ll be resolving most disputes in private, individual arbitration, and not in court. Please read this section carefully. We’ve added which entity acts as the merchant of record, depending on a buyer’s currency and location of your payment instrument.
So, if you're upset at all you can't sue, you can't go to the courts, you have to sit in a an arbitration with someone we choose who (trust us) won't be biased.
To add in, an annoyance for sure:
Effective July 29, our Adult Nudity and Sexual Content Policy introduces more rigorous guidelines regarding our prohibitions of nude or sexual content, as well as how to appropriately list certain mature content.
How is it remotely legal for a company to opt out of the standard legal process?
America are you actually capable of not being cartoonishly malicious towards your people?
Would it hold up in court? Probably not. But in America the court system is pay to win, and does any person have the funds to go up against a literal team of lawyers paid top dollar by their backing corporation?
So yeah, you could sue them and say the license agreement doesn't matter that it's not legal, but you're going to bankrupt yourself doing so.
America, land of the "free"
No. Being cartoonishly malicious towards our wage slaves is our guiding principle.
That poetic sounding "Shining city on a hill" is a gated community surrounded by slums that don't have electricity.
It's baffling, isn't it? How can a company just unilaterally decide to not be subject to this or that law, and the courts just... go with it? It's the same level of idiocy exhibited by sovereign citizens, but somehow, when you're a corporation they actually let you do it...
The idea is that if you wanted to fight a big company with lawyers you'll either lose because they will delay till you're broke, or you'll win but the lawyers will get most of the money. If you have a legit issue they would honor resolving the issue without anyone having to spend time, money, and publicity in court. It means you might actually win one of these times. The joke part is we already have an unbiased arbitration system...our courts.
This is legal, currently, because this is basically a non-disclosure. We will deal with our problems outside the legal system and no one will talk about it. We do this in other cases but its usually human to human, not human to massive corporate entity.
The real reason all the companies are coming up with forced arbitration clauses is that it kills class-action lawsuits.
It is because the company can claim u opted to use their service so they can make whatever rules they want, and the company has nothing to lose by pushing the legal limits bc the company is a person so none of the ceos or board members will ever be held responsible. Welcome to capitalism unchecked
They want to get a piece of the power Disney showed.
I will not visit the Etsy theme park
I won't sign up for Etsy+.
I trully dont understand why sellers still use etsy. I partly understand that buyers do but for sellers its a shitshow of fees and eroding terms that limit any dignity for the sellers.
There is a great coop alternative run by the sellers and where you can buy in on the coop by working for them
There's, like.... a seller wait-list and membership/artisan required thing if you want to join?
And you need separate accounts for selling AND buying?
EDIT: required are photos of your workspace & creation process to get verified as officially "handmade".....
EDIT 2: It's a lovely idea, but may not be accessible to more mainstream buyers.
Neat, didn't know that existed!
I didn't know there was an Etsy alternative yet!
PSA: You can opt-out of arbitration clauses
You can not be forced to give up legal rights in a contract in the USA, and anytime an arbitration agreement in the US is pushed out onto the public like a big ol' turd by the @55holes 5h!tting on us from up high, we have the legal tight to opt-out. This usually only lasts for a limited amount of time, typically 30 days after "agreeing" to the new TOS, and the process has to be done manually, like with an email or actual letter. Yes it's a pain, they design it that way so less users will do it. But it can be done.
Won't be they just cancel the your account if you refuse the new tos?
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, just someone who knows his rights in this particular case in my particular locality.
Some companies will "require" that condition to have an account, but legally you have to be given the chance to opt-out and not be retaliated against for that choice. I haven't had a single company refuse me an account or access for excluding myself from their arbitration clause, yet. However, I suppose it is a possibility, although I believe a very small one. Since it's a legally protected right. However a business can refuse service, so it's up to the individual to determine how they want to safeguard their rights or surrender them for services, based on their needs.
Good to know thank you
It's not "starting" Sep 15, the arbitration agreement was in effect in their previous ToS as well. If you were an existing Etsy user at the time of that ToS your 30-day opt-out period has already passed.
New users still have a 30-day opt-out period as well (see sections G and H.)
I thought they couldn't get worse D: