Superheroes are pro-police propaganda. They teach you to be afraid of those who disobey the state rather than yhe state policies that drive impoverished and precariats to desperation.
What does Spidey do with the suspects he catches? He leaves them to get processed into the prison system where they can be used for slave labor, are subject to abuse by the staff and occasionally are killed by thirst or by getting braised in the showers.
White collar crime causes way more loss of life, more destruction and more cost than all the petty crime by multiple orders of magnitude and yet Spidey still goes after street goons. _The same for Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Ironman and Captain America. If they're not fighting their own rogues gallery, they're hunting street thugs.
They're certainly not interested in the plutocrats who have captured our governments.
This is a weird take when "really rich guys doing depraved things" is a recurring villain trope across an awful lot of comic books and take up a huge portion of the narrative. Insane wealth is often framed so powerfully in these contexts that sometimes it can parallel superpowers.
The green goblin and doc oc are just really rich guys that do fucked up things! It's implies that spidey puts goons and henchmen into the justice system because of course he does, what else is he going to do? His other options are killing them or just letting them get away with whatever the insane rich guy wants to do, which is often some kind of terror attack on NYC. And those both suck too.
Spidey is too busy trying to literally prevent some business tycoon from idk opening a demon portal under central park to also advocate for prison reform.
Just let the stories be fun.
The villains appear after the fact.
Spider-man, the Batman all the rest fight crime because (generic) crime is the problem. As with James Bond and SPECTER (SPECTRE?), there's a point when the USSR and the cold war was too complicated to be an easy-to-punch baddie, even with the gulags and tanking, so James Bond got a Moriarty, a nemesis to fight instead. The superhero rogues galleries are what happens once it becomes awkward that all the superhero does, is as Garth Ennis put it beat up poor people. And so Jokers and Doc Ocs and Red Skulls are invented when the real Nazis are no longer a threat.
When we stick superheroes into the modern western world, the pretense is that the system mostly works, essentially that Ronald Reagan isn't around gutting social programs, turning prisons into (pretty literal) gulags, fueling the war on drugs and otherwise making the federal and state justice systems into even more of a system of oppression than they were after prohibition (specifically to target non-whites, at that). In the DC and Marvel worlds, police are not overly brutal. Prisons are not overwhelmingly unhumanitarian (nor are they impacted). And yes, criminals really did make some avoidable bad life choices (rather than IRL getting steered into the school-to-prison pipeline).
Though the silver age, the system ran by magic capitalism, even as IRL industries were capturing the regulatory agencies that were supposed to prevent them from driving precarity and poverty to 80%+ of the nation (and thereby fueling the white Christian nationalist movement that is taking over the federal government and many states today).
Through the dark age (that is 1985-1995-ish), Batman sometimes killed, but Frank Miller noted that the thugs were so awful that they deserved it. The criminal element were painted as literal undesirables you could do anything to without moral concern. Sure, Arkham Asylum was a literal dungeon and the jails were infested with rats, lice and scabies (as they are IRL) but it was okay not to give half a fuck about the inmates, because we know what they did.
And yes, even when the current MCU villains have a point, they are obligated to offer a solution that involves decimating the public, so that they can be waved away as too radical, and the Avengers can go back to serving the establishment plutocracy (and not the public). Heck, even Adrian Veidt (Ozymandias in Watchmen ) killed half of New York in order to stop a nuclear holocaust.
... you might be reading too much into a silly superhero. He fights a man with mechanical tentacles named 'Doctor Octopus'. He has an enemy who is literally just a stage magician called 'Mysterio'. There are several animal-people. One villain is literally made out of sand.
It's... generally not that deep.
The MCU is one of the biggest moneymakers in Hollywood. It is literally Disney's flagship media line and curiously when they attained Spider-man from Disney, the first thing they did was pull Spidey out of poverty and put Aunt May on the Avengers payroll.
It may not be that deep in the comics, but it's still teaching kids the way to fight crime is to punch them in the face, break their legs and put them in an impacted and inhumane prison system.
Just like Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush and Dan Quayle taught us we should do as they were subsidiIng the prison industrial complex and pushing the War on Drugs.
I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy Spider-man. I read Spider-man as a kid and my grandson does today. He also fantasizes about punching baddoes in the face, and I can only hope he'll realize that's fantasy before his first real encounter with law enforcement.
Iron Man has plenty of stories where his enemies are other rich businessmen. The plot of his first two films have those bad guys. Captain Americas stories tend to be more about international espionage than street level crime, especially since Brubakers but reinvention in the early 2000s. Batman/Bruce Wayne canonically pumps tons of money into social programs for Gotham. When was the last time you picked up a comic? 1965?
Philanthropic foundations are known to be a really poor way to actually fuel change in a neighborhood, but a great way to get tax breaks and some positive marketing. We knew that when Andrew Carnegie dumped a bunch of his own money into community works.So no, the Wayne Foundation is no such program. However, note that because of Bruce Wayne's charitable contributions, you managed to believe that was a way that a billionaire might be remotely ethical. A lot of people would like to believe that people who are filthy rich can keep their money and be ethical. It's really not possible.
It comes down to what are they fighting for? What is it that the rich businessmen are trying to do that Iron Man must stop them? What is Iron Man and Batman protecting?
The status quo. If we imagine that this is fine and that our civilization is intrinsically good and just needs protection from some external evils, then sure, it's just like every other 1980s TV show.
And you know, when the fossil fuel industry was able to effectively obfuscate that we weren't headed towards global ecological collapse (because in the 70s, few people had heard of the Holocene extinction, and the crying Indian was telling them it was their fault that the environment was trashed). Batman isn't fighting to end industrial control of the government of Gotham (and the whole US). He's fighting to preserve his own control of government.
That said, I read Batman mostly in the eighties and nineties, After BTAS, the later animated series dropped in quality, and movies got really strange after the Nolan films and the DCEU series emerged. But The Batman the most recent one actually acknowledges how the paradigm typical of the late 20th century (and the MCU and DCEU in the 21st) are more like pro-wrestlers.
But then, that is consistent with hypotheses that human society is infantilizing, and are less interested in seeing reflections of our own world as we are some dudes smacking each other around on a stage or in a cage.
That's literally so wrong.
Why did Spidey become a hero in the first place? Because the cops couldn't find the killer, so Peter did and killed the guy. Which was not justice.
So many heroes of NY in Marvel are focused on justice and the concept of what is justice. The Punisher kills, Daredevil punishes, Spidey is learning. Sometimes he lets people go, otherwise he believes imprisonment is an alternative. Sometimes there is an option that don't fit either.
The point is Spider-Man knows killing isn't justice and the cops/system doesn't either, he literally is an enemy to police always. He simply is trying to make a dangerous world a little more safe in his local area.
Fuck out of here with your fake ass political take. Especially such a terrible one.
Stories of heroes are as old as written word and likely older.
And it surprises me that we don't introduce new paradigms. As Red (from OSP noted) The Scarlet Pimpernel was an early superhero (mostly with unearthly levels of panache) who rescued French aristocrats from (those evil, murderous) revolutionaries.
Part of the problem is that the narratives we get are made by companies that don't want us to think about why we have super-agencies like SHIELD, and who are they serving (hint: The same people that are served by CIA, DHS and special forces we send to undeveloped countries).
Imagine, for instance, a citywide industrial strike (because our teachers / freight drivers / baristas / dockworkers / etc.) are underpaid, get no sick leave and have shitty healthcare for themselves and their families. They can't live like this, but the company management is beholden to shareholders who want their money (and will litigate to keep dividends high). Management thinks (much as in Hollywood right now) they can just wait it out, even if the economy is tanking, the workers will start getting hungry. (Yes, it's a literal siege.)
But the neighborhoods and developed mutual aid organizations to help the strikers and keep them from being forced to return to work...
So...the state governor sends law enforcement to bust up mutual aid stations. Violently. With dogs and shooting. (ICE does this kind of work frequently, as part of Customs Enforcement That's why they were in New Zealand to raid the Kim Dotcom estate)
And then street-level superheroes (like Spider-man!) emerge to defend the mutual aid groups from the police anti-riot teams. (Eventually the companies will hire mercenaries, much the way they did to attack the water protectors stopping the Dakota Access Pipeline, which would become the opposing rogues gallery)
This is a superhero story I could get behind, since it's actually about serving the public good, rather than an establishment that wants to replace us with robots or AI generative systems ASAP.
Superman's primary villain is literally a white collar criminal that uses the system in order to stymie efforts to hold him accountable. A lot of superhero media could stand to be more critical of the police and prison system but it's a little more complicated to dismantle capitalism than it is to foil violent crime and respond to accidents and disasters.
Yes, and the society that Superman lives in is one that is inherently good and functional, and just needs to be groomed once in a while (or defended from exterior elements).
Granted, they tried to get Superman to force nuclear disarmament, and that didn't go so well.
Superman is actually the zenith example of defenders of the status quo. Superman's job is to return things back to normal which IRL we can no longer pretend is acceptable.
Well, there are still villains like Lex Luthor, Kingpin and Amanda Waller to represent the actually evil part of society. They're just a minority because goofy over-the-top villains in silly costumes are more entertaining for the kids.
would you rather they kill the villains than send them to prison?
The supervillains yes. It's why I don't like most superheroes.
Like Batman for instance. Batman has the blood of every single innocent person the joker killed on his hands because he refuses to solve the problem.
"iF yOu KiLl A kIlLeR tHe AmOuNt Of KiLleRs ReMaInS tHe SaMe!!!11!1!1"
Not if you kill all of them.
And especially not if said killers have killed hundreds/thousands.
🤓
Avengers: defenders of the status quo
I think comics and the movies are afraid to change the baseline world too much because then it'd be less relatable and require more explanation. Part of the fantasy is imagining super heros in our world. That becomes difficult if the baseline world of the comics and movies is drastically different.
That being said, I'm sure the MCU hugely sanitizes it's messages. For example, their solution to systematic racism in falcon and the winter soldier was a just a speech saying to do better.
ha, what a funny moment from a spider man comic!
what the fuck is going on in the comments.
You can’t just enjoy comics without someone spouting their political nonsense on the internet.
The MCU is one of the biggest moneymakers in Hollywood. It is literally Disney's flagship media line and curiously when they attained Spider-man from Disney, the first thing they did was pull Spidey out of poverty and put Aunt May on the Avengers payroll.
It may not be that deep in the comics, but it's still teaching kids the way to fight crime is to punch them in the face, break their legs and put them in an impacted and inhumane prison system.
Just like Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush and Dan Quayle taught us we should do as they were subsidiIng the prison industrial complex and pushing the War on Drugs.
I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy Spider-man. I read Spider-man as a kid and my grandson does today. He also fantasizes about punching baddoes in the face, and I can only hope he'll realize that's fantasy before his first real encounter with law enforcement.
