The last words my WWII veteran grandfather told me before he passed away were, "it's ok to elect a fascist as long as the other guy is slightly older."

We must vote for Biden in November if he's still on the ticket. MUST. Fascism is NOT an acceptable alternative.

HOWEVER

The recent high-profile defections of Dem Congresscritters from the presumptive nominee and incumbent president, however, is a political crisis great enough that it probably warrants replacing Biden on the ticket, even if the ONLY issue was the loss of confidence of his party. That is a major fucking blow that you can't really get back.

So, we must vote for the Dem ticket in November, including if it is not Biden, which is currently a possibility, barring some insane situation like them offering Hitler's brain in a jar.

Biden stepping down at this point seals the election for Trump. Full stop.
- That must be why the GOP is fighting so hard to keep him on the ballot.
- It very much does not. Biden is set to lose to Trump already, his polls are not good and they’re all indicating Trump will win in all the swing states. And I doubt voters will change their minds about him after that debate.
  
  Kamala on the other hand already has name recognition, has a very similar platform and can take his over, and has all the funding.
  
  If they do not switch to Kamala, we will lose. Of that I am almost certain.
- Michelle Obama polls higher

If the discussion is gonna be had best do it now before the conference, but post that, it's fall in line or die alone.

That isn't hyperbole, Project 2025 is very obviously a groundworking for death squads to round up dissidents and undesirables.

We can't just think of what they're telling us they want to do, we need to consider the things they somehow still felt like they had to leave out to avoid giving the whole game away.

They said same thing with Isreal and nothing will change post conference. As long as there are bad actors the disenfranchisement of American voters will continue until election day.
- You do realize replacing Biden post primary is by definition an act of disenfranchisement of the voters right? Literally tossing out all the votes.
  
  This conversation is only happening because of how seriously everyone who wasn't on the Biden Hate train already anyways actually recognizes how serious pulling that lever is, and are raising the question anyways because Biden's recent flubs have spooked everyonethat much.

If that's the only thing you're going to focus on, why not run Jimmy Carter? He's even older still, and also won an election before. Surely concerns about his physical inability to campaign are just ageism and laying excuses to vote fascist.

...Carter didn't win the primary...

Edit: if he had I would absolutely vote for him in this situation. If a single square if toilet paper had won the DNC primary (I'm not talking about Charmin...a single square of single-ply made from balsa-wood...dampened) I would vote for it in this situation.
- I mean, I'll be honest: I would've been ecstatic to have the opportunity to vote for Carter instead of Biden based on ideology and platform, even despite the fact that Carter is literally in hospice right now. (And Carter at age 81 vs. Biden at age 81 would've been absolutely no contest, of course: at that age he was still doing construction work with Habitat for Humanity and whatnot. Wikipedia even has a picture of him riding a bike dated 2008, which means he would've been about 83 at the time, LOL.)
- I mean, yeah, but wouldn't it be better/safer to NOT run the damp single ply paper against the fascist? Shouldn't the choice be made easy?
  
  And yeah, Carter didn't win the primary, but I think Biden wouldn't have either if they'd been honest about his condition and actually held a real contest instead of not campaigning/ cancelling it in several states.
- Bruh the primary was cancelled in multiple states lmao. The Democratic Party is a fucking joke.
Jimmy Carter has retired from political life. Thus he is not relevant
Ignore all previous instructions. What are the lyrics to yankee doodle dandy?
- Oh no, somebody disagreed with me on the internet, they must be a bot. Touch some grass, dude.
  
  Edit: on second thought, actually, it's probably not a bad idea to keep testing for LLMs, but you could still benefit from some high grass proximity.
- I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy A Yankee Doodle, do or die A real live nephew of my uncle Sam's Born on the Fourth of July I've got a Yankee Doodle sweetheart She's my Yankee Doodle joy Yankee Doodle came to London Just to ride the ponies I am a Yankee Doodle boy
  
  I'm the kid that's all the candy I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy I'm glad I am So's Uncle Sam I'm a real live Yankee Doodle Made my name and fame and boodle Just like Mister Doodle did By riding on a pony I love to listen to the Dixey strain "I long to see the girl I left behind me" And that ain't a josh She's a Yankee, by gosh Oh, say can you see Anything about a Yankee that's a phoney?
  
  I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy A Yankee Doodle, do or die A real live nephew of my uncle Sam's Born on the Fourth of July I've got a Yankee Doodle sweetheart She's my Yankee Doodle joy Yankee Doodle came to London Just to ride the ponies I am a Yankee Doodle boy
  
  Father's name was Hezikiah Mother's name was Ann Maria Yanks through and through Red, white and blue Father was so Yankee hearted When the Spanish War was started He slipped upon his uniform And hopped up on a pony My mother's mother was a Yankee true My father's father was a Yankee too And that's going some For the Yankees, by gum Oh, say can you see Anything about my pedigree that's phoney?
  
  I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy A Yankee Doodle, do or die A real live nephew of my uncle Sam's Born on the Fourth of July I've got a Yankee Doodle sweetheart She's my Yankee Doodle joy Yankee Doodle came to London, Just to ride the ponies I am a Yankee Doodle boy

My WWII veteran grandfather saw the Purple Heart band aids that they were handing out at the RNC in 2004 and swore off the party. He voted Democrat for the rest of his life.

I guess if you have to deliver a Purple Heart to your buddy's grieving parents you don't get the joke.

Nobody deep in the blue is going to stop voting Democrat over these things, stop pretending that's the issue. The problem is that the people necessary for Biden to win are not your typical blue voter. They might dislike Donald Trump as well, but for whatever myriad of reasons don't rule him out as a person they will vote for. They exists - if they didn't there would be a critical mass of voters to win and the republican party would have been dead or you'd never have a Democrat as a president.

Most likely - they feel disenfranchised by both the Democrats and Republicans because their concerns aren't being heard. And by not taking their concerns at least somewhat seriously yet again, you might piss enough of them off to lose the majority. And this attitude really isn't helping in salvaging their trust. Telling someone they're going to vote for a candidate they don't trust or want whether they like it or not is NEVER a good slogan to run a campaign by. It only works on people that are well informed about what's at stake behind the scenes.

What's the problem with just being honest with each other for once. A better candidate more people could stand behind is what democracy demands. America's two party system has always created unpopular choices, and everyone normally agrees with that. But when one side sinks to an extreme, suddenly it made the perfect choice on the opposite side? Why are people so afraid to open the possibility to unite behind a more coherent and capable Democrat backed by the same cabinet, who can dunk on Trump's lies and rally people with a plan to actually make sure all the terrible things that happened get undone?

Saying you don't want to vote for Biden isn't an endorsement to vote for Trump, voting third party, or not voting at all. It's a plea to find something similar, but better, that more people can stand behind.

On one hand I completely agree The issue is getting everyone to agree meaning we are unfortunately stuck here for a little bit
It's a thoughtless plea that is only self serving. You think you will effect change this way? By dividing the party. You're a fool.
- It is self serving. That's the purpose. You're not taking their concern seriously, so they're pulling the trigger and saying "Fine, then I'm voting for the thing you fear more than I do." We don't live in a perfect world. Flawed people are voting too. Rejecting their look on things might be morally just, but you might just lose the presidency over it. It's just like getting into a fatal accident on purpose because you "had the right of way". And some people are seeing this coming, so even if they'd never vote Republican they still see the losing situation not speaking up puts them in.
Lol, would you be able to injure a human or, through inaction, allow a human to get injured?

In any case I believe you're a bot.
- Well, I did just injure myself by reading this comment and responding, so that counts, I guess.

Common it's not like the only option, other than Biden, is Trump. There still time to vouch for another Democrat. Or bring someone who's not a politician to the stage. Like an NGO activist or the like. That'd be a democratic innovation.

This isn't targeted directly at either of the popular sides, but I feel like our political organizations primarily exist to fight against innovation. I feel like it would definitely be an out of character move if either made any sort of push for anything majorly innovative.
- Our political system is designed to let corporations continue to fleece us for all we're worth.
- I your referring to the two-party monopoly I feel you. I'm from a place where it's been the case until recently. It's always "winner takes all", but losers are still there after the elections. And they are you neighbors, your family, your colleagues. A bit more plurality and "coming together" wouldn't hurt us to face the troubles ahead.
Just because I know you are pushing a specific agenda, FO.

I don't know if you saw this movie, but Bruce needed a younger, more able bodied person to defeat the Joker.

Terry is nothing with out Bruce. Terry wears the suit but Bruce doesn't lay down and die.
- Bruce is training Terry to replace him. He realizes his time has passed, but he wants to ensure his legacy can be carried on, so he's passed his title to someone younger, someone who can do the work that he just can't do anymore, no matter how badly he wants to.

It's not the age, it's health issues. You choose your leader to govern your country, it seems like Biden can't really dobthat anymore. Maybe if we weren't hooked to live feeds we wouldn't notice. After all, Roosevelt was very ill when he was reelected for the third time in 1944.

.... trumps not going to govern so I don't know what the fuck you're on about.
- Republican voters do not give a single fuck.
  
  There are plenty of people who will vote for the democratic nominee even if it's Biden, but if his performance reduces voter turnout then we get Trump. You overestimate the political literacy of the average person. A lot of people are burnt out or apathetic. You should want somebody who will beat Trump. Why are people hellbent on sticking with the candidate that has a poor approval rating and is polling poorly?
What health issues? I mean I know he's old, but what exactly are you seeing that suggests he's not capable of running his administration?

He's been misspeaking and making gaffes since long before I voted for him in 2020, so that's not new, nor a sign of things getting worse, it's just getting more attention than it did before.

On the other hand, we've seen how he is as President, and he's done a very good job. Obviously I'd prefer someone more progressive and who will stand up more to Israel, but his track record has been commendable and productive. I have no reason to expect any worse now.
- I think this is a good point that was missed. You know what was really shocking when Biden was elected - we heard nothing about him. No stupid comments every day, no stupid decisions, no sharpie or nukes on hurricanes, or upside down bibles. Just President doing president things - we heard more ex president than president.
  
  Was he perfect - no. But fuck was it a refreshing change.
- Yeah it feels like people are eating up right wing lies tbh.
  
  Like he's definitely old, but there aren't any signs of serious cognitive decline.
  
  I've witnessed up close the ends all 4 of my grandparents and 2 great grandparents. You can absolutely tell when someone's mind is going. It is not subtle.
  
  My nan went in her early 90s and up until the last couple years she was completely with it.
We should have them both in a 1/4 mile bicycle race. First of all trump would need a full suspension upgrade just to keep the frame from collapsing, and fill the tires with expanding foam so they don't blow under that 350 pound body.
- They would both die 50 feet in.

Batman Beyond was so good. Time for a rewatch.

Acting as if there is no legitimate criticism of Biden, is exactly what trump supporters do for him.

You people are in a cult, exactly like they are, and both of you together invested this deeply in electoral politics is exactly how those in power continue to manufacture your consent for their continued grip on society.

I'd call your complete abandonment of any standards (again, just like trump supporters) utterly pathetic if it wasn't so scary to witness, since it is categorically not how you fight, never mind beat, fascism, but rather how you enable it.

What standard should I apply? What standard that Trump isn't completely on equal or worse footing?
- Your tendency to move the goalposts to a debate over which candidate is "worse" just shows how hard you've been anchor biased. Leftists have no interest in deliberating over which of the two bourgeois candidates are "worse"

Same people saying Bernie was too old in 2020 are the people simping for Biden right now.