Python has too many package managers
Python has too many package managers
dublog.net
Python has too many package managers
39 comments
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and Conda takes 20 minutes to do anything these days... 😂 send help
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Mamba is much faster!
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Might want to look at Pixi - written in Rust, BTW, but effectively seems to be a drop-in replacement that's at least faster than Conda.
edit: link: https://prefix.dev/
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This article is an excellent update on the state of Python package management tools.
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I agree, although it undersells hatch and has a title that made me roll my eyes. Very well researched, none of the usual hot takes and clichés.
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I’ve tried several and all of them left be disappointed eventually.
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I landed on hatch. The way it handles venvs and python versioning is awesome, and can also use UV. I haven't used UV yet tho.
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Unfortunately, PEP 582 was rejected, so PDM has deprecated the functionality. But it does support PEP 621, which can't be said for Poetry. There's a PR.
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Poetry's compatibility with PEP 621 is underway, but it'll likely be delayed to version 2.
Poetry provides a lot of the same functionality for quite some time now, which complicates the quick adoption, but it'll happen.
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I just pip in a venv
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and it used to be worse (at the time that XKCD was published)
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That means it's improving! I hope the pace of improvement can accelerate.
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I would love similar movement with regards to doc comment standards. My company uses numpy and its too verbose, and the style guide makes zero mention of type hints so we keep winging it. And with not many tools for enforcing the standards (like what type to actual write for a parameter) its an ongoing battle among the team.
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By the creator of Flask and many other things
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It comes with built-in
ruffanduv, and can handle Python versioning for you!Not sure if they want to eventually dissolve
Ryeintouvor what, but for now it's one of the best (better than Poetry, IMO)edit: it also uses the pypoetry.toml standard, something Poetry doesn't (because Poetry predates pyproject.toml becoming a standard).
One possible downside: I've heard Rye doesn't honor XDG, which means it has its own location for its config. I don't mind, but perhaps you do.
A second possible downside is that Rye doesn't let you centralize your venvs, so each
.venvgoes into each project folder, so no usingvirtualenvwrapperwithworkonto jump between projects. zoxide can alleviate that problem, or presuming you have a~/devfolder or similar, you could write a bash function thatls' that folder and lets you select a folder viafzf? Go ask ChatGPT about it or something.edit2: link: https://rye.astral.sh/guide/installation/
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I'd rather have too many options than the bullshit situation C/C++ has and has had for decades. Open any C++ project and try to get all the dependencies easily using the standard tooling. It'll vary on every distro and OS.
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Pip-tools!
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You can use uv now and have Rust speeds for the same functionality.
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Interesting. I might have a look. Actually I don't have a problem with speed though. I spend most time not dealing with pip and pip-tools but reading docs, programming and fixing the weirdest bugs
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I'm hoping uv is able to make itself to Python what Cargo is to rust.
Seems like Pixi is close but confined to the Conda ecosystem.
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.. and every one of them destroys single source of truth for installed state. Most of them have no validation potential, and most of them are imperfect upgrades/downgrades.
If you don't know why all that's important, just remember why fired all our mentor types 20 years ago after the Y2K bust and so you had noone to teach you why. Mistakes like lennart's Cancer didn't grow in the light of rich knowledge sharing.
39 comments
Having more than one obvious way is unpythonic
Unfortunately, pip, the obvious way, kind of sucks. So I use poetry, which seems to work nicely.
I'm using Poetry as well. But I really hope Rye works out so we can finally end this madness.
I don't know what the solution is but like 50% of everything on github that's in python is broken from dependencies and of those, half of them are fixable if you put a substantial amount of effort into it. It sucks. I've spent 2 entire days trying to get any AI tts to work and have gotten nowhere. I've tried 'em all, just about. None of them work on Debian.
... except for the part where the dependency definition doesn't follow the latest approved PEP, and the default constraint with ^ add an upper limit that causes problems.
I moved to PDM.
Wait, what’s wrong with pip?
(Disclaimer: I grade my Python proficiency slightly above beginner. I used it for some research in college and grad school, and I’ve made a few helpful scripts at work, but I am not anything approaching an expert)