Had this conversation with someone who chose to no longer be at my table after meeting a blind NPC
Had this conversation with someone who chose to no longer be at my table after meeting a blind NPC
Another player who was at the table during the incident sent me this meme after the problem player in question (they had a history) left the group chat.
Felt like sharing it here because I'm sure more people should keep this kind of thing in mind.
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There's a webcomic I read where the cleric became a cleric and started adventuring so he could be powerful enough to help regrow his mother's lost arm. When she had the option to regrow her arm, she refused. She didn't need it. With her extended family, she had all the hands she could ever want.
Extended family tired of moving her furniture:
No, her extended family got mad at her wanting to repay them for a dress, insisting she accept it as a gift. They insist she will never owe them for anything, and for good reason.
That sounds incredibly sweet. Do you remember the name of the webcomic?
Order of the Stick. She shows up pretty late on, but she's an amazing character.
Thank you for reminding me of the name of that webcomic
I followed it years ago and had quite forgotten when it was lost to a tab on a dead computer.
That is awesome, I'm not familiar with this one but I can use a good read. Thank you!!
Oh man, I envy you, this comic has evolved so much over the years.
Selfish I think. She much prefer people do stuff for her. She wouldn't get much help if she was more capable.
She is anything but selfish. Literally every member of that family is only there because of her selfless deeds (not hyperbole), and they have to talk her into taking their support as a form of thanks. She will never owe them anything by their insistence.
For reference...
She donated 25000 gp, received as compensation for losing her arm and her husband, in order to resurrect five strangers. Those strangers became her family. She still offers to pay for meals and gifts given to her because she doesn't want to intrude on their generosity. Her arm is still holding her husband, and she doesn't need another one.
She is selfish by choosing to not "pull her weight". She became selfish by that choice.
I understand there are some communities that choose things like keeping their child deaf, but if you're choosing to put more weight on me then that does go into my perception of you.
I'm not going to force anyone into "becoming healed". But they are choosing. That choice is when it becomes selfish.
No, it isn't as selfish as a billionaire putting children in mines to see their bank account grow.
Everyone makes selfish choices all the time.
Just because you made a selfish choice doesn't make you a bad person, or even means you "hurt" someone. Doing good deeds before doesn't make future acts not selfish.
When I first read "she has all the arms and feet she could ever want" all I did is put myself into the shoes of someone who is helping her. "Oh, all I am is a foot?" Is an easy thing to see someone feeling, especially after learning they're choosing to keep you there.
Why did you put things in quotes that nobody said? When did you read "arms and feet"?
She is not selfish. She is selfless to a fault. She isn't putting more work on others, she just doesn't think it's worth the hassle of magically healing her when that effort could go to helping others. She isn't doing it just because she thinks she can make others work for her, and if you read what I wrote, you'd know that.
She does pull her weight, and she pulls it with one hand while everyone else is telling her to rest for a bit. Everyone offers their hands to her and she has learned, over many years, to accept their aid. They are not just hands. They are her fucking family.
Here's an example of how incredibly wrong you've read the situation.
I'm not as great formatting in text. But you started this by saying arms and feet. The rest were mostly
along the lines of the text has multiple meanings and I'm using certain ones.I made no judgement on her overall character. I haven't argued her whole is selfish. That one instance is her being selfish. I did read what you wrote? Your argument on that specific act not being selfish is "she's done good things." I don't care. I don't know her. That act is selfish, the choice is selfish.
I don't care if they're family. Am I not allowed to complain about acts that 'harm' me?
I'm sorry, is that supposed to make me not feel that she's selfish. I have experience with people doing that "oh no, I cannot accept a gift" any every time I've seen someone do that it's from past trauma. The reason why I'm going to push back against anyone saying "let them stay traumatized" is because helping people and giving gifts makes people like you more. If you do that you're going to push people away, and make it harder to live/have friends/get help in the future/form bonds with people. No, that is bull shit behavior. You probably posted the one thing that would make me dislike her more.
I literally never said feet. I said arms, I said hands, I never said feet.
Your argument on that specific act not being selfish is “she’s done good things.”
That wasn't my argument on that act. That was my argument on her. She has a pattern of selfless behaviour, so it's weird to interpret this in a way that makes her selfish.
The argument I made on that specific act is that her having one hand is not a selfish thing. She says it's not worth the hassle healing her, and she's willing to do the work she'd need to by herself, even with the disadvantage. It only affects her. Nothing about that is selfish. I don't even see how it COULD be.
I don’t care if they’re family.
I didn't say they're family like that excuses anything. I said they're family because that is their reasoning, and how they treat each other. She treats them like family. They help her because they're her family. You say she treats them like they're just hands and feet, which is simply wrong.
Am I not allowed to complain about acts that ‘harm’ me?
This feels like a rather telling thing to say. Nothing in this situation harms anyone, including you. Nobody has been forced to do anything they aren't immediately offering to do. Nobody is trying to leverage anyone to do things for them. Her disability is not a burden on anyone. It's weird you interpret it in this way.
I have experience with people doing that...
You seem to have started arguing against a phantom in the middle there, and also implied that the only reason to do nice things is so other people like you? That's not why she does nice things. She does them because she thought it was the proper thing to do, and that anyone else would do the same. There's no trauma. She's not pushing anyone away. And the comic directly shows someone demanding her to accept their generosity, which matches with her learning to accept their aid in the comic I showed earlier.
I never said feet.
That is so inconsequential. I don't care if it was the tip of their elbow. The part doesn't matter. Why focus on it? You're doing nothing but distracting by pointing at something that doesn't matter.
That was my argument on her.
This whole time I've been talking about the act and that I don't know this person. Once again, not what I've been talking about. I care about the act because it is selfish. That is why my first post on this I said "Just because you made a selfish choice doesn't make you a [selfish] person..."
It only affects her.
No, it does not only affect her. Have you never lived with people or been in a community. It takes time and effort to take care of people. If you're 'sick' and people take care of you, if you expect people to have the same amount of support after denying the 'cure' you're being selfish. If we keep up treating everyone the same, then we cannot 'step up' to help sick people.
You say she treats them like they’re just hands and feet, which is simply wrong.
You should re read what I typed..."[I]put myself into the shoes of someone who is helping her. "Oh, all I am is a foot?""
Nothing in this situation harms anyone,
Which is why I tried explaining why I put harm in quotes. I didn't argue she is giving people super cancer by not accepting help or not getting arms
and feetre-attachedHer disability is not a burden on anyone.
Any ONE? sure. Not what I'm arguing. It's great that everyone helping her has the time and ability and desire to help her.
You seem to have started arguing against a phantom in the middle there
Yeah, anyone with experience is just traumatized and reflexively saying that everyone is just pushing that trauma onto others. You don't know me, you should give me that respect. That's why I made no judgement on her overall character. I don't know that. But the act is obviously selfish.
implied that the only reason to do nice things is so other people like you?
If you break it down like that why not take it all the way? The only reason to help people is because it gives ME feel good brain juice 😈 What about the only reason to help people is to manipulate them into giving me their efforts when I request them 😈 didn't you know, helping people is the most selfish act of all 😈
If you want to know how I feel about "help" is that it is just an inherently good thing to do. I chose my career specifically to help people.
She’s not pushing anyone away.
Good thing it's a fantasy comic.
her learning to accept their aid
Even if I agree with you on everything, how is that supposed to show she isn't acting selfish with her choice from earlier?
Why focus on it?
Because it proves you weren't paying attention.
If you’re ‘sick’ and people take care of you...
She isn't sick. Nobody is taking care of her because she's missing an arm. She's just as capable with one arm as you are with two. She'd receive the same amount of support with or without an extra arm. She could have ten hands, and everyone would still offer theirs to help her at a moment's notice. She doesn't demand it, she just knows it's coming.
I didn’t argue she is giving people super cancer
I didn't say you did. But there's not even an imposition. There's no discomfort. Nobody suffers even a tiny bit. The only difference is the number of arms a woman has. Considering you aren't arguing she's a burden, what "harm" are you implying she's causing?
You should re read what I typed
I did. You said the people helping her feel like she's treating them like feet. They don't. They feel like family. She's treating them like family.
That’s why I made no judgement on her overall character.
You said that her not wanting to accept a gift for free was a result of trauma, and she was pushing people away by remaining in that trauma. There is no trauma. You created a phantom person with a phantom problem to complain about.
If you break it down like that...
But that is what you said. Not all that other strawman bullshit nobody even implied. You said helping people makes them like you. It doesn't. It might, but nobody has to accept help they don't want. Forcing help on someone who doesn't want it can cause problems, or they might see it as a debt they're uncomfortable with, and it can actually be pretty cruel. This is why people have to stress to her that there is never going to be any debt imposed on her and she still feels uncomfortable accepting it.
I hope to fuck that the people you help in your career actually WANT your help.
But the act is obviously selfish.
Even if I agree with you on everything, how is that supposed to show she isn’t acting selfish with her choice from earlier?How? How is turning down regeneration because you think the effort is better spent elsewhere, or offering to pay someone for a dress, selfish? And how is it "obviously" so? How does her choice benefit her or disadvantage anyone else? How is her choice selfish?
You obviously don't care to engage with anything I'm saying, taking the worst possible interpretation possible. Now you're throwing around insults. You don't care to have a conversation. I'm going to take a guess and say it's your attachment to the comic.
Good luck, and I hope your disposition improves.
Oh I see, I misinterpreted, lol
Well I may not be right. The authors intention mayb be it was meant to heartfelt but I haven't read the comics.
Understood, yeah it does appear to be heartfelt, after reading that one posted comic. No worries, imma still read it all
I feel like having family who would cast a spell to regrow your arm is part of having family who will help you, but it wasn't exactly trivial at that point. Regrowing an arm is much more costly than curing blindness or paralysis.