"If you didn't want fascism you should have voted!"

But they did make it worse, their policies led directly to where the US is now.

But they did make it worse, their policies led directly to where the US is now.
It's so fucking ridiculous!
In the past 30 years Dems were in power 2/3 of the time, so they very obviously did contribute to the state of affairs that led to Trump being elected twice!
Or if the country moved rightward regardless of what team the President represents, then it means voting in this system is only ceremonial and completely useless activity.
Either Dems are enablers of Fascists or voting is useless, there's no third option.
- Well biden won by 20 mil and then those votes went away and didnt even go third party. So seems like disenfranchisement than country moving more than moving right.
  
  disenfranchisement
  Which democrats let happen without pushback
  It's also extreme disillusionment. Everyone is checked out and realizes Democrats are genocidal frauds now
  
  Well that's the truth but at least vote third party. If im right then dems will follow the votes. They see 29 mil suddenly happen for third party ill bet my hat they will change tune. Im convinced they go right cause those are the people that vote.
  
  I'm convinced they go right cause those are the people that vote
  You do realise that it's a big part of a politician's job to mobilise the masses to vote?
  
  Soooo Dems won't make it better but least won't make it worse.
  So seems like disenfranchisement
  So the Dems did make it worse by being terrible at running the country during the 20 years they've been in power over the past 30 years?
  They fucked up strategically: creating the material conditions for the rise of Fascism
  and they fucked up tactically by running two terrible candidates who abetted genocide in Gaza, and couldn't even be bothered to promise a feeble social democratic programme (which would be less than the bare minimum), and because of this tactical mistake they've lost to fucking Trump who is very clearly an idiot.
  Calling it a fuckup implies that Democrats actually care about winning elections and developing the country, which is debatable after all these fuckups and all their anti-left rhetoric...
  
  So what's your plan on this?
  
  What do you mean my plan?
  The topic is:
  "Is there such a thing as the ratchet effect?"
  Yes, there is.
  I'm not American, I just hate both the US power elite and the bootlickers making excuses for them. Fuck them all, because they make the world worse for the rest of us...
  I could go on and on about EU neoliberals as well, but that's not the topic at hand, and they are basically behave like vassals to the US anyway

twenty years ago people gave the Dems a super-majority; they used it to lock in the fascist policies of the Bush admin and give a massive hand out the wealthy.

911 kind of destroy any semblance of reason in the country. Everyone was angry. Tried to talk reason? Just look at Dixie chicks and boondocks version of MLK.
- that insane mindset never ended and still goes on to this day. It's why Americans can bomb Yemen for 40 days straight and not even be aware of it. It's why they can kill millions of muslims and arabs in their forever wars and not give a single shit. It's why they can commit genocide
  
  Makes you wonder what else is going on.
- That's your excuse? Seriously?
  "Shame people didn't vote Dem 20 years ago, the gop wouldn't be around!"
  "They did"
  "Yeah, but 9/11 had happened only a decade earlier"
  
  excuse? Hope maybe but now I doubt it with young boys being Tate trolls.
  Naa country hadn’t healed yet for 10 years after. Now? I dont think 911 is a factor but nation has other issues made apparent by Trump.
  
  the islamophobia of the 911 years obviously never went away because we have done multiple anti-muslim genocides and killed millions of muslims since and learned nothing
  
  Yeah I think you are right there but I want believe the sacrifices made for "security" are wearing thin. Wanted to talk about privacy rights 16 years ago and they call you traitor. Least fox news would which is what I watched at the time.
  
  So why did you say "Soooo Dems won’t make it better but least won’t make it worse. If 2 party then easy choice.
  Shame people didnt do this 20 years ago and voted gop out of existence."?
  
  Cause people keep hating on dems instead of seeing dems for what they are. Opportunists Lesser evils than also need to be removed. But GOP is worst they need to go first. We need Truce with dems until gop is gone. then let's go tear them apart. But people keep getting angry and shocked at dems bs and then refuse to vote and let gop win. Which is arguably worst outcome.
  At least vote third party people!
  
  We need Truce with dems until gop is gone.
  Wrong. Aligning yourselves with the "lesser evil" makes you evil as well and compromises your entire project. When you work with the billionaires you don't have the wheel. You will do their bidding and be smeared for their actions. The only way to defeat the two party system is to attack both parties simultaneously, otherwise you are only reifying it by participating in the back-and-forth stalemate
  
  Thats a interesting opinion. romance of three kingdoms approach. Seems way harder than what i want to do which is use dems to crush gop then beytray DNC. Fighting 2 entrenched enemies instead of one seems like a a rough idea to me. If your strategy is to promote third party im afraid that's a hard one to pull off but I support it.
  
  Good luck convincing the Democrats to agree to a truce.
  
  that's everyone frustration. Dems betraying progressives. Its like dealing with loki vs Thanos. Have to use the dnc to maintain status quo so we can promote progressives in meantime. Gop will just push further right and ruin gains.
  
  Democrats also seem perfectly happy to push further right
  
  Yes but in baby steps versus gop "ill ship you off world!" If dnc start pushing stuff like anti gay or anti science agenda then country is f'd and we need to get old faithful out for watermelon cutting or start plumbing services. Cause now im convinced there is no peaceful solution.

Soooo Dems won’t make it better but least won’t make it worse.

Obama oversaw the largest decrease in black household wealth in american history

Not because of housing crisis? I seriously don't know what specifically he did.
- https://jacobin.com/2017/12/obama-foreclosure-crisis-wealth-inequality
  
  From what i read Obama maintained status quo and was not as progressive so the people most to gain from reform became the ones most victimized. He didnt actively do anything good or bad.
  Is having the power and doing nothing worst than someone actively taking it away. I want to say yes but I also think the rapist is worst than the guy that just watched.
  
  he didn't close guantanamo like he promised, and there's a direct throughline from that type of policy to the modern day use of CECOT as a detainment blackbag site. He could have pushed back but he didn't, he gleefully joined the blob. So now the fascist blob controls everything
  
  So it seems you feel dems are going to make things better vs me saying they won't make things significantly worse?
  The point is to never let ratchet go right at any cost.
  But Maybe yall are right and its all too late Trump will push the country sooo far right and next dem will keep it going to no ones surprise. Guess we will find out together.
  
  Bailing out the banks was an actively bad thing. That's what gave the banks the power to barrel through with the rampant foreclosures that annihilated PoC wealth.
  This is like saying FDR was great because he saved capitalism from destroying itself. If they had done nothing at all it would've been better in the long run because the crisis would have destroyed capitalism and we could finally move on to a system that puts human need above the acculumation of endless wealth.
  Besides, this is completely ignoring the pillaging of Libya that took place under Obama, where Libya went from a forward-looking (yet flawed) democratic country to a failed state ruled by human trafficking operations and various statelets that control oil fields. It's the only place with open air slave trafficking markets. It ignores the occupation of Afghanistan that also took place under his watch. The expansion of the surveillance state, Guantanamo, the US-Mexico border camps, the support of Israel during 2012's Gaza bombings, the drone strikes in Pakistan and several other atrocities.
  
  I thought the same back then but I'm not sure if that's entirely the right call now. I think we both agree None of those banks should have gotten the parachute in that form. I think now they should have stiffer punishments and guidelines but of course even if they did I bet govt wouldn't have followed through anyway.

but at least won't make it worse.

Any arguments for harm reduction were gunned down in the streets of Gaza.

"Gaza? never heard of it.
Lalalalalalalallaal cant hear you. Head in sand.
Genocide? Innocent lives?
No no no insurgents even that baby and those reporting and uh its in the Torah..."
I could do narcissist prayer but It disgusts me to go any further.

No, my friend, you're wrong. The Washington Democrats do make it worse. They (most of them) are willing participants in making life worse for the average American, and they know it, and they don't care.

Well we know it. A few dinos are collaborating for power trips. I recall a few ruining quite a few plans.

The function of a ratchet is to make an object go in one direction more easily. Democrats fulfill a function in propeling the country rightward. This was arguably not true 80 years ago but post-Reagan they are part of a process of rightward movement. Voting for and legitimizing them is moving the country right and making things worse.

I get not voting dem so please vote for a third party. And do not sleep on it.
Just never vote gop.
Im not hoping for dems to change im hoping they stay status quo long enough for gop to die.
- i can assure you the commies are not implying you should vote GOP
  
  They going third party? If so bless them for it. As long as they dont skip the vote at all.

???

25 years ago the Democrats won the election against Bush and then Gore gave up. They personally handed the presidency over to the republicans. Democrats like to lose even when they win. Then 21 years ago the Dems ran on a platform of "we'll kill Muslims more efficiently than the Republicans."

Democrats don't want to win. Their primary purpose is to prevent a left from existing.

Also don't forget Nancy Pelosi's statement about the country needing a "strong republican party" last year. These people are ghouls and aren't to be trusted.

Oh bet they need a strong gop. Of course they do they need thier boogie man. Without the gop guess who's the most right wing popular party now? Can't rack in that donation money without them.

Don’t make me tap the sign again

You need to zoom out. Imagine you're looking back at this moment from 100 years in the future. If people said "the Dems won't make it better but at least they won't make it worse" and just kept the system going, do you think it will ever lead to progress? Will the whole system ever improve?

You need to look for a solution outside of that system. Stop looking for lesser evils in the ballot box. First, look to the people immediately around you and try to join local organizations that might be directly working to improve their conditions (soup kitchens, women's shelters, etc). Then, organize labor: figure out how to join a union, if there isn't one read the IWW (or any other big union near you) manual on organizing your workplace and find support to start organizing your workplace. Then from there, your objective should be to take the workers' struggle to the national and international stage. Change doesn't come from the ballot box, it comes from building alternative power structures ourselves.

I agree with all you said. No it won't improve just give time for gop to age out. Since they are actively making things worse. Least dems aren't trying that hard to deport people or remove renewables.
Though I think change could have happened if 20 mil people voted third party or for Harris instead of sleeping in. Seeing Trump lose twice would have been a great catalyst for changing gop.
- Least dems aren't trying that hard to deport people or remove renewables.
  Biden deported more people than Trump 1 did. Biden placed tariffs on solar panels and renewables made in China and continued Trump's trade war. ICE was never abolished or defunded, the police were never defunded. His campaign rode on the back of the 2020 protests and then smothered it in its infancy with a pillow.
  
  Well you right on that. sorry I wasn't clear. I mean deport us citizens not just migrants. If trump does deport us citizens wanna bet a dem will not undo it?
  No familiar on the solar tarrifs biden did so I cant speak on it.
  
  I mean deport us citizens not just migrants.
  "I meant deport humans! Not mere foreigners"

The problem with having 365 million people or so in a sick society that encouraged and rewards destroying each other is that things get worse automatically.

Dems doing nothing makes things worse. Reps doing nothing makes things worse. Its a prisoners dilemma where the only winning move is to kill the cops and hope for the best.

If al gore won we'd have still invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, it would just be in bush jrs first term in 2004 that we invade Iraq.

You are Probably right though im sure gore would have pushed for renewables. Thats like his whole thing.